QLD
550 posts
I never had lessons to teach me how to set my lines up and just worked out the best way from the instructions if the lite had any and common sense. I would like to know why the instructors in the brisbane area and anywhere else for that mater teach their students to set their lines out in front of their kite which is directly up wind of the kite when layed leading edge down.
I may not get down to my local beach as much as I would like and get great pleasure from people I have never met telling me that they rig this way because everyone does it and thats how they were taught and I'm the one who is incorrect and need to rethink how I should lay my lines.
The beach is narrow about 30m from water to top of beach and only 90m long and gets crowded very quickly with the wind always from cross onshore to side shore from both directions. I notice when these people need to launch their kites some need to lift all their lines over other kites so that they can walk down to the water and get positioned to the side of the wind window for a safe launch. Others like to head up to the tree line because they don't have to climb over other kites and in one beginners words I was told it's safer up just in front of the trees than down near the water. I also notice when a beginner gets their friend to lift up the kite and the lines have tension on them, the person who is holding the kite with little experiense struggles hard to try and rotate the kite over and then try to walk to the windows edge. With the beginner on the other end pulling on the lines powering up the kite it makes it difficult for the person launching to hold back the power of the kite and I see a lot of hot launches all the time.
I'm still trying to work out how I land my kite without crossing other lines on the beach. It's a pain when you want to come in for a few minutes for a drink and then find your lines are in the way of someone setting up.
So I need advice on why I should stop setting my lines up across the wind so I'm not in conflict with all the other people on the beach. I like the way I do it because I never have to drag my lines over other kites and when I launch I just walk back a few steps. I also notice I land and launch with my lines in the same direction.
I have never had lessons so I'm willing to hear what the instructors have to say on this and even better what the instructors in Brisbane have to say on this. As the beaches get crowded we all need to get along and some silly little things like lines laying over others can get things heated.
Rant over
Alex
QLD
485 posts
Hi Alex
When I first introduce a student to a 4 (or 5) line set up, I do it this way to make it as easy as possible for them to understand the bar layout compared to kite orientation without adding more confusing steps like turning the bar upside down. This is for the first time only.
As we are setting up though, I do explain the exact situations you mention above and advise them to be considerate of all other beach users and kiters and go with the flow as to how the majority of people are rigging or have their lines set out.
Next time we set up it is from the side (as I always do personally) and from then on it is the always this way.
Funnily enough, it is the more expeienced guys who keep running their bars out the front which is a real pain I agree. I take it up with them and they refuse to change as 'that's how I do it'!
Maybe you should be talking to them as well!
cya
Kurt
QLD
550 posts
Kurt thanks for the reply
No more experienced riders at the beach really any more as the crowds have taken over and it mainly beginners now.
So I take it you agree with the cross wind setup.
I agree lots of experienced riders do it but I would like to know why other instructors still teach the into the wind method when they should know about crowds and safety.
I think if you take coin out of a beach then you should have some responsibility for making sure the beach is safe.
QLD
485 posts
Trouble is, the latest breed of new kiter is a self learner, with his mates, with the lastest hyped gear and nfi. Eg Crossbow and Queens!!
This is why I mainly kite and teach now at more isolated spots, and
also am being very selective in who I teach as to their overall suitabilty to the sport from my perspective - I don't need the coin or the headache!!
There are lots more points as well to help ease the congestion, like kite at zenith in the middle of the beach and so on.
We can vent our frustrations on a forum but it's pretty useless.
Best to approach people on the day and explain what they are doing wrong or simply head to a nicer spot!
Regardless, people are people and we can't change everything.
Let's hope there's not too many kites under christmas trees this year!
QLD
60 posts
Hey Alex,
I agree with what Kurt has said. I tend to get people to put their lines upwind of the kite, so that the bar is "right way up" when they untangle their lines. Statistically people remember about 10% in any learning situation of what they are told. So thinking about all the important peices of information that someone is given in a first lesson: If I don't need to explain about putting your bar upsidedown when you walk downwind, or making sure that you attach you lines without tangling them over the kite, etc, then hopefully they remember something else that is really important, like "attach your outside lines to the BACK of the kite".
I can appreciate it gets crowded at Brighton, if there are a few people there, I try to stick to the right hand side, which is used less. But if I am in the way at times, I may not have noticed, so I would be happy to move if someone asked.
