man you know whats dangerous... the end of the bar, if you are messing around with your straps or something out in the middle of the river and let go when holding it one handed it comers around and gets you in the eye. harry potter has the right idea, im going to get a couple pairs of socks on my bar.

i think we can all agree that 5th line is the best safety system when deployed, beginners are not self reliant enough, bow bridals are their down fall, launching without checking your lines is just ****en stupid, taking a kite too big for the conditions is ..., self launching teaches more skills. anything else i missed cus anyone who want to argue these any more is wasting their time, as josh said; this topic comes up to often!

quote:

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Originally posted by waveslave

Silviu,
I've got a gut feeling you rig your lines upwind ?
Correct ?
If you rigged your lines downwind,
you can easily flight-check with clear vision by holding the upside-down bar up to your eyes and sight along.

Get mended mate.

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Not quite upwind, but from the side!
Point taken, rigging from now downwind, you right it is better.
Thanks.

Yep - it is repetitive stuff but worth repeating. Always new ideas & new kiters out there.
So my 2c worth ... again - same as before.
SLINGSHOT SUREFIRE QR - imo the safest & only WTG.
- it works every time you hit it.
- its in the same place everytime you want it.
- its the same QR action for all your kites.
- its the same QR action even when trying OP's.
- it builds another QR option into any other rig set-up.
OK it may not save me that one split second time I really need it but its great to have a system you can believe WILL work.
And as for the 'human' factor of not being ready or not quick enough or just instinctively hanging on with the 'surefire' you can practice hit it everytime you land.
There are quite a few good QR systems on newer kites but the SS Surefire can be your own common-to-all & still leave your built in system as your 1st or 2nd choice.
Its a great system - worth checking it out.

just for you jan ....
order yours today I'll see that it comes with a free set of steak knives.

any comments on axis and his refusing to assist
assist and then spend a bit of time 3 min advising on the importance of self help.
Not helping to prove a point sounds a bit harsh
But your right i have been riding for three years and i still struggle with the self land. Its because i do not practice it. Who is that friend of yours that self lands his bow in 25 to 30. I need someone to show me. And what about when there is alot of kites on the beach, self launching and landing takes alot of room don't it. And if it goes wrong you got bloody kaos

But yea self operation should be focused on more and how about a direction on the kites were to go on the net for a "free" vid on what not to do and a demonstration on self operation. **** cab probably have it i have not even checked...to lazy That i never ride alone. And while we are at it should we ever ride alone hmmmmm.

Man i never heard of launchin unhooked you kidding, i would **** myself. Is that really an option. It is so easy to dump the kites on the bows anyway. Always before i launch i wait for the rider to check his lines and give me a thumbs up.

Every "incident" i had was when i was in a real hurry

I am actually a little shocked to see people pushing beginners towards self launching all the time. Self launching and landing should only be used when there is no one else around and I've seen even experienced riders get it wrong.

Timely topic, Tony.
There have been times when you have forgotten to let go too, so have I, but I have trained myself to let go of the bar with bridled bow kites for sure.

Don't kid yourself mate, shops are not the problem, anyone selling a kite (includes private sellers here, on ebay, trading post etc), and not warning the buyer about the dangers of kiteboarding and the necessity of lessons and familiarisation with the safety system of the kite definitely is part of the problem though.

I would gues that over summer for every 1 new kite that is sold by a shop or mobile trader like you, there is at least 1 used kite sold on the second hand market. I'm fairly sure that the majority of new kites are sold with adequate warnings, advice, and lessons. Not so sure about the used kite buyers, they are a high proportion of the problem kiters in my area.

Generalisations are pointless, I know most of the kite/sellers/shop owners in Melbourne and none of them would promote kites the was you imply.

No style of kite is 100% safe, not even the brand you hype and sell and make the most profit from.

Yesterday I witnessed again a major problem with the majority of kiters. They do not understand their own kites safety system and how it works, and these are very experienced kiters in most cases!!!

Wind is a solid 28-32 knots, person comes in with a 12m Crossbow, gets dragged across the beach heading for trees, pedestrians, etc, while lowering the kite looking for someone to catch it. Oldmate catches it.
Rider is obviously not aware that simply letting go of the bar will stop him being pulled/dragged.

