In view of a few near misses and the recent accidents i thought i,d stick up some guide lines that we suggest the people use at the Pit. Feel free to comment


Guide Lines for sailing at Sandy Point , particularly on south west days

œ If your sailing with your right hand forward (Starboard Tack) you have right of way: ie sail your course and be positive about your direction so that the other water users can go around you. (Does not apply to kites. Kites should always pass on the downwind side when on opposing tacks)

œ When you are on the speed course, look behind you before gybing or tacking. It takes the speed sailors/kiters about 30 seconds to run the whole course. They arrive very quickly.

œ If doing tricks/jumping on the course, have a quick look behind before starting. Try and not do tricks/jumps directly in front of speedies.

œ When coming tacking back up the course, have several good looks up wind before going into the bank as there may be some one coming down. Sail into the bank behind them, slow down or stall into the water rather than crossing in front of them. The wake from your board may cause the ridder to crash at very high speed.

œIf you are going up wind along the bank, move away from edge to when another craft is approaching you on the course

œ Before jumping off the bank look up wind for anyone coming along the course

œ When pulling up on the bank try not to let you mast and sail drop back. The speed sailor passing behind you at 40 knots ,trying to stay close to the bank does not want to collect it.

œ Give Kiters room. They have as much right to sail there as any other water user.

œ Kiters should always try and pass on the downwind side when windsurfers and kiters are on an opposing, potential collision course.

œ Kiters should be aware of windsurfers approaching from behind and allow them water room to overtake upwind.

œ Play nice, go fast and have fun

I wish you guys would come to a consensus on the starboard tack rule, you change your minds ever 5 minutes.

The other point I have an issues with is:

œ Kiters should be aware of windsurfers approaching from behind and allow them water room to overtake upwind.

In all boating rules it is the overtaking boat that must give way. No boats have rear view mirrors and it is just impractical to expect kiters or any vessel to be continually looking behind them for overtaking boats. We now hold the sailing speed record so what makes you think your going to pass us

IanR said...
...you change your minds ever 5 minutes....

nope... if there is 500m between sailors, then starboard rules.... if you are 20m away, windsurfer goes upwind (in reality, both craft cant turn instantly, so we pass... sensibly).

why? because a kiter can sail at full-speed will being only 3m downwind of the windsurfer... its not "simple" the other way round.

P.s Kato if you want to apply these rules why is not also posted in the windsurfing forum or are you saying that only kiters are the issue

nebbian said...

IanR: It is posted in the windsurfing Speed section: www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=45919

Also, I have been taken out by a kiter when I was about 20m downwind -- he was doing figure 8's with his kite to get more power, and took me out on the downstroke. Grade 5 maths still applies.

What I've found is that kiters are usually slower and point higher than windsurfers, so I constantly have a dilemma when I'm on a collision course (same tack where he can't see me). Do I try to outpoint him and possibly fall off the plane, so then I'll be downwind? Do I try to pass just downwind of him and get clipped on the downstroke? Or do I go way downwind and still get taken out when he gybes without looking (happens a lot where I sail).

I agree. Kites are a pain in the @rse to try to windsurf around, they don't seem to have much control and don't sail a very straight line, when they have too much power they head hard upwind and when they don't have much power they slow down dramatically and start drifting quickly downwind and are a real hazard for every other craft on the water.

nebbian I see you are based in Mandurah Wa do you sail at the ponds in Safety Bay or at Halls head in mandurah or at Avalon/ Port bouvard . If you often sail at the beach near Eastport at Port Bouvard you should be aware that there are lots of learners there. and often they are completely out of control.

I'm sorry to hear that you where clip by a kiter twenty meters down wind of them. I think this is more the exception that the rule. But this is no reason to say all kiters are dangerous. There are idiots in both sports. We all make assessments of others sailing ability and avoid those that we consider inexperienced or inconsiderate.

Personally I will never sail Halls Head because of the agro attitude of the sailboarders there.

Wasn't there a case recently of one sailboarder running over and injuring an another at hells gate in gerlton. he didn't even stop to see if he had hurt the guy. Should I consider all Sailboarders as dangerous and inconsiderate from one incident like that.

I disagree with the point about of kites pointing higher that sailboards as most sailing boats with the center of power being closer to dagger board/fin point way higher to the wind than A kite that is pulling from twenty meters away I have often tried to follow(at a safe distance) Nathan one of the formula racers out of Kurnall and he can out point me by at least 15 degrees.

You could always just slow down and not try and pass him if you think your in danger gybe and sail away or are you always in competition. aren't we all sailing for fun. Or are we in a 18 foot skiff type race where we must win at all cost, because there a thousands of dollars at stack if don't get across the line First

I will not sail 18's any more because that is not the way I wish to spend my day offs recreation

IanR said...

Firstly you don't have to go 25 m down wind of us to pass us on the down wind side. Our kites are usually at about 45degrees to the water your Masts are say 3m high therefore if you pass us 4 or 5 meters down wind our lines are not going to clip your mast Remember grade five maths.

sails are about 5m (I have some that approach 6m) - your maths are wrong.
Also, 45 deg is optimistic - kites regularly fly only a few meters above the water. Safety is about what happens in the extreme case, not about what happens on-average.

