ummmmmm the rider?

Have a look at wakeboards, specifically those designed for cable, and you'll see what characteristics are good for pop.
Lots of continuous rocker, stiff, wide, long, wide foot placement.

But you wouldn't want to use a wakeboard behind a kite, kiteboards are always about compromise.

Kitehard said...

Hi Guys,

Rocker has nothing to do with pop and neither does stance width Stance width gives a squat, wider foundation when landing tricks and gives more control over the board. Rocker in wake boards helps with the approach up the wake and keeping the nose up. Kiteboards need a flat centre or three stage rocker for upwind ability. Wakeboards don't need upwind efficiency so can have a continuous rocker which makes landings easier too. Full on wakeboards are hard to ride upwind and are slow compared to kite wake boards.

Kiteboards are designed to be ridden on their edge ALL the time where wakeboards aren't, they are only on their edge to build speed for the jump for a few seconds. The take off is usually flat. The boat always pulls the board forwards so a flat bottom is unnecessary.

Good pop comes from the materials in construction and the tail shape of the board. The materials in the construction and the way the cloth and type of cloth is laid determines how the board flexes ie soft, stiff, does it absorb the flex or return it.

A wider tail with squared off tips gives more surface area to push off when loading.

Hope this makes it a bit clearer.

"Rocker in wake boards helps with the approach up the wake and keeping the nose up"?

Sorry mate, but I don't agree.

Why is there so much rocker on Cable wakeboard then?

And why do kiteboards have bugger all pop on a cable? Also, lets see someone do a flat 720 just popping off flat water on a kiteboard while you're on the cable, I don't think it will happen.

Rocker has a lot to do with pop. It gives you the ability to stop yourself quickly and therefore load the lines better. Try load a kiteboard in cable and its tough to build speed and then stop it to get your pop.

Unfortunately, when it comes to kiteboards, too much rocker means you battle to go upwind and its easier to kill the kite instead of loading which is why the rocker is milder, its a compromise between pop, landings and upwind.

Kitehard said...

Hey Saffer,

It is your right to disagree and i respect that, but if your theory is correct, why do nu skool and Freestyle kiteboards have the least amount of rocker and the most amount of pop?

Cheers,

KH

Try a new school board on a cable and see how much pop it has...

I think its depends on the conditions, for powered riding, a board with bindings will have more pop.

skiddz said...

what are the specially designed cable boards you are talking about? I've never seen a specifcally designed cable board, as far as i'm away people just use normal wakeboards. bindings are another story though...

You can use a normal board, but there are boards design specifically around Cable. Nick Davies has a cable designed board from Hyperlite

www.hyperlite.com/product/0/21144/_/Clash

As Saffer says. Pop comes from being able to stall/stop the board. More you can stall the board when your going flat out, the more pop you'll get.

Everyone is a different height and weight so board dimensions will differ between people. My general rule of thumb for a kiteboard is
board length - what fits under your arm
Width - depends on your weight. Blokes should have 40cm-44cm
tip width - depends if you want the board to be nice in turns or not. Wide tips are a bit of a pig to carve. Under 23cm across the tip doesnt have good ability to plane without power in the kite.

When kiteboarding our board speed is faster than wake boarding. You will get better all round performance with a flatter rocker line. (Upwind, early planning, comfortable top speed.)
If you mix the flatter rocker with the right flex for your weight you'll get a sick board.
Yeh the flex will give you savage rocker/stall when you load the board looking for pop.

see here www.cardboarding.com

NJPornstar said...

If you mix the flatter rocker with the right flex for your weight you'll get a sick board.
Yeh the flex will give you savage rocker/stall when you load the board looking for pop.

So as you load the board, it flexes and generates rocker?
Or am I misunderstanding you?

Interesting discussion.

Saffer said...

Kitehard said...

Hey Saffer,

It is your right to disagree and i respect that, but if your theory is correct, why do nu skool and Freestyle kiteboards have the least amount of rocker and the most amount of pop?

Cheers,

KH

Try a new school board on a cable and see how much pop it has...

