kites don't kill people, man, people kill people. Yeah.

You got a point though. I just don't know how easy it is to let go - I've pulled the safety a couple of times in anger but I assume from the sheer number of people who do not let go that there is something in the 'hang on and die' response that is really difficult to overcome. I've even seen this response amongst people who launch unhooked (which I do not agree with in general), unless is gets yanked out of their hands.

Maybe bars should have; 'Just let me go!' printed on them....

This is the exact point.

the weak link in the safety chain is the user.

therefore the need to focus on that user knowing and practising what to do. not be saying how safe this kite is compared to that in an effort to make a sale.

quote:

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Originally posted by RAL INN

This is the exact point.

the weak link in the safety chain is the user.

therefore the need to focus on that user knowing and practising what to do. not be saying how safe this kite is compared to that in an effort to make a sale.

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Hm, now you sound just like fokiten

Are you some kind of:

( add your favorite kp slag here )

Silivu, you didn't see it coming, and you got splattered,that's how it works.

Lessons? hm, they just put you below the bar.


The facts are stacked like cordwood...

Good luck out there

once you are lofted pulling the qr and landing on rocks doesnt seem as inviting as sticking it out and hitting a comparably soft tree.
i dont trust the push the bar away and hope you dont have any other problems method

quote:

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Originally posted by silviu
2 second the kite starts to pick up speed - still all OK

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kite picking up speed after launch? shouldn't you perhaps hover the kite at ground level before you send it?

*ALL* of the launch incidents i have seen at peli (and yes unfortunately too many) have been caused by the kiter sending immediately on launch either unintentionally from a tangled line or because ppl for some reason seem to want to put the kite to 12 oclock as soon as possible. (oh an incidently, every single incident was compounded by launching TOO CLOSE TO SHORE)

i dont think you should lift the kite off the deck until you can feel the kite is flying right and the wind is not doing silly things.

from this point if anything goes you have some chance of diving the kite at the ground without getting nailed, unhooking and throwing the bar (5th line), or pulling the pin.

if you really want to be picky, you can fly the kite WHILE STILL IN THE LAUNCHERS HANDS and the LAUNCHER should be able to tell if the kite is flying right (* if your in the right position to launch to start with)

$0.02 :)

How about training new kiters to launch and land single handed with the other hand holding the quick release until the kite is under control?

Its how I do it.

quote:

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Originally posted by junglist

How about training new kiters to launch and land single handed with the other hand holding the quick release until the kite is under control?

Its how I do it.

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Well yeah,
That's how my mates and I approach the sport.

But independence comes from having backgrounds in solo sports like surfing and wavesailing...
not to mention the empty beaches with not a soul around.

But the teaching of kitesurfing took a more dependent path some years ago.
Unfortunately there is no I in 'teamwork'.
Self-landing and self-launching has been largely ignored by the gurus.
They champion fully assisted kiting.
It's safer they argue.

Assisted kiting is convenient for the gurus and it probably speeds up the lesson programme.
Of course superfluous assistance comes at the expense of learning self-preservation.

Kitesurfing is a solo sport.
Someone will always be the last to leave the beach and the first to launch.
Kite bettys are really self-defeating .

yes, i think for the first couple of years that i kited, everyone loaded sand on their wingtips and seriously checked their lines and self launched (emphasis on yourself to kite safely)and pulled the safety to land.

a number of years later do many kiters actually posess these skills?

or is the "gidday mate how about a launch?" thing taken over.

well obviously!

I think its simply solved. One hand on safety and before letting go of the kite, check the bridle, the person who is being launched should also check and only give the thumbs up when he/she is happy.

There are two problems at hand. There is no reason to go overboard with this, the one problem is largely related to those who are in too much of a hurry to launch someone so they throw it in the air or launch as soon as they can so they can get on with their own session, it takes 10 seconds of their time to check the kite.

The second relates to those who won't let go. Sad reality is if the problem at hand is not letting go, its not just a launch problem, its going to be a problem when they getting dragged overpowered while riding or lose control of their kite at any stage.

What can I say, this topic can go on and on, but still I have ths big problem, no one answered to me:
to launch hooked or un-hooked?
In my opinion, if launchiing un-hooked (using a de-powering leash) the chances "to let go" earlier (before you are airborne or hitting a stationary hard object) are better.
How can we achieve this with the new bow kites?

quote:

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Originally posted by silviu

What can I say, this topic can go on and on, but still I have ths big problem, no one answered to me:
to launch hooked or un-hooked?

