There is a discussion paper out by NSW Maritime on an overhaul to the rules surrounding the use of lifejackets when completing watersports. One of the proposals is that kiters would be required by law to wear a life jacket when kiting in the ocean (no matter how close to the beach you are). This doesn't seem sensible to me - there are plenty of times when a life jacket would not be helpful and might even be a hindrance.
YOU have an opportunity to make a comment on the NSW Maritime website. Remember - to be effective your comments should be clear, polite and appear to come from a "reasonable" person.

If enough people make sensible comments it might not be too late to change the proposal. That is the idea of consultation isn't it?!

surely this would be like telling a surfer to wear a PDF?
and that aint going to happen

If anyone find the link, please post here

I already wear one and don't find it bothersome and apparently that makes me gay

All,

Discussion paper can be found at the following location:

www.rms.nsw.gov.au/maritime/index.html

For those that don't want to click on the link, the following is the proposed changes.

Proposed Changes
It is proposed the minimum requirement would be for a lifejacket to be worn:
? by children less than 10 years old in a vessel less than 4.8 metres in length;
? by children less than 10 years old when underway in the open area of a boat less than 8 metres;
? when waterskiing or wakeboarding;
? when in a vessel less than 4.8 metres in heightened risk situations such as at night, when alone, and on ocean waters;
? when operating an off-the-beach sail craft in ocean waters;
? on small recreational craft such as kayaks and sailboards, at all times in ocean waters and when more than 100 metres from shore in sheltered waters;
? when in a vessel less than 4.8m on alpine lakes; and
? at times of 'Skipper Judgement and Direction' - this approach would give a skipper the right to require passengers to wear a lifejacket if, for example, a change in the weather heightened the risk of a routine boating trip.

........

Further in the article the following is stated:
Proposed changes:
Kite Surfing >100m from shore in sheltered waters & all times in ocean waters


KR

This was my response on their site:



I strongly disagree with the proposed new regulations but only in respect to two of my hobbies being sailboarding and kitesurfing.

I choose to wear a PFD when sailboarding in SOME locations. However, it would be far more dangerous to wear a PFD in surf conditions than to not wear one. If you are seperated from your gear, you are far safer to be able to dive under waves as a surfer can do, then to get tossed around in the breaking wave with a PFD. It is also far more difficult to successfully swim yourself out of currents or rips with a lifejacket, or to make ground back to your gear, as they are quite cumbersome. With a lifejacket on you can easily end up further out to sea then when you started, making the situation worse.

There is also a further concern with sailboarding in relation to the use of a PFD. It can be a regular occurrence that during a sailboard crash, the rider can end up underneath the sail, submerged under the water. Further to this they may still be attached to their harness line. If caught in this situation, breath hold time is critical to work yourself out. When wearing a PFD, it makes it incredibly hard to try to release yourself, dive down deep and swim clear of the sail as the PFD constantly forces you up against the sail which is still fully submerged, with the reality being that the PFD is assisting in trying to drown you.

I believe a PFD in small boats makes sense - but definitely not compulsory wearing for sailboarding and kiting given the real danger whilst practising these hobbies in surf or heavy chop conditions.

Mr float said...

I already wear one and don't find it bothersome and apparently that makes me gay

Dude, I put you down as being one of the more intelligent users of this forum.

It takes 5 min to fill out the survey - submisions close on the 7th of January

rloemker said...

Mr float said...

I already wear one and don't find it bothersome and apparently that makes me gay

Dude, I put you down as being one of the more intelligent users of this forum.

you've gotta be kidding

rloemker said...

Munter said...

There is a discussion paper out by NSW Maritime on an overhaul to the rules surrounding the use of lifejackets when completing watersports. One of the proposals is that kiters would be required by law to wear a life jacket when kiting in the ocean (no matter how close to the beach you are). This doesn't seem sensible to me - there are plenty of times when a life jacket would not be helpful and might even be a hindrance.
YOU have an opportunity to make a comment on the NSW Maritime website. Remember - to be effective your comments should be clear, polite and appear to come from a "reasonable" person.