Catchya round. Lynita
QLD
60 posts
With regards to keeping the beach safe. There are wanna-be kiters that don't think they need any lessons and they cause chaos at the beach. If instructors weren't available for more responsible people to take a lesson then the percentage of chaos on the beach would be much greater. My best intention, it to help people become "safe kitesurfers", and I am sure that is the case with other instructors too.
If I didn't need the "coin" I wouldn't teach (I'm a uni student - with a huge insurance bill) and I'd be happy to get my weekends back. BUT - that doesn't mean safety is still a major concern. One accident would just not be worth it, for a few "coins".
(my 2-cents)
NSW
298 posts
Logically I would agree that across the wind would be best, however from what I have seen at some of the beaches around Sydney, there just isnt enough beach to set the lines across the wind and there are so many kites on these narrow stretches that just to stack the kites setting the lines along the beach is the best. Anyhow you need two to launch so the main issue seems to be dropping and relaunching when you want a breather or by yourself.
I've been learning the same method as by hardcarve, and have a similar background in water sports, I watched the instructional videos, watched on the beach, had a practice with a trainer, had an experienced mate give me some pointers and then practiced in light winds far away from any other kites. From the start I was very surprised and then aware of the power and the issues and agree that most punters should take lessons. The safest thing I do is to always launched to the water and never be hooked in.
The big issue I see from a beginners perspective is that you want to hang near the beach and not bob around in the deep, so there are limited places to go and learn.
Just on the lesson thing, as newby I would say the main reason why I didnt take lessons was purely on the cost $70hr. With the second hand kite market so cheap I simply figured that I could buy a kite and have a go for the price of the lessons, if I dint like it I could sell the kite and not loose too much.
Also I use a PL and self launch, self land, it would have to be one of the best things about them, that independence and no pumps. So I to lay my lines along the beach, well at 45 deg to the wind.
QLD
1293 posts
Hi Al,
Good to see you are taking your concerns to the masses as we spoke about. Now hopefully Laurie will let you run a poll.
QLD
550 posts
Ok thanks, I now completly understand.[}:)]
By the way, the beginners I chatted to were all locally taught and after spending some time explaining things and helping them see the light all agreed they now prefer to do cross wind setting up with the lines to the front of the kite. So you don't have to do the bar down thing.
Look it's just a small thing but can save so much frustration at the beach. AND BECAUSE I HAVE A BROKEN FINGER AND CAN"T KITE I NEED TO LET OFF STEAM.
SA
2288 posts
I run my lines up directly upwind because it is the easiest i find to undo twists and tangles. When walking your lines out then towards the kite you are walking downwind and any slack in the line is blown in the direction you are walking. This seems the easiest way for me. Cross wind i have found to be extremely difficult in comparrision and downwind can be useful when undoing tangle is your kite has flipped as you can see before you launch if the tangles are out.
Either way makes no difference, i think that upwind is the easiest personally.
WA
238 posts
I lay out upwind or downwind depending on the amount of room in either direction, and with consideration to other kiters I always bring my bar back up next to my kite, therefore only using 15 metres of beach instead of 30 or so metres.
I prefer to lay out down wind when possible as this means I can check my lines from the bar by just putting tension on the outside lines and making sure they dont cross over with the inside lines. This method also means I dont get a line caught around a wing tip if someone is launching me.
These are just my personal thoughts, but remember there are many ways to 'skin a cat' and as long as it is safe and courteous to other beach users (not just kiters), then it is really up to personal preference.
WA
4263 posts
I'm a downwind guy for line rigging.
Most other kiters I see rig upwind.
I'm probably doing it the illogical way, cause the bar needs to be upside down for the lines to be right.
WA
1450 posts
downwind for me. My bar is exactly the same either way up so i dont worry about which way it has to be. Just look at the kite and see which lines go where.
I wrap my lines up properly so I never have any tangles so downwind isnt a problem.
You can actually see where the lines are going and tell if they are connected properly or not. Upwind is a bit harder to see, and with a bow kite it complicates things further.
WA
859 posts
Thank god someone has opend up this topic, cause I always wondered why some people rigged that way !
My personal anal retentive method is like this...
My bar is color coded as is the lines & pig tails...
lay lines out down wind RED SIDE RIGHT...
launch with a little PORT (red) LEFT in the bottle...
also helps when nailing tricks and need to grab correct side of bar !
WA
1119 posts
lines downwind = less chance to cross or tangle... no brainer for me kthx