I come in 90 mins later on a 9M CB2 and lower the kite to the beach side and let go of the bar, no dragging or pulling, kite sits docily at the edge of the window.

Riders of bow kites need to understand that the primary safety system is to let go of the bar. This must be practiced in all winds so that it becomes second nature.

Also there is an optimal and emergency wind range for bridled bow style kites, continually riding in the emergency range is pointless and is only adding an unneccessary element of risk. If big air is what is wanted you will always jump higher on a kite in its "optimal range".

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve

Just when it was safe to go back in the water.

quote:

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you have forgotten to let go too

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Actually I class myself in the "I can save this" clique.

quote:

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Don't kid yourself mate, shops are not the problem

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So all these kiters are managing to by SH kites in mint condition with new kite creases.

quote:

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new kite that is sold by a shop or mobile trader like you

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That should read "a shop or shop that personally delivers and kites with their customers".

quote:

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Not so sure about the used kite buyers, they are a high proportion of the problem kiters in my area.

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These guys are still KITERS and it is the sport's best interest to help them overcome this imposed stigma.

quote:

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Yesterday I witnessed again a major problem with the majority of kiters. They do not understand their own kites safety system and how it works, and these are very experienced kiters in most cases!!!
Rider is obviously not aware that simply letting go of the bar will stop him being pulled/dragged.

---

All who could only have bought their kites S/H.

while letting go of a bar may well be the primary safety system on a kite. the fact remains the kiters need far more then a statement of this ideal, in order to put it into effective practice.

Hi Tony

Keep it real is all mate, there was never any way you were going to "save it" that day you did the backwards headfirst rib busting railey.

Going out with too much kite after you had been warned about the gusty conditions was part of the problem, and not letting go or ditching was another part.

And there are other parts, and I assume you have learned from the experience. I'm glad you were ok and have healed up well though.

It is not the shops or the sellers responsibility ultimately, we all know that. I think all the shops and sellers in Melbourne are doing the best job they can, but there will always be people who will ignore advice, and we all know that too.

All riders, experienced or otherwise must take full responsibility for their own actions. No one from any shop is holding a gun to their head and forcing them to pump up the kite and use it without fully understanding how to safely depower it, or when, where, and how to use it.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve

quote:

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Originally posted by RAL INN

Just when it was safe to go back in the water.

quote:

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you have forgotten to let go too

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Actually I class myself in the "I can save this" clique.

quote:

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Don't kid yourself mate, shops are not the problem

---

So all these kiters are managing to by SH kites in mint condition with new kite creases.

quote:

---

new kite that is sold by a shop or mobile trader like you

---

That should read "a shop or shop that personally delivers and kites with their customers".

quote:

---

Not so sure about the used kite buyers, they are a high proportion of the problem kiters in my area.

---

These guys are still KITERS and it is the sport's best interest to help them overcome this imposed stigma.

quote:

---

Yesterday I witnessed again a major problem with the majority of kiters. They do not understand their own kites safety system and how it works, and these are very experienced kiters in most cases!!!
Rider is obviously not aware that simply letting go of the bar will stop him being pulled/dragged.

---

All who could only have bought their kites S/H.

while letting go of a bar may well be the primary safety system on a kite. the fact remains the kiters need far more then a statement of this ideal, in order to put it into effective practice.

---

I have to agree with you Ralinn, the more we can help out newbies the better, and I reckon encouraging practice/rehearsal before going out is crucial, and I know it's a hassle you just want to get on the water, but I have noticed a few bodies getting lofted and dragged recently, and it just needs to happen where the innocent bystander gets hurt etc. and you watch everyone crackdown on us. I don't think anyone other than our own actions is what will get us banned, and I might be a pesimist, but I too think I'm seeing more kiting accidents recently?

quote:

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Originally posted by safetybayboy

I have to agree with you Ralinn, the more we can help out newbies the better, and I reckon encouraging practice/rehearsal before going out is crucial, and I know it's a hassle you just want to get on the water, but I have noticed a few bodies getting lofted and dragged recently, and it just needs to happen where the innocent bystander gets hurt etc. and you watch everyone crackdown on us. I don't think anyone other than our own actions is what will get us banned, and I might be a pesimist, but I too think I'm seeing more kiting accidents recently?