If enough people make sensible comments it might not be too late to change the proposal. That is the idea of consultation isn't it?!

I really don't see why people complain when they get told to do something that can actually save their lives!

Why try and change the proposal. Even if they did bring it in, you're still not going to wear one. So quite complaining and cop the fine if you get busted.

I bet you are one of those people who also complains about speed cameras because they catch you speeding!

man, that is a stupid thing to say – read the forum before posting stupid **** – the reason people are complaining is because it is dangerous – there not complaining because it will save their live, what do you take these people for. A decision has been made by people who don’t understand the possible dangers of wearing a PDF. If they told you it would be safer to kite with a plastic bag over your head would you do that? And there aren’t that many kites that could fork out $160 fine every time they go out for a kite.

Tom83 said...

rloemker said...

Munter said...

There is a discussion paper out by NSW Maritime on an overhaul to the rules surrounding the use of lifejackets when completing watersports. One of the proposals is that kiters would be required by law to wear a life jacket when kiting in the ocean (no matter how close to the beach you are). This doesn't seem sensible to me - there are plenty of times when a life jacket would not be helpful and might even be a hindrance.
YOU have an opportunity to make a comment on the NSW Maritime website. Remember - to be effective your comments should be clear, polite and appear to come from a "reasonable" person.

If enough people make sensible comments it might not be too late to change the proposal. That is the idea of consultation isn't it?!

I really don't see why people complain when they get told to do something that can actually save their lives!

Why try and change the proposal. Even if they did bring it in, you're still not going to wear one. So quite complaining and cop the fine if you get busted.

I bet you are one of those people who also complains about speed cameras because they catch you speeding!

man, that is a stupid thing to say – read the forum before posting stupid **** – the reason people are complaining is because it is dangerous – there not complaining because it will save their live, what do you take these people for. A decision has been made by people who don’t understand the possible dangers of wearing a PDF. If they told you it would be safer to kite with a plastic bag over your head would you do that? And there aren’t that many kites that could fork out $160 fine every time they go out for a kite.

True, my argument wasn't very clear. I get like that sometimes. Let me start again?

Who is it dangerous to; the more experienced rider who is confident enough to not wear a PFD? Or the novice who is learning and needs that extra bit of safety, but doesn't think to wear one? These changes are targeted to the "majority" of water users. So how do you dissect the level of individual riders' skill and say you guys have to wear one, and you guys don't have to wear one. Most of the more experienced kiters aren't going to wear a PFD regardless of the conditions either because they are more confident, or it's not safe for their type of riding.

So what I meant to say is that why change something that could save a majority of lives to suit only a minority of users?

Would you have a problem wearing one in flat water conditions? Because almost everyone will have to wear one based on this require (i.e who goes less than 100m from shore?

"on small recreational craft such as kayaks and sailboards, at all times in ocean waters and when more than 100 metres from shore in sheltered waters."

Not that I would want one, but a PFD that infates would be the go if things went down this way. Half you ****s wear boardies or T shirts with slogans, I have even seen an instructor from Bulli back in the day wearing a motorcross jersy over his wetty. You would probably never use the PFD, but the ones whinging about it being constricting probably wear things over their wetty for trying to be stylish. Maybe the solution to this problem would be PFD shorts, not jackets. I'm sure you gumbies from Dolls point would buy them by the truckload if they came out

Any of you guys spoken to your state association regarding this issue ?

It would seem they are the ones that you should get to represent NSW kiters as a whole and put your submissions forward..... the above post was an excellent example of the kind of written submissions that should be made.

The association should be able to apply for an exemption for kiters etc....... as a group.....policy makers are far more likely to listen to a body that represents a large number of people and the specific needs of their sport as opposed to individuals and the policy makers perception of their individual needs.

