Speed monitor for kiting

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gmd
gmd
WA
97 posts
gmd gmd
WA, 97 posts
3 Feb 2012 3:53pm
Hi everyone,
looking for a wrist type (light) speed monitor which I can wear in the water. Found only one GPS based product so far and would like to know if any of you use one ?
I try to get into racing more and am trying to monitor my training efforts a bit better.
Thanks for any pointers
regards
gmd
catalaussie
catalaussie
128 posts
128 posts
3 Feb 2012 4:59pm
Have a look at www.gps-kitesurfing.com/default.aspx . There is information about GPS devices and GPS software.

You could register and compare your results with the best top racers. Maybe is based too much on speed more thant race. But it's really interesting. There are a lot of aussies using it. Maybe you could contect some of them and train together (this would be the best option in order to get better results).

If you are interested in share GPS tracks just contact me. It's a good option to get motivated and improve your trainings.

If there is someone else interested, just keep on touch!!

Share trainings and information is the best way to improve results!!!
Smithy
Smithy
VIC
859 posts
VIC, 859 posts
3 Feb 2012 8:46pm
Have a look at garmin they have some great gps devices that you can upload to their site and track your progress etc.
catalaussie
catalaussie
128 posts
128 posts
3 Feb 2012 6:04pm
Software would be as important as the GPS device to get the best information.

Upwind angle is as important as speed. The most important in racing is to get the best speed/angle ratio as possible. If you are the fastest, but you have a bad angle you'll do anything, and the same if you have the best angle but you are not fast enough.

All my best,

Alex
Smithy
Smithy
VIC
859 posts
VIC, 859 posts
3 Feb 2012 9:14pm
The windsurfing forums have a whole section dedicated to gps, have a look there I am sure your questions will be answered... There not a bad bunch really...
catalaussie
catalaussie
128 posts
128 posts
3 Feb 2012 6:40pm
I use a Garmin Foretrex-401 and Garmin Connect free software.

The device is not the best because could have some water infiltration problems, but could be used for racing if you take care about it. It's a not too expensive and useful option to start.

The software is not one of the most complete but could be used too to follow your progress. It couldn't calculate angles but you could do it manually.

I'll link one of my GPS tracks in Garmin connect as example in few minutes. I hope it could help you!
lex123
lex123
NSW
511 posts
NSW, 511 posts
3 Feb 2012 9:42pm
Garmin Forunner 910XT Waterproof, small, does speed and Elevation
catalaussie
catalaussie
128 posts
128 posts
3 Feb 2012 7:04pm


connect.garmin.com/modern/activity/81686657

only as example to have a look at Garmin Connect.

Don't take care at elevation gain... it seems not working well when kite-racing (yes when running).
dafunk
dafunk
QLD
561 posts
QLD, 561 posts
3 Feb 2012 9:34pm
i've used a garmin forerunner 101 once . it said i was doing 9-10m high jumps ! 6m at the very most i rekon .the better ones would be more elavation accurate hopefully ?
it also fell off my wrist during a crash but grab it .
great for **** talk
Gorgo
Gorgo
VIC
5127 posts
VIC, 5127 posts
3 Feb 2012 10:47pm
Garmin are good. Any of the waterproof wrist ones are fine.

They all do speed and location well.

No GPS does altitude accurately at all. You would need to spend $100k on a survey accurate GPS and put a series of base stations on survey marks in close proximity to where you were using it.

lotofwind
lotofwind
NSW
6451 posts
NSW, 6451 posts
3 Feb 2012 10:54pm
Smithy said...

The windsurfing forums have a whole section dedicated to gps, have a look there I am sure your questions will be answered... There not a bad bunch really...


Yeah,they are not a bad bunch,
just dont mention that kiters hold the speed record.
Its like mentioning the war to Germens.

"Dont mention ze war"
Rattlehead
Rattlehead
QLD
555 posts
QLD, 555 posts
3 Feb 2012 10:26pm
www.velocitek.com/pages/speedpuck

Mate these are what we use on smaller yachts/ catamarans/skiffs ect . Going to try one on my race board , they simply stick on what ever( say front of race board or toe side above the handle of your twin tip) with this extra strong velco patches , they are light weight the numbers are huge , gives you current speed ,max speed , heading ,wind shift indicator ,ect waterproof ,the best part is when you get home go plug it into your computer and it logs you day , if you have a regatta with these units on all the boats you can get software which logs each boat in the race on a map of the coarse showing all the data for each boat (heading,track speed ect) you can replay the whole race fast forward rewind ect.

They are not that expensive about $350 but you can use them on any sailing craft , proper waterproof no need for wp case and as I said huge easy to read display,simple to use only 1 button.

