Newbies kiting Pinnaroo

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Kitehard
Kitehard
WA
2782 posts
WA, 2782 posts
4 Nov 2008 11:37am
Hi Guys,

This will be my final post on this thread as it is growing a little tiresome. I'll explain a few things this last time for those that don't understand the workings of a professional school.

For a start, Australian Kiteboarding School is owned and operated by Australia's only two IKO Examiners; myself, Darren Marshall (owner) and Ed Teo (School Manager). Between the two of us we would have logged almost 3000 hours. We only operate with the most experienced, IKO trained, Level 2, professional instructors and after seeking instructors from Australia, had to go off shore to find the right people, who BTW are excellent instructors.

About Lessons
There is something to be learned in all types of conditions and all lessons, providing they are conducted safely with appropriate equipment, appropriate measures are taken to ensure student safety, and by experienced instructors well trained and experienced in their vocation. A 14m kite in 15 knots has more power than a 5m kite in 30 knots, however the speed is obviously a factor. An untrained noob will not react fast enough in either situation if the sh1t hits the fan if not trained correctly.

There are schools that teach in sub 12 knots all day, every day. A 15 knots day is considered windy and they close the school so the instructors can go kiting themselves (it is such a rarity). These schools use specialised kites and equipment to adapt to the conditions and they produce good lessons for their wind range. Is there something students can learn in flying kites from 6-12 knots? Yes, there definately is! Light wind kite flying is technical and requires a good knowledge of kite flying characteristics. Does it prepare them for stronger conditions or prepare them for safety in stronger winds? No, it doesn't.

There are some schools that teach in 25-35 knot winds (such as Spain and Maui). These are obviously strong wind schools. Their equipment is specialised, their techniques are specialised and their lesson plan is adapted to the conditions. Is there something for students to learn in strong conditions? Yes of course, provided the lesson is conducted with right gear, environment, techniques and safety equipment. Safety is hammered in and usually the kite power is demonstrated by the instructor before the student is allowed to fly the kite so the student is aware of what they are getting in to. This creates cautious riders!

They usually start on small trainer kites to learn to steer first, then graduate to a larger kite. The student learns more about safety and kite handling as well as precautionary measures. Does this prepare them for strong wind kiting in the future? Of course it does, and makes them a better safer kiter in the long run.

There is something to learn from every wind strength and yes, it is important and worth learning, provided the student is kept safe and the lesson managed by experienced instructors with the right gear and adapted lesson plan.

How much credence should an experienced school which has taught several thousand hours safely in conditions ranging from 10-30 knots give, to someone who has no formal training in the discipline of teaching kitesurfing, who has spent a couple of hours with mates, most likely on their own kite, with no safety equipment, no first aid gear, no lesson plan, no insurance, no permits and most likely no mention of anything about self rescue and deep water pack down and many other safety related steps? How safe is that lesson?

How do I know this? I know this because we teach loads of students who have come back from long hiatus after being injured whilst being taught by friends "doing them a favour". Please don't do your friends any more favours! Many have been hurt and don't come back, some do, but were once bitten, twice shy. Rarely if ever do they know self rescue.

A Monkey can be taught to teach someone to kitesurf (apparently he has ), but not to be an independent kiter who can take care of themselves and make decisions on their own in times of crisis or indecision. Just because you can kite doesn't mean you know how to teach kiting safely. Your limited knowledge on the subject of professional lessons makes it hard for any professional instructor or school to take your opinions seriously.

If you or anyone can show us safer ways to teach in wind strengths up to 30 knots, we are all ears and will be grateful to you. We are always keen to improve our safety, and should we be able to use your ideas and implement them, we'll pay you for your ideas in store credit.

Our school was and still is, based on the IKO method of training, but has evolved in our teaching techniques through 8 years of teaching experience. We also adapt every time new gear comes out, making the best use of the latest safety systems. Every time this happens, our lessons get safer.

