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Rocker measurement OR Mako 150 x 40cm

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Created by pulse69 4 months ago, 20 Feb 2018
pulse69
QLD, 28 posts
20 Feb 2018 3:29PM
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Hi Guys,
Any chance one of you could measure the rocker along the stringer of an ocean Rodeo Mako 150x40? I'm going to make my own kiteboard based on it.

Thanks!

RickyDee
NSW, 42 posts
21 Feb 2018 8:14PM
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Hey Pulse, I've got one of these in a 150, but not sure how to measure the rocker. Is it fins off, place flat and then measure the height of the tip above the floor?

lostatsea
WA, 129 posts
21 Feb 2018 9:26PM
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Generally most boards are measured tip to tip on the underside, so it's 150cm.... tip to tip measured top side is a different story, rocker stages different again.

Curious why make your own. What would you do different?

gdownie
NSW, 98 posts
22 Feb 2018 6:43PM
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You really need to make as side templet from original.
I doubt the rocker would be a gradual progressive curve from tip to tip

Kamikuza
QLD, 3273 posts
23 Feb 2018 11:28AM
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It's flat, isn't it? I've seen pictures of straight edges laid across the board and they're flat across the water line...

Plummet
4203 posts
23 Feb 2018 10:45AM
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Place it right side up on a flat surface. Measure the height of the tips. Thats the rocker at the edge of the board.

Now flip the board over. Put a straight edge across the middle of the board. The measure the Gap. Take the measurement off the outline rocker. That's the centerline rocker.

fluidity
6 posts
25 Feb 2018 2:14AM
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pulse69, I was thinking the same as you around March 2016. I had a stink board that sucked at up wind.
Looked at lots of on line reviews and the only review I liked, the OR Mako. So while thinking about whether I would buy one, I decided to make my own version as I do a bit of openscad design and 3D printing as a hobby. my first one didn't have enough rocker so I redesigned. Built in in paulonia strips then clad in composites. I did a 3d print first in 1/5 size to check... If you use the GrahamDaniel420x1450kiteboard146spacing.png file at the bottom then I've converted it from PDF to post it here but I designed the original for A0 size paper. You can probably figure out the rest. I'm between 90 and 100 kg but I could use smaller for higher wind. Work out the area and adjust the print to a new area x the ratio of your weight to 100(kg).
I've got another one I'm going to build that is here: www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=107&t=2398790
(with more rocker)
The only thing that annoys me about my current one is that when I'm trying to go super fast leading up to a jump, I really have to keep up back foot pressure if I'm going through chop to avoid a faceplant. Another local rider with much more experience than me has a mako of the same size and says that my one rides very similarly. For sure it goes up wind very easily and I only use small fins to keep it feeling loose on waves.
I can pretty much guarantee that OR and I use different methods to design though... I construct warped cylinders to make my riding surfaces from.















Plummet
4203 posts
25 Feb 2018 3:54AM
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Select to expand quote
fluidity said.
The only thing that annoys me about my current one is that when I'm trying to go super fast leading up to a jump, I really have to keep up back foot pressure if I'm going through chop to avoid a faceplant. Another local rider with much more experience than me has a mako of the same size and says that my one rides very similarly.


You need more rocker. It recon 50mm rail rocker m, 30mm centerline rocker tapering to 40mm near the tips.

Of course construction techniques get interesting when you have so much rocker and concave at the same time.

Test you press technique first before wet layup to see if anything breaks!

fluidity
6 posts
25 Feb 2018 4:35AM
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Select to expand quote
Plummet said..


fluidity said.
The only thing that annoys me about my current one is that when I'm trying to go super fast leading up to a jump, I really have to keep up back foot pressure if I'm going through chop to avoid a faceplant. Another local rider with much more experience than me has a mako of the same size and says that my one rides very similarly.




You need more rocker. It recon 50mm rail rocker m, 30mm centerline rocker tapering to 40mm near the tips.

Of course construction techniques get interesting when you have so much rocker and concave at the same time.

Test you press technique first before wet layup to see if anything breaks!



I have more rocker on the one I posted a preview of on kiteforum:
New design:

Old design:
I've laid this next to a local OR Mako owner's board and the Mako is almost identical rocker to mine but I think the Mako has about 18mm concave, mine has 25mm concave. Also the Mako feels like at least 5kg, My above one is 4kg. More weight absorbs chop better.

The different outline and angle of the above pictures make the built one appear to have more rocker than it actually has.