I think its depends on the conditions, for powered riding, a board with bindings will have more pop.

thats not because they have no pop, u load up completly differently behind cable for most tricks and you are using a different profile to generate pop from a different angle from a different foot. otherwise you would be able to get straight on the cable using the same board and bust out all ur kite tricks straight up, and trust me that never happens!!!

and no!! bindings dont giv u a bigger pop when ur powered up, WTF sounds like ur talking out of ur ass.....

nick also has to consider sliders and kickers. try landing off a kicker with a flat board and see how long ur knees last. or hittin a slider with kitesize fins

pop is all about the rider and his ability to hold down as much power as possible for a short period and releasing it at the right time with the right profile board for the job. crazy rocker and kitesurfing dont go well together

There is a lot of different opinions on cable, wake and kite boards. I supose being a kite board forum there are a lot of people that dont know much about wake or cable. But as far as i can see on cable you need rocker to stop the board to get good pop as the cable doesnt stop, the more tension you build up on the line the bigger you go, Where as on a kite you load up to much it has the oposite affect you just stall the kite at the front of the window.

With kiteboarding there is 2 destinct styles of getting pop, one with a stiff board you get off the edge and then really stomp it quickly allmost stalling the board causing the kite to flys rapidly forwards putting masive tension on the lines an ripping you from the watter doing this causes the kite to generate extra lift increasing the size of your pop. The second method is used more with boards that have some flex where you use board speed then bear off and progressively edge your board in to the wind building tension in the lines and storing energy in the flex of the board while maintaining momentum then releasing the edge resulting in more of a smooth flowing pop that you can use the extra momentum to do tricks and you seem to travel that little bit further. Both methods give good pop but suit different ridding styles and Board types.

The biggest factor is for the ridder to understand the board they are using and use the right tecnique to maximise the pop they get. I prefer the second method as you dont stay young forever and the older you get the more you notice how much stiff boards affect knees,hips,feet etc.

i think it really comes down to how you load and pop.. kiters and cable riders load very differently and its quite obvious when kiters step up at cable doing double cuts etc (loading like you would behind a kite) and it kills alot of their pop on its own.

if you use a big progressive load up with lots of power on your kite then yes a rockered board works better because you have more control on your speed, you can hold your edge better etc..

if you do the tail stomp quick load kite style pop thing that 99% of riders do then a flatter board seems to work better.

as darren also pointed out most of it comes out of the way the boards constructed and where the flex is n how well it reflexes etc.


as for the boots comment obviously you can hold a bigger edge etc n pop harder than in straps, hence why when in boots i can get a good 5knots more top end out etc. but yer it comes down to what kind of technique you use.

You would also find 3 stage rocker is SH!T for kiteboarding and that is why continuous rocker wakeboards are the choice for wakestyle riders.

saffer is pretty much on the money with everything he has said regarding pop, load up (kiting vs cable) and what boards work better etc

to abesy you will find that saffer is right with the rocker at cable thing regarding pop, kiteboards cant pop for **** compared to wakeboards at cable because they dont hold as strong a edge and you dont have the ability to really tension the line suddenly like you would on a rockered up board. trust me ive ridden both types behind cable and i can safely say i can pop better on a wake.

but that being said it really does come down to the context, ie conditions and how you being pulled. with cable you have a continuous powerful pull and you cant kill the pull so you can lock a rail as hard as you possibly can n go massive, having rocker helps achieve this.
with kiting you have factors such as chop, having to stay upwind, inconsistant pull etc that need to be factored and a mellower rocker helps you keep your speed up during luls and stops you from killing your power by edging to hard.. i used to have this exact problem of edging too much with a cable style cut and killing my kite out before i could pop.

well said

snap and crackle make up 2/3 of a good board

lol

The cool Cardboards decals seem to make mine pop really well...

thats an interesting theory but i think the problems with that would be that the shape would not track up wind effectively as you'd need a big kick at the tips to compensate for the reverse rocker to stop nose dives etc, i think that works great when your riding the board flat and popping but being on an edge would make it difficult to control?

duno though im just wondering.