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Well said, and as long as, we publicise the good and bad examples, we progress the sport. Extreme sport without safety and commonsense cannot be an extreme sport.
And this is what some MONKEYS cannot understand, because the're just MONKEYS comming from the outer space.

quote:

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is proper licensing for both teachers and students such an outlandish idea when a blanket ban could be the alternative?

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Finally someone has said it!!!!!

I feel that the issue is not whether we cripple and kill ourselves, but whether we hurt members of the general public!

The majority of kiters are responsible people that take more than enough care to ensure the safety of those around them. Unfortunately the element of stupidity exists as it does in all sports. In kiting however this stupidity can result in someone else getting seriously f**ked up.

What will it take to minimise the stupid factor?

Here are the options as I see it (feel free to add more):

1. Ban all kitesurfing.
2. All kitesurfers must obtain a liscence after comprehensive practical and written testing. All kites are registered and must be maintained in a reasonable safe condition.
3. Ban all kitesurfing in all areas except designated spots that are exclusively used by kiters.

I see the second option as being the most viable and would drastically reduce the amount and severity of incidents. It would put a large amount of legitimacy into the sport and would support a larger teaching industry.

Having identifying numbers on your kite will also make the idiots accountable to the stupid things they may do.

quote:

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Originally posted by richo

any comments on axis and his refusing to assist
assist and then spend a bit of time 3 min advising on the importance of self help.
Not helping to prove a point sounds a bit harsh

---

Hey Richo, when I wrote "People are often surprised when I decline an assisted landing and self land." it does not mean I refuse to launch and land others - I do this all the time. It means that often when people offer to assist me I say don't bother, I'll move out of the way and do it myself. It's good practice. Think you misinterpreted. Read again.

Was out in 25-30 knots on Monday and gladly accepted assistance landing. Thanks to the guy who helped. My point (like others)is that in 15 knots I see guys hanging around on the beach waiting for someone to help land their kite. If I needed to rely on others to launch and land me I'd always have to wait until someone was free and could never have a solo kite. I'd also only be able to come in when someone else was finished or rigging up.

My mate in Melbourne lands his crossbows by hovering them 2 to 3 metres above the beach at the edge of the window hooked in. He stays hooked in, turns the kite sharply down and lets go of the bar. As he does this he grabs the upper rear line and pulls in a couple of metres. This lands the kite LE down into the wind, much like the traditional rear line self landing on C kites. He stays hooked on on the bow in case it f$%ks up so the kite won't run away. I've been with him many times in melbourne & Sandy Point when he has been overpowered on a 9 crossbow and done this. Not sure if anyone in your area uses this technique - if you try it do it in light winds to practice.

I'm done with this.

Also, to the kiters at Brighton in Melbourne, please remember to keep your kite low when passing downwind and high when upwind. Also, look before you turn.

Cheers, James
p.s. I'm over this topic.

hold up there flyingwhiteboy, think that through-
who's going to conduct these tests, check on kite condition
will tourists have to do the same thing...
who ends up paying for this...
as if anyone wouldn't be given a licence any way...
its not that people cant kite thats the problem its when the **** hits the fan...

licencing would not solve even half the problems-to have a licencing structure you need an organising authority and a set of reprimands for actions we dont want either!

hope no one mentions a full out licencing system again, waksa membership should be urged for the 3rd party insurance though and beginners are not to hard to deal with.

WTF TonyL

the only times this forum really gets some excitment happeneing is when you and KP steve get into each other.

here we have a classic thread going along just nicely then steve jumps on the bandwagon attacks you with comments like

""Keep it real is all mate, there was never any way you were going to "save it" that day you did the backwards headfirst rib busting railey.""

and

"Don't kid yourself mate, shops are not the problem"

and

"mobile trader like you"

and

"I know most of the kite/sellers/shop owners in Melbourne and none of them would promote kites the was you imply."

and

"No style of kite is 100% safe, not even the brand you hype and sell and make the most profit from."

I can't believe You are letting him get away with this personal attack

He even goes on to attack kiters who buy secondhand. Then turns it all into a Cabrina pimpout.

So come on RALINN the challenge is out. Show us a blast from the past and AvAgo ya mug. I want to have an enjoyable read as you lay waste steve and his smug knowitall attitude with some of that verbal magic we are used to.

who knows, another fiary tale maybe coming.

Freed.