Whats wrong with bows.

> 10 years ago
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newcastle_justin
newcastle_justin
NSW
149 posts
NSW, 149 posts
10 Nov 2005 11:49pm
It is a bit sad I know, but some of these ignorant comments do annoy me. As such, here is my response to some of the points. I have had a bow from before they were even fully released in Aus (the shop let me purchase the very first sample as soon as it arrived). It has seen MANY hours on the water, on flat water and in the ocean. Everything from 12 knots to 35+. My sessions are usually quite long too, for example on Tuesday I was on the water for over three hours without coming in. And YES I do go for tricks which quite often send the kite smashing into the water.

Splitting struts
I pump my struts up hard and have had no problems whatsoever. I have heard of this happening in very rare cases but the kites have been replaced as as rellie says the newer kites have been fixed.

Broken bar end leading to release of rear line
Never happened to me, never seen it happen to any of the other bow users and I have not read it on any forums.

Bridles wrapping around tips of kite
Never happened to me, and not sure exactly how it could happen. I imagine it would be self rectifying.

Inversion
What people have failed to mention are that there are TWO inversion scenarios (both have happened to me). One is during flight, and this typically occurs in ballistic wind at the very top end of the kite's range. I am only 56 kg and I had my 9 CB out in 35 knots and this occurred (it is the only time this type of inversion has occurred). The important thing to realise here (note to Hung Long) IT WAS STILL SAFE. The kite was at the extreme top of its range when it inverted but I was able to regain control simply by flagging the kite as per the normal ring method.

The second type of inversion occurs when the kite hits the deck, and the lines go slack allowing the kite to roll onto its back. If the wind hit is at an odd angle it can then go inverted. This type of inversion is very easy to fix (every time it has happened to me it has self rectified). Again, SAFE.

Inversion summary
- All inversions have caused no noticeable damage, and have allowed me to relaunch - even in deep water.
- No inversion has even remotely compromised safety.

Face down relaunch
The bow does relaunch in under 5 seconds 80% of the time. But to be honest, the remaining 20% it does go face down. But even in this scenario, there are some key points:
1. Even like this it is easy to relaunch, even in deep water. It just takes slightly longer (I would say a 1-2 mins).
2. The more I get used to the bow, the less it ends up in this position.

Self launch / land
Now that I am used to it, I can self launch and land easer than a C kite. That goes for the sandy beach and the lake, light and strong wind. Can go into details if need be.

Hole in canopy
Not going to bother. Seriously!

Pulleys
I don't like to direct comments, but slave this is for you: the pulleys are Ronstan blocks. You should check out the Ronstan brand. They are the best marine pulleys you can buy, and are what are used on the top racing yachts. Speaking of yachts - I challenge you to find one with square pulleys. Seriously! My pulleys are still perfect and will be for *cough* ever.

Conclusion
You have read my response. Take it or leave it. At the end of the day, I love my bow and would never go back, totally irrespective of whatever you cynics have to say.
HungLong
HungLong
WA
859 posts
WA, 859 posts
10 Nov 2005 9:08pm
That was the funniest read I have ever had on here LMFAOBT...

User, Anton & PR, you guys bit so hard, it almost ripped the rod from my hands... I had so much fun baiting you and you fell for it !

When your backs were against the wall, good old survival technique kicked in, the abuse & comments starts flying. PR suffered the most as his mental state is not quite there due to the lack of smokes...

All in all a weak effort, you guys couldnt handle more than half a dozen of comments before you cracked. I took considerably more abuse & comments over Hellfishgate and never cracked, kept my cool even with Tim L...

Anton, best is comming out with a bow !, further more I will not be pumping it up here on the forum as their not my cupa tea. I think all bow kites are fine kite just like classic kites. But I stand by my point, there not any safer than others, it's a fact.

Unlike some of you who have been bashing either this brand or that, I can admit my bias, I'm pretty up front on here who I work for. Yeah I love my best kites, cant change that, even if I didnt work for them, I'd still be riding them. BUT I dont expect you guys for one minute to ditch your beloved bows just because there not my cupa tea.

