Toeside tips, please

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alverstone
alverstone
WA
533 posts
WA, 533 posts
25 Jan 2013 1:27pm
I've got a strapped WAM 5' 8" surfboard, a 7m Park, 9m Nomad and a 12m, so I've been out loving the combinations of each in wind fom 15-25kts since before Christmas. However, I still find that in heavier conditions I'm losing ground downwind while toeside. For example, yesterday at Dutchies with one foot in the front strap and the other foot near the windward rail I twice l had to do the walk of shame back up to just past the main launch spot. Having starboard tack polies playing chicken with you on the out-bound tack and others doing jumps and rolls when inbound does not help! I lean hard, try and keep my windward foot away from the stern of the board and am looking forward with the bar in one hand outstretched. Any tips, please, would be appreciated as this is more like the real deal than being on the TT.
Saffer
Saffer
VIC
4501 posts
VIC, 4501 posts
25 Jan 2013 4:33pm
I found the major item that made a difference was taking my back foot out of the strap, putting it just in front of the strap but very close to the toeside edge. The front foot didn't make a massive difference but obviously depends on how wide the board is.
oldmic
oldmic
NSW
359 posts
NSW, 359 posts
25 Jan 2013 4:59pm
Yep dutchies was a bit busy yesterday.
IMO heel side will give you a higher tack angle.
Three things that work for me at cott, assuming your a natural footer.
1.Make the heel side tack way long well out past the yellow marker, gets you free of traffic. Front side tack until the traffic thickens not all the way to the beach, heel side out again can generally get back to the start in 2.
2. Switch feet "salsa" keeps you heel side tacking.
3. Forget tacking just down wind.
alverstone
alverstone
WA
533 posts
WA, 533 posts
25 Jan 2013 2:12pm
FYI: I ride toeside with my right foot in the front strap and the other near the rail just infront of the rear strap while heading 'out' at Dutchies. I try and inch my rear foot as far forward as possible while leaning/heeling to windward (Going be some confusion here as I mix my sailing tems with others' surfing terminology). My starboard/return to shore at Dutchies tack is 'normal', leaning with my back to the wind.
default
default
WA
1255 posts
WA, 1255 posts
25 Jan 2013 2:25pm
simple answer - dont ride toeside (like what dowls is saying)

learn to gybe so you are always tacking on your heel side - problem gone instantly

then once you get back to the wave zone, just switch back to preferred stance and smash lips
SibboV1
SibboV1
368 posts
368 posts
25 Jan 2013 3:10pm
When toe side, keep weight on your front foot, I am on tippy toes on the rear foot (when strapped in) a lot of the time to get myself forward (or at least I think that's the reason - might also be that I am a spaz!). Also, tuck your back knee in so it doesn't smash into chop - once again, maybe that is just my spaz style?

I found it a great experience to go strapless, to allow easy repositioning of your feet. It's amazing how much you do move about between heel/toe side, heading up wind, catching chop, etc.
NSW, 4382 posts
25 Jan 2013 6:18pm
Whats dowls and default said and get a dynabar pro wave set up for your harness.
eppo
eppo
WA
9793 posts
WA, 9793 posts
25 Jan 2013 8:08pm
Yes learn to switch for sure, get a dynabar and all of that, but in the meantime if you must...

Yes take the back foot out and get further over the toeside rail.

There is also a component of using the kite. Build up some speed then as you drop the kite into the power zone, depower your kite slightly and get that kite to get as far around the wind window as possible. Let the kite develop its own apparent wind. Lean over on the toeside rail and play with the pressure on your edge and the kites depower. Only slight adjustments needed if you have enough power. This speed and letting the kite move forward around the wind window works even better as you go over a swell line, bring kite up a bit, come of your edge slightly then crank it down fast and depower letting the kite build speed and then edge hard as you need.

Don't choke the kite, work with it and your board and body weight. Helps if you drop the windward hand as well to get that lean over position. Hope the helps. All good advice above to.
Dave Whettingsteel
Dave Whettingsteel
WA
1397 posts
WA, 1397 posts
25 Jan 2013 8:42pm
I'm on a wam as well, first season and I can rmake the gybe at the beach and swap my my feet maybe 90% make the gybe. Ripping it actually . But on the outside gybe I'm hopeless . Can gybe fine and come in toe side but bugger me if I can swap my feet. Making maybe 1 in 20!

I'm sure ill get it, but really interesting it is so different each way. I come from a windsurf background and am 100% both tacks.

I reckon toe side is more for emergency, like gybing in front of a huge wave and not wanting to risk feet switch when about to be avalanched. My feeling is its better to change your feet if you can.

Cheers
Ellobuddha
Ellobuddha
NSW
625 posts
NSW, 625 posts
26 Jan 2013 2:50am
Turn your shoulders upwind more so your chest is facing nearly 45 degrees off your windward rail. Try keeping your kite a little higher and when its higher "sneak" a bit more upwind. Experiment with your weight between your front and back leg but really drop your rear knee low so that your weight is over the windward rail.

Loosen your harness so it will swing more round to the side and lean out against it.

Works for me anyway and I have a Wam.
eppo
eppo
WA
9793 posts
WA, 9793 posts
26 Jan 2013 7:57am
Dave Whettingsteel said...
I'm on a wam as well, first season and I can rmake the gybe at the beach and swap my my feet maybe 90% make the gybe. Ripping it actually . But on the outside gybe I'm hopeless . Can gybe fine and come in toe side but bugger me if I can swap my feet. Making maybe 1 in 20!