Construction techniques... you can see my build frame in one of the pics.
I use tie down straps and exterior PVA each paulonia strip to the ones next to it.
Some hot melt glue to the build frame formers too.
When I have it all fixed then I plane and sand, thinning down the top of the sides and ends before laying up basalt, print polyester and s-glass outer layer. After curing I pull it off the frame, clean up the hot melt glue, sand smooth and repeat composite layup on the underside. Strips work out well around 15mm x 30mm. Though I used carbon on the first one, apart from some reinforcing around the foot pads it's better to use composite fabrics that better match the bendiness of Paulonia wood. It would look good done in alternating cedar and Paulonia finished with a couple of layers of S-glass though. Because of the high concave it's not going to bend much anyway though!

Plummet
4203 posts
25 Feb 2018 2:20PM
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What's the rocker on your new board?

fluidity
6 posts
25 Feb 2018 5:10PM
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Select to expand quote
Plummet said..
What's the rocker on your new board?




I'll call my boards F1, F2 and F3.
F1 had very little rocker or concave, I've effectively retired it.
F2 I've made 3 of. if I pack under the centre when it's laid flat and subtract that from the under tip to floor measurement then the rocker measurement is 25mm.
F3 is my new one. I'll order some paulonia strips in a week or two and start my build then. Could be ready mid March.
At the moment if I run some intersections of fixed size blocks and scale on my F3 3D model I find that for a 1400 long x 400 wide board I have 42mm rocker.
I see you wrote on a thread:
20-35mm low rocker.
30-45mm medium rocker
45mm+ high rocker.

So I'll have a medium high rocker board.
The rocker is very smoothly progressive to the tips so I will still need to keep back foot pressure lining up for a jump if I want good speed but it will want to sit more at that angle, also it will carve faster and be more forgiving and fun on the waves + let me go more overpowered on kite size but still have control.
That's the plan anyway!

What's going to be more interesting is my new concave is now 42 mm(I must be visually drawn to setting my designs with equal rocker and concave measurements)
At 42mm concave instead of 25mm, it won't feel as loose in transitions but it won't need fins either.

My rocker distribution is opposite to your recommendation though.
I have max rocker on the centre line and my rails rocker doesn't follow as much towards the ends. That's to improve transition rotation and also to improve edge holding and to straighten the edges on the surface that's giving me up wind speed.

Plummet
4203 posts
26 Feb 2018 1:02PM
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Select to expand quote
fluidity said..


Plummet said..
What's the rocker on your new board?






I'll call my boards F1, F2 and F3.
F1 had very little rocker or concave, I've effectively retired it.
F2 I've made 3 of. if I pack under the centre when it's laid flat and subtract that from the under tip to floor measurement then the rocker measurement is 25mm.
F3 is my new one. I'll order some paulonia strips in a week or two and start my build then. Could be ready mid March.
At the moment if I run some intersections of fixed size blocks and scale on my F3 3D model I find that for a 1400 long x 400 wide board I have 42mm rocker.
I see you wrote on a thread:
20-35mm low rocker.
30-45mm medium rocker
45mm+ high rocker.

So I'll have a medium high rocker board.
The rocker is very smoothly progressive to the tips so I will still need to keep back foot pressure lining up for a jump if I want good speed but it will want to sit more at that angle, also it will carve faster and be more forgiving and fun on the waves + let me go more overpowered on kite size but still have control.
That's the plan anyway!

What's going to be more interesting is my new concave is now 42 mm(I must be visually drawn to setting my designs with equal rocker and concave measurements)
At 42mm concave instead of 25mm, it won't feel as loose in transitions but it won't need fins either.

My rocker distribution is opposite to your recommendation though.
I have max rocker on the centre line and my rails rocker doesn't follow as much towards the ends. That's to improve transition rotation and also to improve edge holding and to straighten the edges on the surface that's giving me up wind speed.



Have you considered the waterline rocker//concave? You don't want to add so much concave that you have a negative rocker/concave across the waterline. That will lead to a potentially harsh board to ride.Note that the mako has a dead flat rocker/concave Also as you increase concave you decrease carving transition fluidity, The Mako is quite a defined rail/rail carve without a smooth transition between the 2. I expect even more concave with lead to more disconnection between each rail leading to a very defined sharp snap changing from one rail to the next. That is not what you want when carving a wave face, A smooth clean transition between rails feels the best in my opinion. My board pictured below feels far better than the mako when carving on the wave face. I put this down to the fact that it has less concave leading to more rocker across the waterline.