I've seen gruzi & PR even Carbine out there on their bow's... Kicking it and having fun, I would not begrudge them that, they lovem ! and why wouldnt they it's the kite thats has taken them to the next level in their riding...

My poking fun at the bows was just that fun at PR's expence. If your gona use a tital that he did for this thread, be prepaired to take in up the ass !

I do stand by my claim that their not the safest kite on the market, and I do not believe there is any one kite that wins hands down in the safety area. My reasons for this are simply, due to the fact the kite has 100% depower there has to be a down side to this. It's pretty apparent as the kite flips inside out during some flight manuvers as gruzi stated !

PR no hard feels mate, hope you get through the cold turkey, did my self 4 years ago... BEST thing I ever did...
poor relative
poor relative
WA
9106 posts
WA, 9106 posts
10 Nov 2005 9:53pm
quote:
If your gona use a tital that he did for this thread, be prepaired to take in up the ass !

just bring the lube...
carbine
carbine
WA
1450 posts
WA, 1450 posts
10 Nov 2005 10:05pm
quote:
Originally posted by poor relative

quote:
If your gona use a tital that he did for this thread, be prepaired to take in up the ass !

just bring the lube...


will do mike.

kitecrazzzy
kitecrazzzy
WA
2184 posts
WA, 2184 posts
10 Nov 2005 10:10pm
quote:
Pulleys
I don't like to direct comments, but slave this is for you: the pulleys are Ronstan blocks. You should check out the Ronstan brand. They are the best marine pulleys you can buy, and are what are used on the top racing yachts. Speaking of yachts - I challenge you to find one with square pulleys. Seriously! My pulleys are still perfect and will be for *cough* ever.


ronstan are problem starters, cant go wrong with harken not that im product bashing but they have some problems in my yachting expearence, you can come see my old pully colection if you want proof.
gruezi
gruezi
WA
3464 posts
WA, 3464 posts
10 Nov 2005 10:11pm
Once again the thread ends in man love....we are all gay, that Tiger Tots thingy has a point.

Y'all crack me up, more than Billy Connolly at the moment

Amen, wind coming

Carbs, you master of search...what did you put in the search go get that pic?

Can anyone guess?
kitecrazzzy
kitecrazzzy
WA
2184 posts
WA, 2184 posts
10 Nov 2005 10:14pm
ahhh possum skin speedo
poor relative
poor relative
WA
9106 posts
WA, 9106 posts
10 Nov 2005 10:21pm
LMFAO
Got my good side eh?

.....you should see me naked....
waveslave
waveslave
WA
4263 posts
WA, 4263 posts
10 Nov 2005 10:52pm
Newcastle Justin wrote:

"I am only 56kg and I had my 9 CB out in 35 knots".

Man, do you really know what 35 fucn knots is ?
That's serious wind that blows small children over.
Gero might get a 35 knot seabreeze every blue moon.

I'm 70kg and I bail at 30 knots.
Get a service on your windmeter.

Regards
'slave
gruezi
gruezi
WA
3464 posts
WA, 3464 posts
10 Nov 2005 10:59pm
Agreed 100% Slave! I know that the whole thing becomes unstable at those wind speeds, can't fly it depowered at all ....a wobbly scarry mass...unless you weigh in at 120 KG and can power up just a tiny bit.
elizabethb
elizabethb
QLD
2081 posts
QLD, 2081 posts
11 Nov 2005 2:16am
quote:
Originally posted by waveslave

Newcastle Justin wrote:

"I am only 56kg and I had my 9 CB out in 35 knots".

Man, do you really know what 35 fucn knots is ?
That's serious wind that blows small children over.
Gero might get a 35 knot seabreeze every blue moon.

I'm 70kg and I bail at 30 knots.
Get a service on your windmeter.

Regards
'slave



Hit the nail on the head 'slave. I'm pretty close to his weight as I am 52-54 kgs, and today, even on a 10m kite, I couldn't hold down 23 knots gusting 25, and on a 7m kite, I could just hold down 25 knots, let alone anything more than that! You'd have to be joking! The best guys here were on 8 and 10m kites later on in 25-30 knot winds, and they're very experience, and weigh a lot more than 56 kgs! ...