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i personally feel i have better control of the kite launching hooked in. i don't use donkey/camel/dick/etc things when launching.

Well,

Let's try to focus here:

Self launching suffers from several ills, the most threatening being picking up a snag, assisted launch is better.

Unhooked? that just doesn't make any sense:

first off you're leashed, so no you're still hooked-in, in the mis-rigged (Silviu) senerio.

Bottom line here unfortunately, goes all the way back to Robbie Naish's 1999 statement,

" Kiting is not for 99.9% of people, but for the 0.01% of the rest..."

That's just how it is/was, then and now.

Then and now it's still the same truth:

Pimping kiting by exploiting the word safety is just wrong.

Good luck is still the only proper thing to say...

ottis

Ral, there's a couple things that are just plain stupid!

If you allways ensure your lines are attatched correctly ie connected and untangled, and there is nothing on the ground to tangle your lines, you should never, ever, EVER get a tangle in your lines! And if your launching from ontop of twigs/sticks/etc then common sense says get some1 else to launch or accept the risk of getting a tangle.

As far as launching unhooked VS hooked goes, the ammount of times I have seen people launch unhooked, back stall the kite because of having too much back line tension and either smash into the beach or get pulled straight up the beach into the dunes because the kite is effectively powered up when they launch , far outweighs any incident I have ever seen for launching hooked in, which happens to be zero. When you do launch unhooked and the wind is honking, how much harder is it to steer the kite when the bar's being pulled out of your hands and inevitabley a little turn up sends you flying into the air.

But as I said, if your lines aren't tangled there's almost zero chance of something going wrong, the best depower available is if you are hooked in , and IF you are hooked in , nothing is going to go wrong that should stop you from depowering and if more is required, engaging safety.

And PS if you think it's too windy to put your kite up, let it sit a meter or two off the ground from where you launched fully depowered, if you can't hold it down there standing up, then engage the safety then, don't put your kite up to 12 oclock to engage your safety.!!!!!!!!!

quote:

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Originally posted by waveslave

Self-landing and self-launching has been largely ignored by the gurus.....
Someone will always be the last to leave the beach and the first to launch.

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quote:

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Originally posted by greenleader

yes, i think for the first couple of years that i kited, everyone loaded sand on their wingtips and seriously checked their lines and self launched (emphasis on yourself to kite safely)and pulled the safety to land.

a number of years later do many kiters actually posess these skills?

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Agree with Slave & GreenLeader here. I don't see too many people these days self launching & landing. People are often surprised when I decline an assisted landing and self land. If I was to rely on others I'd miss out on a lot of sessions. In my opinion self landing/launching should be part of all beginner lessons. Is this being done?

I have a mate with crossbows and he can self launch & land these in 25 knots no problem. It is just a matter of learning the correct technique. If you can self land you then waste less time on the beach getting waiting for someone to help out.

No matter how good we think we are or how good the safety sytems are people are still going to get hurt. It is the nature of our sport. The fact that it relies on the wind and weather conditions means we are always at some risk as no one can accuratly predict any sudden changes in wind directions or weather patterns.
Everyone of us who has flown a large kite should know just how much power is being harnessed at the end of those lines. And if the feel of that power doesnt tell you that you need to be sensible and as safe as possible then you are in the wrong sport.
So people, the more we worry and highlight the dangers of our sport the more chance that many outsiders will become more concerned leading to more public complaints and possibly result in Kiting being banned in areas.( many times i have had people telling me that they would like to try it but they have heard that it is very dangerous )Yes it is dangerous but so are many sports, minimise the risks by knowing what to do.

The current safety systems on modern kites work very well. Make sure you know how to use them and if the need arrises do use it. HELP OTHER KITERS WITH ANY SITUATION. No one should have to self launch when others are present. If you are launching someone make sure you COMMUNICATE dont let their kite go untill they are ready and you know they are ready.
If you are still worried and want everyone else to worry please find another sport. Table tennis would be my recommendation (although the corners of the table are quite sharp so perhaps you could use some masking tape and a few pairs of socks to pad the corners. )
In short : know your safety system, help others , use common sense and please lets not make a big deal and moan about the safety aspects. Lets talk more about the fun.