Hi Darren,

Understand where you are coming from; as a regular of Pinnaroo myself I'm extremely concerned about any "clashes" between users of the area.

This is a very difficult situation to be in for kiters, and here are some of my thoughts on your comments.

I think it is very unfair to say to kiters that they can't use Pinnaroo at the weekend. For most people the only time they can go is at the weekend.

Many times I have been down to Pinnaroo when the the sailing club have been there; and it's not just kiters they have to contend with, it's windsurfers, jet skis, kayaks, swimmers and boats. Even the Channel 9 Rescue boat will sail through their fleet when they are racing!

*If* an exclusion zone was to be introduced it should be for all water users, not just kiters.

There are many occasions when only a couple of cats turn up and they don't end up racing. This means that kiters could have gone out.

I think that Whitfords Beach (dog beach) is far too dangerous to kite from. The amount of people, dogs, horses etc would quickly end in a nasty accident. Plus if you get blown downwind you are going to end up going through the sailing club area.

Mullaloo is a possibility, but there tends to be more "beach goers" down there. I haven't sailed there, so am not fully aware about how crowded it is. But if kiters were to move to a different area then it won't be long before somewhere else gets congested.

I can certainly understand the sailing club's concerns as I have witnessed a couple of incidents involving kiters and I agree there is a certain lack of respect of a minority, but not the majority.

As you rightly say, we want to try and avoid the council or C.A.L.M getting involved and come to an arrangement with the sailing club ourselves.

For me, a compromise would be that kiters don't use the area that the sailing club race in, but this should only be whilst they are racing. IMO this should be for all water users and not just kiters; maybe this has to come from a council/C.A.L.M level (but do we want them involved?)

As already mentioned there are many occasions when the sailing club do not race; it would be useful if they had flags/signs and sounded a horn to indicate that they are now racing so that other water users could vacate the race area. If they don't race then the water should be available for everyone.

We can also advise kiters not to setup within 50m of the cats; though this should be normal practice anyway.

I'm very keen to be as proactive as possible; and maybe this should be taken to WAKSA where their experience with dealing with such issues can be used to quickly resolve any potential conflicts.

I am attending a WAKSA meeting this week and would be more than happy to raise the issue and start working with all the parties involved.

Thanks for initially smoothing things over with the sailing club and bringing the problem to everyone's attention.

Lets try and move forward quickly on this.

Cheers

OwieB

Top stuff Darren. All positive.

I'll request to have the issue discussed at the WAKSA meeting and seek their guidance on how best to move forward with this so that we can maintain Pinnaroo as a kiting spot without upsetting any other beach users.

As Kitehard has already requested it would be good to have some feedback from other PP kiters so we can take everyones concerns and/or suggestions into consideration.

I think putting a sign up that lets people know that they racing and to be courteous and try to steer clear of the course should be enough. I think some of the new commers and tourists are probably unaware of whats going on. The majority of kiters at PP know that they have always been there and keep clear.......why some one wouldn't is beyond me? Its pretty obvious.

Darren, please stop trying to turn Pinnaroo into another Pelican Point or Cottesloe, with people jumping up and down over nothing. There are no issues at Pinnaroo Point. Everyone who sails up there is very relaxed and kiters, windsurfers,fisherman, swimmers and boaters never have any trouble and respect each others right to use the beach.
I've been sailing there for years and have found that everyone gives right of way to the cats (its gotta hurt to run into one).
As for numbers increasing, they have been consistent for the last three years. Or maybe you are looking to start up a school and have a vested interest in regulating the location.
If the sailing club really has an issue perhaps they should put up a sign advising all beach uses to keep clear. But, as you say, they didn't approach you and as far as I know hav'nt approached any other kiters.
I keep going back to Pinnaroo, not for the conditions because its often sh**, but for the good crew and relaxed encouraging attitude.
Keep your hands off it.

Hi I have started at PP this season and have been pretty happy ewith the vibe and people so far.
However I was there last weekend when there was a girl/guy combo being really dangerous with their's and other kites (showing off on the beach lofting, riding tandem, squeezing newbies out of space on the water/land etc etc). I saw these and a couple of others to my amazement sail in + out very close indeed to the yachts racing past, which surpised me as I knew nothing of the club and racing proir to this and this thread.
At the time I thought it a ridiculous risk probably designed to impress the boaties (hardly I imagine).

Fact: nice boaties are likely to entertain the council/authorities attention and favour.

Fact: "extreme" sports people are all dangerous and should be removed from public spaces. Actually this is only a fact in the eyes of people that receive complaints from nice yachties and other respectable types, but there you go... this perception is real and not going away in a hurry.

Any efforts by those trying to smooth the waters for the rest of us should be loudly applauded and good work for jumping in early.

The only shame is that when these mentioned earlier were "performing" on the beach etc no-one from the more experianced brigade bothered to approach them and at least ask them to move their "all about me show" up or down the beach out of the main danger and take off area. This was very dissapointing to see that having good kite skills (but no brain or respect for others skill levels) to some means not having to behave couteously and safely around other users.

Good on you guys for at least trying to accomadate others and disproving that we are all "extreme" idiots.

Getfunky

Hi guys and girls,

I never meant to piss anyone off and I'm certainly not trying to raise a huge issue or bring any unwanted attention from council or C.A.L.M.

The response from the cats was very real and it is obvious you have never spoken to them or you would be aware of their attitude to kiters that sail through their fleet. There is no issue with the local or regular kiters as they all ride respectfully and in general are a very considerate crew from what I have observed, it is a message to the crew though to try and help educate the few who "blow in" or are from overseas and as someone else mentioned are unaware of the racing.