The seasons slowly kicking in...
user
user
WA
1140 posts
WA, 1140 posts
11 Nov 2005 6:12am
Come off it Hung Long.
You published a list of features with NOT SAFE

Dont try to claw back some credibility by passing it off as a joke or baiting.

Your comments will come back to haunt you when you start to promote bow kites.
You are very unprofessional. You cant say anything good about Best,so you bash the opposition.Or,to be more specific,the Crossbow,which people who REALLY know whats going on are lining up to buy.
Its time that some credit was given to the majority of consumers ,who dont buy kites because the latest "hot pro" uses them. Or because they are shamelessly pimped at every opportunity by hacks on Forums.
newcastle_justin
newcastle_justin
NSW
149 posts
NSW, 149 posts
11 Nov 2005 9:38am
I don't own a wind meter. That day when I came home I checked the seabreeze charts for Norah Head (just up the road from where I was kiting) and there were gusts up to 35 knots when I was out, one in particular around the time that my kite inverted. Incidentally, it wasn't a seabreeze.

If you would like to kite in such winds, I suggest you get a Crossbow! That, or tell me that the Seabreeze charts were wrong.
Pauloz
Pauloz
VIC
116 posts
VIC, 116 posts
11 Nov 2005 10:02am
Sorry Waveslave and Elisabethb - but you're wrong.

I now have 3 crossbows. The first time I rode one was 30-40 knots on a 9 crossbow. I am 96 KG and it wasn't an issue - yes the kite was was sheeted out (all the way at times. What was amazing was that my mates some of whom are only 65 kgs also rode this hideous day and no one - light or heavy was overpowered. They were well sheeted out but the crossbow does do this. I have no trouble beleiving these claims.

I do agree with you that most people don't realy know what 40knts is.
The water was being blown off the surface and hitting you in the legs in the higest gusts, but the kites was working.

Myself and others wrote a detailed report of this on kiteforum http://www.kiteforum.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=2318064&highlight=

Cheers
nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
11 Nov 2005 7:15am
quote:
Originally posted by keithbavarianswearingbear

quote:
Originally posted by kiterdan

slave,
I think phil was elduding to your overwhelming 'expertise' in kiting technology and marketing that appears in 95% of your posts.


Dan, suggest you go back and correct typo [eluding] or you will leave yourself open for a response




Keith, the word is "alluding", not "eluding". As in, I'm alluding that the correct meaning of this word is eluding you.

Geez, if you're going to be a grammar nazi, at least do it properly! Gives us real grammar nazis a bad name, ya know? Sheesh
nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
11 Nov 2005 7:16am
quote:
Originally posted by keithbavarianswearingbear

quote:
Originally posted by kiterdan

slave,
I think phil was elduding to your overwhelming 'expertise' in kiting technology and marketing that appears in 95% of your posts.


Dan, suggest you go back and correct typo [eluding] or you will leave yourself open for a response




Keith, the word is "alluding", not "eluding". As in, I'm alluding that the correct meaning of this word is eluding you.

Geez, if you're going to be a grammar nazi, at least do it properly! Gives us real grammar nazis a bad name, ya know? Sheesh
Spacemonkey!
Spacemonkey!
SA
2288 posts
SA, 2288 posts
11 Nov 2005 9:59am
Or maybe you bow flyers are just spewin that you spent 2g's on a kite that inverts and has teething problems when you could of bought three fun best kites!

Anyone that bashes best kites has obviously not flown them so should shut the hell up.
user
user
WA
1140 posts
WA, 1140 posts
11 Nov 2005 7:48am
No. Bow flyers aren't "spewin". They heap praise on their bows.

They are really happy to have spent the money on ONE kite that does what 3 Best kites do !

The "teething problems and inverting " is an exageration by brainless bashers .

you are so jealous I can feel it !

Why do some people feel the need to bash Bows? Whats your problem ?

Inferiority complex caused by acute inferiority is my guess !

You are the one "spewin"! Spewin bullhsit !