Remember this is what you pay your memberships for ... ( a small part insurace the rest goes to the associations to represent kite surfers, keep beach access open etc.... and I would say this fits in.

Maybe NSWKSA are already onto this,,,,if not let... them know

Submission as follows:

"My comments are primarily directed towards kiteboarding. The major problem is that there is presently no suitable product on the market to enable compliance with this regulation, regardless of the individual's intention to comply.

Kitesurfer's are attached to the kite via a harness which comes in two varieties, with the following approximations.
a) 70% waist harnesses, that wrap around a kiter's back/upper torso
b) 30% seat harnesses, worn around the waist, lower back and rear. (usually beginners/intermediate)

In the case of b) seat harnesses, there are 1 or 2 only PFD approved products which can sit over the seat harness (poorly) - these deteriorate greatly the rider's mobility, which can likely lead to accident, particularly on when on land, prior to entering the water (highest risk).

In the case of a) waist harnesses, the situation is substantially worse. There are presently no PFD's on the market that can fit under, or around the harness itself. (I invite NSW Maritime to contact "Kitepower" or a similar retailer of products in this industry to confirm this is the case www.kitepower.com.au)

Accordingly, the proposed changes would create a regulation that it is not practically possible for people(kiteboarders) to comply with, regardless of their intention to comply.

I therfore recommend, either specific removal of the provisions with regard to kiteboarders, or alternatively the regulation be removed entirely from the proposed changes. "


Steve - please remember the free plug for when i come in next month to buy my new switchy.

(and now the 70/30 debate will no doubt start...)

Hopefully, we as a collective group can get a good result. If not will we be wearing singlets over our pfd's to match our boardies? Seriously though the more of us that comment and bring up the other side to wearing a pfd in the surf, maybe NSW maritime will listen to the numbers.




The proposed new lifejacket regulations for kitesurfers in ocean waters should be removed. As a surfer of over 30 years and kitesurfer for 10 years the compulsory regulation of wearing pfd's in the surf increases the level of danger to the user. For the same reason that surfers don't wear pfd's, (except when tow surfing huge waves) kitesurfers too want the ability to submerse themselves to avoid a wave and to move their arms freely. A pfd would cause the kitesurfer to become like a cork in a bath tub, subject to the forces of the wave and wherever it may take them. Which along a lot of our coastline could have dire results.
During basic training courses one of the requirements is that students are taught to self rescue themselves by using their kite, which is inflatable in most cases. They do this by a method of winding the lines and getting to the kite and then steering the kite and sailing out of trouble. If they come to the surf in this situation they simply release the kite and let the waves take it to the beach and swim the remainder. If I have to swim in surf which I have done most of my life, I definitely would choose not to wear a pfd.
Please seek informed opinions from professionals within the kitesurfing fraternity before approving this regulation.
Thankyou (south coast NSW)

This isn't such a stupoid thing and there are always ways around things.

18ft Skiff sailors whilst racing are allowed not to wear life jackets as they are usually found upside down and getting off a trapese upside down with a life jacket pulling you up is hard.

PFD is also open to debate. it's not a life jacket that has to support your limp body and head above the water with the pillow behind your head. It has to provide a minimum level of boyancy determined by your weight.

I'm sure that harness manufactures could if the boyancy requirement is low enough cater for the requirement for PFD and then your covered without looking like a gimp.

Knee jerk reactions are not the answer, in a lot of circumstances a PFD could be a handy thing, when learning, kiting off shore, doing downwinders, kiting from tassie to Melbourne! (they did wear them). There are also times when one will be an issue, big surf, looking cool and getting a tan.

I would think that we'll need to look at the stats of drowning kiters and kiters that have needed to be rescued due to inadiquate boyancy to make a good case. Personally after a few big wipeouts in big surf at Longy I've thought about wearing one, problem is there are no designs out there that are perfect. maybe I'll make on and make a million $$$$$

I will bring this up at the next NSWKBA meeting and see where we end up.