The amount of people who go there to learn is on the increase as everyone is getting pissed off with the river and the catastrophes that happen in that area. PP is one of the two or three spots around Perth that offer flat water and wide beaches, usually uncrowded, except for weekends.

Gees even today I saw a learner crash his kite onto a guy with a blue Airush Lift Pro whilst he was setting up. The guy wasn't trained and was holding all four lines as he walked toward the kite which was lifting off the ground and powering up. This is an issue!

I'm sorry Ray and Stoff have a negetive attitude, reread my previous texts and you will see there is no maliciousness in what I was told by the Cats crew, just a word to change the behaviours of the few while it is not a problem, so that the many, don't have to fight hard in the future when it is. An ounce of simple prevention is always worth a pound of cure.




Good winds and Peace

Simply getting fed up with the 'KITE POLICE' imposing their views on everyone else. We are becoming our own worst enemy with all this b.s. Talk like this thread is going to kill a location alot quicker than 1 or 2 rogue kiters doing the wrong thing. Pinnaroo locals dont need or want others stirring up trouble but would encourage everyone who sees people doing the wrong thing to speak to them IMMEDIATELY to avoid topics like this.

I agree - stoff how is the wind on Mars these days????
Just to add, newbies are not the only ones who need wording up. Why is it experianced guys/gals get away with murder because being sponsored seems to create instant cred with no respect needed for anyone elses safety??
Prevention IS the best cure
Good luck Kitehard and those who give a stuff for the bigger picture

Getfunky

In support of Darren, if anyone talks to him, i'm sure you'd agree that he's a pretty chilled out dude and wouldn't want to create any problems for his own entertainment.

I think there will eventually be issues at all locations where there are more than just kiters using the place. It's really important that people don't put their heads in the sand about 'potential' issues, because prevention is alway better than cure.

It's the easiest thing in the world to say that there are no problems at a location if you are not taking any notice of the other crew that are down there.

If the so called 'kite police' hadn't done something about Cottesloe, then the council would have banned us from the whole area, which would have been a pretty ordinary result. The 'kite police' are all volunteers, kiters, and people who care about making sure that we are allowed to use the areas we like to kite in. Nobody is creating these issues for their own amuzement.

WAKSA is happy to provide any assistance if any issues arise at any location... all we want is to make sure that kiters can use the beaches and continue with hassle free kiting... that's what we all like too.

Just a suggestion: perhaps one or more of the local crew could approach the Sailing Club and just have a chat. What harm can that possibly do.? Would be better to do this rather than wait till they contact the council and create an issue, as it was said, let the locals take care of local issues.

Cheers
Deano

Be honest, your simply trying to protect your own COMMERCIAL interests in having somewhere to teach. Nothing wrong with that. I also like the way you always manage to slip in some airush references along the way. Over the years i've always found your posts to be fairly interesting and informative but as time goes on the thought "politically correct company man" seems to be creaping in more and more.

Nothing wrong with people having an opinion!
You cant please everyone all the time!
The truth will set you free!

Darren

Great example of looking after everyone's beach access, keep up the good work. I agree with the comment that PP hasn't got much busier over the last three years. I kited there a lot 3 years ago and just a couple of time over the last couple of years. Scarborough is closer to home and thus my local, plus it has waves.

I disagree with a ban during the cat racing, there is room to launch downwind of them and space on the water to stay clear of the cats while they are racing. Having chat with them is the only way to resolve and understand the issues. I too have raced cats (and windsurfers) at club, state, national and international level, start procedures are not clear to bystanders.

The "locals" could do well to watch and learn from yourself and Tina kiting, you are both as real class acts and ambassadors for kitesurfing.

Regards

Richard

It's a good idea to talk to locals about local issues, but then again, the idea of the forum is to get the wide opinion, and then it's up to locals/regulars to take the positives out of it and use those to the advantage of all that use the area.

All this stuff is good discussion, and stoff you are quite right... beach access etc is a very emotive issue for everyone, but again, everyone is on the same team i think, and for those who aren't, they soon get disregarded by those of us who are serious and trying to make a positive difference.

WAKSA is trying to encourage local user groups to form and be 'sub-committees'. Essentially, there is nobody who can do a better job of things in each area than the locals and that's what we're trying to promote. However as part of that we are trying to make sure that it is a 'prevention rather than cure' attitude, obviously without making issues arise if there are none.

With the growth of the sport, change is upon us irrespective of whether we want it, and our local spots will be being used by more and more 'blow ins', it's unavoidable. So... Be emotional, but make it positive and work in the favour of Kite Surfing, cause what happens in one place will have an effect on all.

Cheers :)
Deano

Hey Get Funky,

The two who ended up tangled were the Euro chicky you mentioned and the guy who crashed his kite onto the Lift Pro as mentioned at the start of this topic somewhere a week or so ago.

He took a lesson with me after that incident and was, as I thought, a much more responsible and safe kiter because of it. I happened to be the dude in the boat returning with a student at the end of a lesson. I went to the rescue when I saw the tangled mess of peeps and kites.

After the incident, once things had returned to normal, I had a quiet talk with the student about keeping an eye on his surroundings and being aware of other riders. Maybe he waskeeping an eye out and he just got collected. He said "she just came out of nowhere". I didn't see the incident and I dont know if there was any gear damage, I dont think so, but both riders were a little shaken up, especially the lass who thought she was going to get sliced and diced by lines.

Alls well ends well. Nobody hurt and hopefully both riders that little bit more aware of others around them. The lass seems to be quite friendly and approachable, maybe you can just rock up and have a "chat" with her if indeed you think it is warranted.

Good winds and PEACE