8 Years ago, teaching in 20 knots on a 2-line 5m kite was very dangerous, today it is far safer than you can imagine.

So thanks for your opinions, they are acknowledged, but until you know what you are talking about, we'll take your opinions with a grain of salt. Airing your uninformed opinions on a public forum in an effort to discredit our school is doing you more damage than us.

Cheers and good winds,

Darren Marshall
Australian Kiteboarding School (est 2000)


Bigwavedave
Bigwavedave
QLD
2057 posts
QLD, 2057 posts
4 Nov 2008 8:09pm
touche
daggy
daggy
WA
528 posts
WA, 528 posts
7 Nov 2008 12:46am
spray that bug, Dave!
getfunky
getfunky
WA
4485 posts
WA, 4485 posts
7 Nov 2008 11:09am
Bigwavedave said...

Reading this post has made me think.

We resent anyone trying to make a profit out of this sport.

We hate the shops trying to make a buck, we hate schools doing lessons and getting more people into the sport. We hate beginners playing in the water where we used to play when learning.

Hypocritical? YES

Who taught you? Where did you practice? Where did you buy your gear?

Newbies keep the sport alive. Share the love. Stoked smiles are contagious.






Dave is on the money..

I reckon high 26+ knots always feels like it blowing at least 30+. If your out on a 9m or similar you are bound to think the newbs will be out of thier comfort zone. Pop YOURSELF onto a 5m and things may feel far less dodgy.

Still 30kts is a sensible cut off, cause when it is a true 30kts in Perth then it is a little unusual and serious wind hitting the place. Also the gusts generally get a bit freakier(larger variation) compared to the gusts in the mid-high 20kts range.

For my 2c I don't think the initial question was posted by Flux as a rant or attack, but may be better sent PM unless there has been consistant dodgy actions (which I don't think anyone is suggesting) by the school. It was answered well too - so end of prob really...

steven83
steven83
WA
19 posts
WA, 19 posts
7 Nov 2008 4:12pm
Can anyone explain?

I was riding my 12m Switchblade 3 (75kgs) in 15-17 kn winds. I rode a 9m RRD Hypertype 2 last season which never had this problem. Everything was fine for about half an hour when a gust came when my kite was at 12:00 and my kite started to flutter violently and spin out of control. I manged to untwist the lines and get the kite back up but it must have been inverted because when it came up it was super powered. So I released and got it back to shore.

When I got back to shore I noticed that it was slightly under inflated (but not really that much). Do you think that was the problem?

Cheers
Steve
Fooosh
Fooosh
WA
563 posts
WA, 563 posts
7 Nov 2008 7:40pm
Respect to Darren and co for continuing to try to address some 'unfair in public forum' statements. I think it is good that the discussion was had tho, especially as it stems from people's concerns about the safety (and reputation) of our sport.

Darren, I wouldn't worry about having to 'defend' your reputation as such (est 2000?). Any doubters should speak to Darren directly.
Kitehard
Kitehard
WA
2782 posts
WA, 2782 posts
7 Nov 2008 11:41pm
steven83 said...

Can anyone explain?

I was riding my 12m Switchblade 3 (75kgs) in 15-17 kn winds. I rode a 9m RRD Hypertype 2 last season which never had this problem. Everything was fine for about half an hour when a gust came when my kite was at 12:00 and my kite started to flutter violently and spin out of control. I manged to untwist the lines and get the kite back up but it must have been inverted because when it came up it was super powered. So I released and got it back to shore.

When I got back to shore I noticed that it was slightly under inflated (but not really that much). Do you think that was the problem?

Cheers
Steve


Hi Steven83,

The lack of pressure would have been caused by the cooling of the air in the leading edge as the cold wind blew over the wet dacron of the leading edge. This creates a cooling, almost airconditioning effect and we all know that cold air is more dense and contracts from the original warm air you filled the kite with (Pumps creating pressured air create heat).

We note this phenomenon all the time with the school kites as they get dunked a bit. Ever heard of a "Coolgardie Safe"? Same principal. and Yes it is possibly partly responsible for your kites eratic behaviour.

Hope this helps,

Good winds,

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