Sailing with a torch is like sleeping with a fat chick. Its's reliable, comfortable, but will leave you wondering what's next. The aspect is very mid range, even low, so if you're into blasting off the water I don't think you'll like it.

I tried it because Naish said that the 5th line offered instant depower. I was thinking towards wavesailing, being able to depower when racing down a big wave face. Well, in my hands, its just not that instant, so forget about this purpose. I think a 5th line is a great idea for landing on the beach, and for water relaunch.

The one pump is a fantastic step foreward. I'll never buy another without it. The torch has the more sophisticated internal system, while the SS has external conduits. But each work well.

So, I bought the SS, both the 7 and 11.

I love to death the 7m, its wind range is huge, it is so stable, and a great wave and high wind kite.
The 11m is a sound kite, but doesn't have the same performance as the 7.

If your priority is one pump, go the SS. If you want both one pump and 5 lines, either get the Torch, or wait a little while.

It Hurts So Good!

Have been riding the 12m Torch for a few weeks now, The fifth line system is excellent for getting the kite out of the drink. Has given me a great deal more confidence to go for stuff. Have experimenting with reefing the fifth line in and tying it off, changes the kite dramatically in terms of shape. Still experimenting with this to see if it's a good thing all round as the wind gets stronger.
Have to agree on the performance, it's not as quick as they claim. But **** the thing has grunt, sits a long way back in the window and doesn't shoot forward easily, similar to a Rhino2. Makes it difficult to time for boosting, actually really forces you to watch the kite again.
I found that I was getting hard landings as the kite didn't seem to shoot up over my head when jumping, still seemed to be out in front. fixed that by watching more closely what I was doing with the kite.

It's a really different way of riding to get the performance out of them. Not a kite for being lazy and riding hooked in to the chicken loop, they don't do a thing hooked in. Unhooked is a different story, they are very forgiving when looping the kite (one thing they claim that is right) Definately frustrating early, set my kiting back initially and had me all pissed off with my decision to go with them.

Lots of chin-ups got me up to kiting with them unhooked (hey, what do you do?. Bitch and moan or fix the problem?)

The more I kite and accept what they are (not a huge wind range kite) and change down when necessary, the happier I am. I still have to agree with the reviews here that they are not wonder kites by any stretch of the imagination. They will challenge you again to watch the kite like a learner.

To really enjoy these kites you need the full quiver 8,10,12,14...I'd skip the 16m and probably the 14m and get something higher aspect, like a Raven (if you like Naish kites)Too much grunt for the lighter winds which we don't really get over here in the West.

I will tell you though, the 8m is bloody sweet, best kite I have owned by a long shot. It's quick...really quick, and grunt is very good. You know how some smaller kites are fast but lack power?. Not this thing, it's beautiful.

Hope it helps.

Hey guys thanks for the reviews, really interesting info (and analogies), I'll be condidering all the options carefully.

So maybe I need to look at at this from a different approach, has anyone got a 12m they loooove! Except for PaulG, I already know how awesome his lift is

Is going for one pump too limiting, maybe I should get over it and not be so lazy?
Again is 5th line/recon worth it or are the benefits marginal and too limiting.

thanks again for any comments

Not sure how valid my opinion is, I've only flow 02/03 kites before, Aeros and x2s (I've always had Naish kites.) A few days ago I spent a full day on the water flying an 05 North Vegas 12 and 04 & 05 North Rhino 16s, all with the fifth element.

Verdict? They farkin rock! I'm pretty much an instant North Convert. I know that any 05 kite is a huge step over any 02/03 kite, but these kites were just so sweet to fly it blew me away. I was instantly better, no adjustment time needed. They were absolutely solid in the air as everyone says.. just sat there, no jellyfishing in gusts/lulls, no sudden moves, they just sat exactly where you wanted them all the time. The fifth setup was great, easy to rig and use and it all worked like it says on the box. So... try one if you can!

If I were a rich man... I'd own a kite shop just so I could fly a different kite every day

What about Cabrinha 05?
I'am using a Co2 2004 and Recon is not very effort. Is the Recon2 better?

Are the North lines color coded? (like naish or cabrinha)

Thanks

safety is the most

You know you want a Venom 13

Sorry Mkl,
I would have to agree more with gasman as i'm 68kg & have flown my 11m fuel 05 in 12-23 knots so im sure I could get at least 18-33knots with a 7m Fuel and i also use the flx 122 - Slingshot recommend using a 7m in 20-30 for a 60kg rider, must be our technique or just that the SS Fuel 05's are just a damn good kite.

Wooww

I'am impressed. I'am 64 kg. and ride with a Co2 14m. my windrange is 12-20, with a nitro 12 20knots+ (I don't know the limit)

I'am interested to buy a new and small kite, for my wife(beginner) and for more windrange. Usually riding with a 14m or 12m is enought but 12m is too much for my wife (he's only 46kg).

I have in mind a 9m kite. But maybe I must consider a SS 7m.

Well i certainly didn't get a very good deal on my 05' 13m Fuel package... payed $1999
it came with the breifcase-bag, pump, bar+lines, and the kite....
But other than the costy price is payed for it, it's amazingly smooth and fun to fly, and even when its underpumped (5 psi, instead of about 6.5psi) it holds its shape beutifully... My only problem with this kite is that the front pigtail loop is so damn small, i realy have to fiddle around with it for ages getting it over the knot. But nothing i can't modify at a later stage.

05' Slingshot Fuel rider

Has anyone ridden an 05 flow 10 or 12m?? Is it really higher performance over the 04 flow models as its supposed to be reading from the airush web site.
thanks