No one is bashing Best kites. Its all in your mind! (what little there is of it ! )

I am asking why Bow bashers usually finish up with "I really like my Yargas"
Like I said,a complex.
So,actually you should be spewin'

Spewin that you have to buy 3 kites to do what one Bow can do.
Spewin that a 12m bow will go past you on your 16m ,and outperform it in general.
Spewin when you drop your kite and have to turn it over,swim at it etc,while the Bow relaunches in 10 seconds by pulling one line.
Spewin when the wind picks up 30 + and you have to come in while the bows keep cruising.
The proof is in the pudding.
I am sure there are Bows where you are.I bet they are shtign all over you!
Spacemonkey!
Spacemonkey!
SA
2288 posts
SA, 2288 posts
11 Nov 2005 10:38am
actually my last post was about bow jealousy not me bashing crossbows.

As for me having a 16m we dont ride in that crap here, if it aint good on a 12m it aint good, or smaller kites for that matter.

And i have a slingshot fuel as well so that hardly makes me biased. I can fly in 14-30' something knots with a kite quiver (8, 11) and my kites don't become ASS when there at the ends of their range. Sure you can hold a bow in heaps but you have to sheet out all the time making it feel like your flying a shopping bag. There is only one bow at my local spot and it aint ****tin on me. Guess what my kites relaunch in under 10 secs by pulling one line, 5TH LINE.

Just because you an hold a 12 m in 12-30 knots or wateva doesnt mean they are good to fly in 12-30 knots. They have a sweet range just like traditional kites.

Bow

12 knots-----16 knots-------23knots------30 knots
(very rough estimate)

3 kite quiver
16m---------12m-----------9m

12 knots-----16 knots-------23knots------30 knots
(very rough estimate)

I can't wait to be slammed for those estimates
poor relative
poor relative
WA
9106 posts
WA, 9106 posts
11 Nov 2005 8:31am
chimp boy
you reckon that anyone who bashes best has never tried one, i guess you've given the bows real good work outs in variable conditions eh??
My bow is sweet.
elizabethb
elizabethb
QLD
2081 posts
QLD, 2081 posts
11 Nov 2005 10:40am
So much hostility guys! Just agree to disagree because this will go on for another ten pages...

Go catch some waves, or someone please send some wind over your way!!! [}:)]
poor relative
poor relative
WA
9106 posts
WA, 9106 posts
11 Nov 2005 8:50am
quote:
Originally posted by elizabethb

So much hostility guys! Just agree to disagree because this will go on for another ten pages...

Go catch some waves, or someone please send some wind over your way!!! [}:)]



Elizabeth, you are always the voice of reason and as usual correct.
Sorry....

Geez i want a smoke
Mr Plow
Mr Plow
VIC
428 posts
VIC, 428 posts
11 Nov 2005 11:53am
Weight, riding style, board size and type of wind in that strength e.g. gusty, up high etc all effect how much wind you can ride comfortably.

I have found since sticking a 5th line on my kites I have much more top end....not that I like kiting right at the top end - but it sees me safely thru the gusts...not squalls though.

I weigh in at a trim 90kgs The wind ranges on my kites are (and I do usually have 3 boards on the beach to save changing kite).

18m - 10 knots to 20 knots - sweeeet at 15knots
14m - 17 knots to 27 knots - sweeeet at low 20's
10m - 25 knots to 35 knots - sweeeet at high 20's

I've also got a 5m...mainly for landboarding & teaching but also just in case

Also - as an afterthought - wind speed is not a fair comparison between different kiting sites...for example 20 knots in Melbourne is for some reason a helluva lot stronger than 20 knots in Cairns..dont know why - probably something to do with air density?
elizabethb
elizabethb
QLD
2081 posts
QLD, 2081 posts
11 Nov 2005 11:03am
quote:
Originally posted by poor relative

quote:
Originally posted by elizabethb

So much hostility guys! Just agree to disagree because this will go on for another ten pages...

Go catch some waves, or someone please send some wind over your way!!! [}:)]



Elizabeth, you are always the voice of reason and as usual correct.
Sorry....