Side note,

My rocker suggestion for shallower rocker in the center of the board and more rocker at the tips will give you the most efficient board while also allowing for enough rocker at the tips not to nosedive. If you go shallow at the tips and deep in the center you will have nose dive and inefficiency.





fluidity
6 posts
26 Feb 2018 4:44PM
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Select to expand quote
Plummet said..
My rocker suggestion for shallower rocker in the center of the board and more rocker at the tips will give you the most efficient board while also allowing for enough rocker at the tips not to nosedive. If you go shallow at the tips and deep in the center you will have nose dive and inefficiency.

All interesting points above plummet.
Last night I hadn't realised that I was up to 42mm concave and it's been worrying me today. Mostly because catching it side on it's going to be harder to resist it rotating my toes down and potentially injuring me, Especially if I get a landing angle wrong. It's taken me a while as it is to develop the skills to slide the board around in a transition on it's edge and not just a carve, I have to use the kite for a bit of lift and carefully control my heel pressure.
I'm not entirely convinced about your theory on the straight line when the board is at a riding angle. It makes for efficiency but I want to compromise a bit of that for more rocker. I'll experiment though and maybe do a scale 3D print, it's easier to judge perspective by eye off a physical model than a rendered computer model. Concave gives lift by redirecting the water angle and by trapping air pockets it also softens the ride a bit. Anyway your input is appreciated, Having the OR Mako as a rough target for my own original design took a lot of risk out of it.

pulse69
QLD, 28 posts
1 Mar 2018 11:07AM
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Select to expand quote
RickyDee said..
Hey Pulse, I've got one of these in a 150, but not sure how to measure the rocker. Is it fins off, place flat and then measure the height of the tip above the floor?


Sorry for the late reply. Because of the massive concave and rounded tips on the Mako, its necessary to take the fins off, put a rule along the middle of the board and then measure from there to the tips.

pulse69
QLD, 28 posts
1 Mar 2018 11:10AM
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Select to expand quote
lostatsea said..
Generally most boards are measured tip to tip on the underside, so it's 150cm.... tip to tip measured top side is a different story, rocker stages different again.

Curious why make your own. What would you do different?


Sorry for the late reply guys Lostatsea.

I just want to make something for myself. I found an old post on losethestraps www.losethestraps.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=388 where Tungsten makes his own Mako 150 x 40 as a hollow timber board. It looks really cool.

pulse69
QLD, 28 posts
1 Mar 2018 11:18AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
fluidity said..
pulse69, I was thinking the same as you around March 2016. I had a stink board that sucked at up wind.
Looked at lots of on line reviews and the only review I liked, the OR Mako. So while thinking about whether I would buy one, I decided to make my own version as I do a bit of openscad design and 3D printing as a hobby. my first one didn't have enough rocker so I redesigned. Built in in paulonia strips then clad in composites. I did a 3d print first in 1/5 size to check... If you use the GrahamDaniel420x1450kiteboard146spacing.png file at the bottom then I've converted it from PDF to post it here but I designed the original for A0 size paper. You can probably figure out the rest. I'm between 90 and 100 kg but I could use smaller for higher wind. Work out the area and adjust the print to a new area x the ratio of your weight to 100(kg).
I've got another one I'm going to build that is here: www.kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=107&t=2398790
(with more rocker)
The only thing that annoys me about my current one is that when I'm trying to go super fast leading up to a jump, I really have to keep up back foot pressure if I'm going through chop to avoid a faceplant. Another local rider with much more experience than me has a mako of the same size and says that my one rides very similarly. For sure it goes up wind very easily and I only use small fins to keep it feeling loose on waves.
I can pretty much guarantee that OR and I use different methods to design though... I construct warped cylinders to make my riding surfaces from.
















Thanks for your detailed post. Looks awesome. How heavy was the board in the end? The one I'm making is hollow and should hopefully come out less than 3kg.

Its hard to tell from your pictures, but it looks like you have less rocker than the mako's that I've seen. The figures I've seen suggest 1.9cm concave and 5.7cm rocker.

fluidity
6 posts
1 Mar 2018 4:34PM
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Hi pulse69,
I have 25mm concave in mine.

Not convinced light makes a better board, lighter makes it more sensitive to chop. I made one that was only 2kg but liked the feel of my 4kg one much better in chop.
And if you are going for height... it's all mass that gets used to drive the kite up wind when you do your carve up wind and bring the kite overhead.



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