yer agreeded some kook ripped my kite the other day!

would the IKO honour their insurance policy if something went wrong?

Has the IKO changed it's policy in the last couple of years in regard to safe upper wind ranges to teach in due to bow/hybrid kites and "100% depower"? my IKO manual is 2006.

Swiss girlie for a good time...ha, I don't believe it

Kitehard said...

Hey Flux,

or if the student and/or instructor feels they are no longer comfortable in their ability to fly the kite, this can and has happened in the past in much less than 30 knots.

The student and or instructor has the right to postpone a lesson at any time if they are not comfortable.

The issue with that statement (as highlighted) is that students-particularly novices-have no idea of how quickly sh!t can happen and things turn into a kitemare-far better for the instructor to call it off-IMO 28 knots is too strong for a novice lesson.

If anyone has reservations about lesson safety, they should ring the school and discuss it. Raising it here on a public forum smells of possible ulterior motives.

Opinions are many, assumptions are frequently inaccurate and a good business name can be sullied by anonymous posts on a forum.

No-one should have to defend their reputation here on seabreeze.

live by the sword, die by the sword...
wanna use this forum as a means to communicate your business, pimp your suff etc etc, then i say be prepared. the comments posted here are genuine concerns.. nothing worse than someone making money whilst pooing in everyone elses nest, we have a right to be protective of our areas

theDoctor said...

live by the sword, die by the sword...
wanna use this forum as a means to communicate your business, pimp your suff etc etc, then i say be prepared. the comments posted here are genuine concerns.. nothing worse than someone making money whilst pooing in everyone elses nest, we have a right to be protective of our areas

Im going to have to agree with this, there is no deliberate assasination going on in this thread, just genuine concerns. Goes for all schools out there, where do you draw the line? Personally I think over 25 is pushing it. Just as long as it doesn't turn into a slag fest I don't think there is anything wrong with a bit of criticism. I think pretty much every retailer on seabreeze has copped their share of flak, they understand it is part of the process.

You can't just censor people opinions because they don't fit yours. Plus what would contacting the offending business achieve? They have already ignored the concern effectively.. whilst explaining thier decision.

We use the same system as Darren, Both Instructor and Student are told to pipe up when things get a little extreme. Doesn't matter who says it first - as soon as it's said we hit the release and head back to the beach.
We have a 3m Ozone Light2 for windy days, a lot of kite companies make 3m kites these days for this kind of wind. Small kites are great for teaching on in high winds, it makes everything easy.
Also, AKS is probably the most experienced and well organized school in Aus, if anyone can be out there in this kind of wind, its Darren's instructors.

oh my god, one genuine question and look what happens, people have very short memories and are very quick to have a pop. Great question Flux, equally well answered Darren, my question, personnal issues aside, is there "anyone" who does more or deserves more respect than darren and his crew, always there for advice and help, well, there may be but they don't put themselfs out there!!!!!! Before you think it, no i don't fly at pinners, yes i have met Darren and the first thing you realise is his passion for the sport, like him or not the sport needs more like him.
As for the comment about how easy it is to get the official instructor rating, i suggest you do your homework puppett, there's no such thing, but most would have an iko level, try checking out the two senior instructors at Aks !!!!!!!!!

waveslave said...

Kitehard said...

We stop lessons when it starts to hit the thirty knot mark

It's ironic.
Check the beaches whenever it's blowing nuke,
and you'll only ever see a small number of crew.....
but go down to the local kite-dragging school and there will be a zoo of newbies dicking around in 30 knots.
lol.

30 knot cut off for beginners ? Surely not motivated by $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Spot on dave, good point, well articulated

Horse back riding is the riskiest sport, after living of course.

Spacemonkey! said...

Im going to have to agree with this, there is no deliberate assasination going on in this thread, just genuine concerns. Goes for all schools out there, where do you draw the line? Personally I think over 25 is pushing it. Just as long as it doesn't turn into a slag fest I don't think there is anything wrong with a bit of criticism. I think pretty much every retailer on seabreeze has copped their share of flak, they understand it is part of the process.

Maybe not deliberate assasination, but definately some sh1tstirring, nothing surprising there though.
If you are not an instructor, then your opinion on what is or is not too much wind does not really cut it.
Like slave said below, often when the wind meter is bumping 30, a majority of the kiters get off the water, unless they have some protected flat water.
However that does not mean a competent instructor, and an equally competent student need to quit, contrary to his LOL opinion.

If the instructor/school has the correct sized kite, why let a student miss the opportunity to keep learning and to also learn about the power of the wind??
Beyond 30 knots is where we will pull the pin even though we teach offshore, it just gets too uncomfortable in the boat, and the student in the water is just battling big chop and lots of stinging salt water spray in the eyes.

Spacemonkey! said...

You can't just censor people opinions because they don't fit yours. Plus what would contacting the offending business achieve? They have already ignored the concern effectively.. whilst explaining thier decision.

Darren was not asking for censorship where did that come from?
Your next sentence is where you need to watch your tiptaptyping too, spaceforumpolicemonkey.
Darren did not ignore anyones post, he anwered them, and very well and logically too.
Darren has 8-9 years of teaching experience, and has learned to not ignore any genuine concern, for sure.
To imply otherwise is a typical negative, slagging, comment that you are famous on this forum for. Your negative comment says more about you than it does about anything or anyone else.

I've known Darren for 10+ years and he is a very approachable and reasonable person, if anyone actually has a genuine concern they could easily approach him and I'm confident they would get a fair hearing. If there was an issue Darren would respond in a positive way.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve

Actually Steve I think you misunderstand my point. If I was to ring you up and tell you that I disagree with you teaching in that much wind, you are going to give your justifications and stick to your guns. A forum post is a far more likely to actually change the situation than a private phone call because it incorporates more peoples opinion.

I have been kiting since 2002 and have taught 3-4 mates myself, I think I have at least some idea what good learning conditions are. Strong wind is often punchier in the gusts, the kites move a lot more around in the sky and turn a hell of a lot quicker. It is very easy for things to rapidly turn to **** on a small kite in lots of wind compared to a 12m in 15 knots. How often is wind >25 knots? not very often in Australia. Is it too much to ask for them to hold back a day for nicer learning conditions which will be far more productive and more like real kiting than getting your arse hauled around on a trainer kite. I'm not necessary saying it is UNSAFE but certainly not as SAFE as in <25 knots. Personally if I am teaching someone I leave it to another day if it is over 20 knots. For schools with the right equipment I reckon 25 knots is fair game. But the days between 25-30 are few and far between, IMO it's all about the $$$ in those days. My OPINION on teaching people on general, not a assasination of any business. I reckon demo days are good in 30+ knots though ey!

When you teach kitesurfing in a windy city......
you must have a plan B.
When you are in the kitedragging business, you can't afford to ignore wind, any wind.
You can't sit around in nukewind getting sandblasted while you wait for the perfect 18 knot day.
Kitehard's plan B is hooking-up a newbie to a 5m kite attached to 15m strings.
It's a smart plan.
It's nothing like real-world kiting.....
but it's cost effective.