There are more complicated models but they are much bigger.
catalaussie
catalaussie
128 posts
128 posts
3 Feb 2012 8:29pm
I forgot to tell that it's recommended to use any kind of "leash" when using the wrist (the original velcro one). Otherway could easily be lost in a crash... Won't be the first...

Elevation is not so important if you are only racing...
Peterc150
Peterc150
VIC
710 posts
VIC, 710 posts
3 Feb 2012 11:41pm
I started with a Garmin Forerunner 101, but now use a Garmin Edge 705 (actually a bike computer/GPS). This has a USB connection and works well with the Garmin Connect website for uploading tracks.

I carry it in a harness pouch, inside a waterproof case for added protection. It works very well.

More info: kitesurfing-handbook.peterskiteboarding.com/gear/gps-for-kitesurfing
archie00
archie00
NSW
138 posts
NSW, 138 posts
4 Feb 2012 12:03am
Hi Rattlehead, have you tried attaching the speedpuck to a raceboard? Same as you, I have been looking at one to mount on the front of my raceboard. Do you think it would hold ok with the velcro when you flip the board etc? Anyone with any experience having one of these on their boards?
gmd
gmd
WA
97 posts
gmd gmd
WA, 97 posts
3 Feb 2012 11:09pm
Thanks guys,
velocitec was the one I meant. Looks like the only IPX8 GPS. all the others, Garmin, Nuvi etc are IPX7 and probably need a pouch. I m not so fussed about the display, since I am mostly interested in the logging feature to analyse after the session. Saying that a pouch might also work, but so far none of the products are really convincing. I checked out the windsurfer forum and they mainly talk about the Nuvi GA-31 which again is IPX7.
Will have to make up my mind some time soon. This kind of product seems to be lagging after the state of the art technology. I would like a GPS enabled GoPro, the you can have the best of both worlds. Will probably happen soon. I am convinced they are working on it.
thanks again
gmd
harry potter
harry potter
VIC
2777 posts
VIC, 2777 posts
4 Feb 2012 3:19am
iPhone inside a condom with a knot tied in the end....... Screen still operates to the touch through the dinger
I have been using this to log speeds in the t-cat and a few times kiting with no ill effects
I usually just tuck the iPhone up the sleeve of the wettie and whip it out to reset or check results before going at it again.

It's rudimentary and only gives basic info (top speed and average) but its enough to have a bit of fun with.... Particularly in the buttter smooth glassy locations.

Use two dingers if you are worried !
Rattlehead
Rattlehead
QLD
555 posts
QLD, 555 posts
4 Feb 2012 7:35am
archie00 said...

Hi Rattlehead, have you tried attaching the speedpuck to a raceboard? Same as you, I have been looking at one to mount on the front of my raceboard. Do you think it would hold ok with the velcro when you flip the board etc? Anyone with any experience having one of these on their boards?


We use them on all sorts of high performance boats chech out you tube , the Velcro is not ordinary Velcro it's super strength , there is also a lanyard which comes with is so you can have it hanging around your neck or attach it to something incase it comes off .should fix fine to the board as long as the surface is clean.

I've seen a few people running different apps on phones and iPhones but even the best waterproof cases can let you down , one of the guys the other day fried his brand new iPhone cos it got moisture in it , also you can't read it while your sailing along , the whole point of the gps is to see speed or heading in real time so you can see if minor adjustments are making you go faster or if you sailing along and you get a lift or a knock in the wind direction.

Jay
nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
4 Feb 2012 8:35am
If you're serious about measuring your speed properly, there's only really one option for kitesurfers, and that's the Locosys Navi GT-31.

All the garmins suffer from aliasing in their recordings, not many of them record both doppler and trackpoint data, and if you start posting on gps-kitesurfing then you won't be taken seriously until you start wearing a Navi.

By all means get a garmin or try using your iPhone if you like, but if you want to know for sure what speed you did, then get a Navi.

(disclaimer, I run gpsteamchallenge.com.au)
gmd
gmd
WA
97 posts
gmd gmd
WA, 97 posts
4 Feb 2012 9:37am
nebbian said...

If you're serious about measuring your speed properly, there's only really one option for kitesurfers, and that's the Locosys Navi GT-31.

All the garmins suffer from aliasing in their recordings, not many of them record both doppler and trackpoint data, and if you start posting on gps-kitesurfing then you won't be taken seriously until you start wearing a Navi.

By all means get a garmin or try using your iPhone if you like, but if you want to know for sure what speed you did, then get a Navi.