I'm sure ill get it, but really interesting it is so different each way. I come from a windsurf background and am 100% both tacks.

I reckon toe side is more for emergency, like gybing in front of a huge wave and not wanting to risk feet switch when about to be avalanched. My feeling is its better to change your feet if you can.

Cheers




Dave when you gybe onto your toes to start, come all the way round, the kite will race forward through the window then as it goes back up a little for the next stroke their is a slight delay and also it lifts you slightly, really turn up upwind ( and do this when slow) then do the swap. Eventually you will do it during or just after the the turn. But this helped me early on. Also and this helped me to, when you get your front foot and move it back, move it as far as you can onto the heel side back edge. Get right ya foot right over that back rail and push in. Allows you to then hold an edge and get you front foot back in the strap, then do the back. Or take the back strap off, easier then. Then take the front strap off!
Dave Whettingsteel
Dave Whettingsteel
WA
1397 posts
WA, 1397 posts
26 Jan 2013 9:15am
Thanks Eppo, ill try that.
I'm perplexed that I'm so asymmetric.... Inside gybe feet transfer is so smooth and feels really comfortable, outside just feels all wrong. Ill get there for sure. Where I seem to fail is transferring my weight from my left foot in the strap to my right foot that has shuffled up alongside it. I transfer my weight and just don't have balance and fall off, or lose board stability etc.
Plenty of wind coming up so I'm sure ill nail it soon!
eppo
eppo
WA
9793 posts
WA, 9793 posts
26 Jan 2013 11:00am
Okay try this. There is no harm in riding just a little bit if you are going slow enough with both feet alongside each other.

Now instead of lifting your left foot up and across and back, sort of slide it diagonally across and back. Even if you get it slightly back and behind the right front foot waiting to go into the strap. Try this on some flattish water also first.

As you slide that left front foot back diagonally, spin hips around and really get that left foot behind the right foot, even if it is kind of close of near the middle of the board, get weight back on that heelside edge and just hold it there for a bit. Don't be in a hurry to get in the straps.

Yeh I know exactly what prob you are having cause I had the same. Really get the left front foot back on across to your heelside edge and spin your body as well into that stance. Just relax to, don't try and do it to fast.

Again find some flattish water and if possible do it as a down winder. I did one massive downwinder never having switched before and by the end of it was nailing 70 percent of them. Second session 90 percent. Then all good.

So flattish water ( basically so you can ride your feet close together at the front for a bit), and as a down winder so your are not so worried about getting back to your mark.

Let us know how you go man.
Dave Whettingsteel
Dave Whettingsteel
WA
1397 posts
WA, 1397 posts
26 Jan 2013 7:16pm
Well Eppo, I can't say I nailed it but a significant improvement! Went out at point Moore in a nasty cross chop at kiddies corner, definitely improved my hit rate. I think the difference is keeping the pressure on the windward rail keeps the board stable. Thinking about rail pressure with the right foot, whilst sliding the left back to the rail really helped. Thankyou!

Now the inside turn was really interesting. At point Moore there is a nice little break right on the beach. I've gotten quite good at coming out of the inside turn with a heap of speed. Hitting a breaking wave whilst trying to switch feet was exciting! I think I got some of my biggest air today. But not with the board attached to me... What a laugh!

Anyway thanks for your thoughtful tips, you're on the money and I know what I am chasing now.

Happy Australia Day!

Cheers
hamburglar
hamburglar
ACT
2174 posts
ACT, 2174 posts
27 Jan 2013 9:09am
Practice, practice, practice, why limit yourself
brucex
brucex
QLD
701 posts
QLD, 701 posts
27 Jan 2013 8:34am
Some great tech tips in the above replies -
Dont give up and persist on your toeside

It is possible to go upwind just as well on your toeside as a heel side tack.
This is the reason why many surf kiters dont even bother switching -
cheers
bruce
eppo
eppo
WA
9793 posts
WA, 9793 posts
27 Jan 2013 9:28am
Well done Dave, yeh its a mind Farq to start but like anything becomes easy enough.

The again I'm no expert there some local guys here who switch feet faster than you can actually see, spins me out.

And I have never felt you can go as well upwind toe as heel, but hey maybe some can.
Dave Whettingsteel
Dave Whettingsteel
WA
1397 posts
WA, 1397 posts
27 Jan 2013 9:39pm
Even better in the waves today at horrocks. Every time I nailed an outside jybe I was was yelling out eppoooooooo ...hahha motivating and mad.

Also had some brilliant down the line wave rides... Love my mother what a ride.. Windsurfing the same waves is limp, but kiting so powered up and fast. Am not smashing lips yet, but down the line with a kite is unreal

Ok am pisssed time to socialise hahha!
eppo
eppo
WA
9793 posts
WA, 9793 posts
27 Jan 2013 10:23pm
While that is really weird I'm stoke for ya. Waves at horrocks hey, that must be the outer reef ones? One time I kited at horrocks was pretty flat in the bay there, but that didn't stop my brother shredding his new Waroo to pieces on his first launch. No matter went to gero next day and bought another. He's still got it now! Well he doesn't ride it, but he's got it. We take it out now and then just to remind ourselves how crap it really is. Lol. Well it was good in its time I suppose.
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