Geez i want a smoke



Cheers poor rell... Glad your going to be a 'good boy' now [}:)]
anton
anton
202 posts
202 posts
11 Nov 2005 10:52am
Hey spacemonkey, heed your your own words and quit whilst you are ahead... You never have flown a Crossbow! You will never fly a Crossbow because it is obvious that your use of the term 'we' implies your friends are imaginary! Beware of shisters selling over inflated and inferior goods from the the back of minivans - this includes stereo speakers and BestKites

Edit: removed the bit about ya mother.
Jimbow
Jimbow
WA
27 posts
WA, 27 posts
11 Nov 2005 11:12am
Love the graphs!! Would elaborate:

Bow

12 knots-----16 knots-------23knots------30 knots
(very rough estimate)

3 kite quiver
18m---------14m-----------9m

12 knots-----16 knots-------23knots------30 knots

3 kite quiver plus bow
18m---------14m-----------9m

12 knots-----16 knots-------23knots------30 knots------40knots

Unless my bow inverts, flips a tip or invents a new way to bugger things up:

[}:)]Swim in.
12 knots-----16 knots-------23knots------30 knots

Still I love the thing - don't know why but I do. So much for a smaller quiver - I'm onto a four kite quiver now - thanks Cabrinha!!

Jim
Mr Plow
Mr Plow
VIC
428 posts
VIC, 428 posts
11 Nov 2005 2:12pm
Gee - this puts the whole Ford vs Holden debate into the shadows

Its about as important too...
Mr Plow
Mr Plow
VIC
428 posts
VIC, 428 posts
11 Nov 2005 2:19pm

0 beers-----1 beer-------3 beers------8 beers------Lotsa beers
Mr Plow
Mr Plow
VIC
428 posts
VIC, 428 posts
11 Nov 2005 2:21pm
quote:
Originally posted by anton

Beware of shisters selling over inflated and inferior goods from the the back of minivans - this includes stereo speakers and BestKites






You couldnt sell an inflated kite from the back of a minivan...I mean it wouldnt fit unless it was a trainer...
HungLong
HungLong
WA
859 posts
WA, 859 posts
11 Nov 2005 11:21am
quote:
Originally posted by user

Come off it Hung Long.
You published a list of features with NOT SAFE

Dont try to claw back some credibility by passing it off as a joke or baiting.

Your comments will come back to haunt you when you start to promote bow kites.
You are very unprofessional. You cant say anything good about Best,so you bash the opposition.Or,to be more specific,the Crossbow,which people who REALLY know whats going on are lining up to buy.
Its time that some credit was given to the majority of consumers ,who dont buy kites because the latest "hot pro" uses them. Or because they are shamelessly pimped at every opportunity by hacks on Forums.



Whats your point USER !, I did post a list of features with NOT SAFE !... Please find for me where I retracted the statement on here that it was a joke !. that's right you cant cause I did'nt !

"Dont try to claw back some credibility by passing it off as a joke or baiting."

I was'nt !, I dont feel the need to claw back cred as you put it !, I've never felt the need to follow peer pressure, I go my own way !, I could'nt give two sheit's what you think of me, I'll tell it how I see it every time, Yeah I'll pimp our product when ever I get the chance, thats one of my job's !. If you cant tell the difference thats your problem !

"Your comments will come back to haunt you when you start to promote bow kites."

No they wont, cause I challenge you to find where on this forum I've totally written the kite off, actually there is one post in the whole thread where i've said that and that was a comment back to PR taking the piss... However I still challenge you to find posts where I slagged the crap out of them, I simply state the truth that there not the safest kite on the market, cause 100% depower comes with a trade off, everything comes at a price of some sort !

"You are very unprofessional. You cant say anything good about Best,so you bash the opposition.Or,to be more specific,the Crossbow..."

Personal attacks are your choice are they... I learnt along time ago that if you wish to choose that road you'l come unstuck very quickly !. I can speak volumes of good stuff about bestkiteboarding, however this was not the thread to speak it in, it was about crossbows... Or more to the point "whats wrong with bow's" if you didnt read the thread tital !. On another point, please tell us all where I have made attacks on the "opposition" ?

regards browneee@best
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