(disclaimer, I run gpsteamchallenge.com.au)


well.. as I said before the GT-31 (I wrote GA-31 sorry) is only IPX7 and I am a bit allergic to words like the above .. being taken serious unless .. etc etc .. what a load of cr@p. I do not intend to post any data or routes anywhere, why should I ?
And if there are people who might insist on certain equipment to be taken seriously, then I am happy to forget about them.
The current GPS devices are lagging behind the state of the art technology. It is amazing to see that there is no decent waterproof wrist device (like my dive computers) and they still need to be so big. Even IPX8 is not "waterproof" in my book but still better than IPX7. Being waterproof is not about the depth or time under water once, it is about the effects of heat/cold and water over time.
regards
gmd
Rattlehead
Rattlehead
QLD
555 posts
QLD, 555 posts
4 Feb 2012 2:21pm
nebbian said...

If you're serious about measuring your speed properly, there's only really one option for kitesurfers, and that's the Locosys Navi GT-31.

All the garmins suffer from aliasing in their recordings, not many of them record both doppler and trackpoint data, and if you start posting on gps-kitesurfing then you won't be taken seriously until you start wearing a Navi.

By all means get a garmin or try using your iPhone if you like, but if you want to know for sure what speed you did, then get a Navi.

(disclaimer, I run gpsteamchallenge.com.au)


I'm going to go out on a limb here ,but the speed puck would be just as accurate if not more accurate than the gt31 , I know the gt31 is the recognized measurement instrument for the gps speed challenge , but that does not make it a superior device , more boat sailors use the velocitek instruments than any of the others ,because of the big display ease of use and there more waterproof . I've seen the sailboard guys do a speed run pull up on the bank then dick around for 5mins with their gt31 strapped to their upper arm ........ The speed puck the numbers are big enough to see as you go and if you want to check max speed or 10 sec average you just push the 1 big button it will even scroll though them on the fly !!
eneour
eneour
WA
104 posts
WA, 104 posts
4 Feb 2012 1:49pm
the SpeedPuck by Velocitek gives clear instant speed readings

the price is a bit steep though, $339...

here's the link:

www.velocitek.com/pages/speedpuck

And a kitespeed video using it:


Gorgo
Gorgo
VIC
5127 posts
VIC, 5127 posts
4 Feb 2012 7:10pm
BTW Any GPS you strap on your wrist is really just going to give you speed and time and stuff. For just riding around they are all the same when it comes to this. (I defer to speed enthusiasts when it comes to speed courses.)

Most of them you can put in a course and it will give you the time distance to turnpoints.

I guess you could get yacht racing computers that do all sorts of race stuff.

I would be amazed if you could do anything useful with the screen and controls of a GPS while riding along. I'm usually busy riding to do more than look at the time and the speed.

The good bit comes after you've been riding and you can download the trackand analyze it. The Garmins come with some basic software or you can hook into the web version and get some more analysis and store your data in the "Cloud".

There are any number of pieces of free/cheap software that does analysis of GPS tracks for whatever purpose. Google around and see what you find. Most software talks to any brand of GPS.

The cheaper Garmins are all water RESISTANT to 1 metre. I have Garmin 405 for years and it is still going fine. The Garmin 910XT is water PROOF to 50 metres. I don't think you'll get a GPS signal down there.
ScarbsSUP
ScarbsSUP
WA
354 posts
WA, 354 posts
4 Feb 2012 6:29pm
Hi Peeps,

I use a Garmin 310XT with HRM for SUP race training. Pretty cool unit and does everything but cook you toast and coffee for after your session.

I use it for Time, Distance, Speed and Heart Rate. It does much much more including calories burned etc. It's water proof and simple to use.

I have had three goes through warranty to get it working properly. I suggest to buy local as OS warranty is not considered here in Oz.

When you upload your data to Garmin Connect, you can really pull apart your session second by second and see graphs comparing speed, HR, time, elevation and much more, then plot it down on top of Google maps so you can see your entire course. You can compare sessions too. Awesome for race and training.

They are designed for training and Triathlon etc, so not ideally built for Kite, but it's a nice bit of kit. Expect to pay around $300-350 delivered from an Oz retailer.

Cheers,

DM
gmd
gmd
WA
97 posts
gmd gmd
WA, 97 posts
5 Feb 2012 8:36pm
thanks for all the answers ..
really appreciated guys.
For me the puck looks like a good option .. agree the price is a bit high...
most of you express the sentiment to analyse after the session.. I agree there..
when you are pounding hard upwind the you are not worried about some smallish display .. the puck seems better readable as it was said above .. I do not really care at all what is accepted for some challenge or anything else .. going with the flow never makes you better, it just averages things out :) ..
I will carefully look at all the recommendations given but the GT-31 is probably not my choice for several reasons .. the puck is clearly the top choice for me right now especially for its better water resistance .. well at least by spec that is ..
thanks again ..
see ya on the water .. was there the last 2 days anyway ..
regards
gmd
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