Secondly you must give us more room than the high of you mast when you pass us you could get flicked or drop the boom and we then cope a stiff carbon rod in out faces

indeed - but that min distance is only 6m, with less being quite reasonable. Kites frequently slam into the water -> min distance in that case is lines+foil depth (aka about 30m).

In both cases the gear will get blown downwind somewhat. For a windsurfer, this is often only a few meters, for a kiter this is usually many tens of meters.

To Mathew in a another threat I stated that general I try and pay you guys respect and pass on the downwind side and you attacked me and said that the boating rules State that Starboard tack must hold there line Please Make up Your mind. HOW BAD IS YOUR EYE SIGHT IF YOU DON'T BEAR OFF BEFORE YOU ARE WITHIN TWENTY METERS OF ME!!! The boating rules State that you must make clear indications of your intentions well in advance and every boat has the responseablity to avoid collision no matter of the starboard rule

exactly - you just made my point -> starboard rules apply, except when collision avoidance is required, in which case kiter goes downwind. What is it about your own statement that you dont get?

If we are going to be anal and you insist in pass us 25M down wind then you have to pass us 25M upwind or you are Breaking the Boating rules.

huh? Boating rules are about minimum clearance, not about some arbitrary radius. When lines sit at 30deg, windsurfers (6m mast) need to be at least 10.4m away for minimum collision avoidance; this reduces to about 1.5m if the windsurfer goes upwind of the kiter.

Obviously if the kit flies higher, then less distance is required - but given that kites often fly oly a few meters above the water, the sensible safe distance is at least the length of the lines.

I've kited Sandy Pt a fair bit and had no issues with other kiters or polies. As long as people have a bit of common sense (can be hard to find these days), give way to people on the course and are aware of where others are then it's usually OK.

A lot of times it is super windy there so I will pass downwind of polies as it's safer for all. IMO it works pretty well (haven't been there when any incidents have occurred).

Was there between Christmas and New Year and me some nice crew.

Sailing the spit is different to other spots so I agree with Kato that you can't just call starboard like a knob.

I was at Sandy Point from Boxing day till last Friday and at times had both my Sailboard and Kite setup together on beach.

No issues whatsoever with the rules as first stated.

It's all common sense and works.
remember it is only when things are close that some rules are needed, and when Sandy point is working for sailing both directions of the speed course things get very close.

Kiters have to be aware they are the bottom of the Hirachy and respect others.
and from a sailboarding point of view a kiter crossing upwind relatively close gives the perspective to the Polie of those lines being nerviously close to the mast. So kiters should aim to lower the polie's blood pressure and be positive about keeping kite high etc. polies are usually Old so Blood pressure is an issue.

kiters on the speed course can go plenty fast and crash. Just think about how far you travel in that situation.

Cutting up to the bank on the pit speed coarse leaves a very decent wake. you need to hit these wakes at speed on a very broad reach to appreciate how anxious the situation can get.

the best kiting is up near the launch area anyway so aside from allowing the polies to get under way and return, you usually get plenty of room there.

I might add to the rules that is it is not suitable to launch and land in the carpark area especially with crowds. does no good for our image at all.

Mind you the scariest thing at Sandy Point is Daff Gybing across your bows.

PS the first rule and step one of Gybing as I was taught was to look behind.

how many accidents could have been avoided if the turner looked behind first???

Lets not start a war here. I'll be down at Sandy Point at the end of this month for 3 days of kiting and romantic evenings with the missus and I don't want polies giving me filthy looks as I fly past them

Cut said...

Lets not start a war here. I'll be down at Sandy Point at the end of this month for 3 days of kiting and romantic evenings with the missus and I don't want polies giving me filthy looks as I fly past them

Good luck with that fly past stuff Hope the wind comes up for you

Mathew If you are approaching 40 knot, can you guarantee that your not going to get flicked or drop your sail. Sailboarders drop there sails as often as kiters.

To me the word Surf means riding waves Not going fast on flat water. I see no photos of you on waves. Therefore windSURFer dose not apply to your favorite discipline, unless you ride that brand only. Only tools call it Olympic windsurfing

I only nitpick because you do.

You obviously sail/kite with the wrong people

You are not worth the hassle this is my last statement in this conversation and If I come to sandy point to sail/kite fast I will abide by kato's guide lines
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when i kite down at sandy i will go way faster than any fruity sailboarder whilst doing double kite loops and trying to land on speed geeks heads who look like they aren,t having fun anyway and should be punished with the humiliation they deserve,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,all those commas are for all the nitpickers who would try to find anything here to bag...........................

Hey hook, are you sure you are a kite rider, I'm pretty sure I saw you windsurfing at sandy point!

when the southerly kicks in at Sandy Point.

the kite gets sand bagged and out comes the Sailboard.

there is no better Zen feeling than a session running both ways along the speed course at Sandy point, on a lively slalom board.
When the conditions are like this and sailboards are out in mass, Kites just don't cut it.

They're just plane hard work and you are forever having to be sending kite high and staying out of the way of sailboards.

simply way better to head across to surf beach. the break is such there, that you have heaps of flat water anyway.