Damn - not good at all.

Is it time to take up land boarding in the resultant dust bowl?

www.seabreeze.com.au/gallery/gallery.asp?imageid=2720

wow - that place is definatly missing a lot of water

I've done work in Saudi Arabia and almost all non-drinking water comes from desalinised water. It works great and smells fine, we used bottled water for drinking. I definitely think its worth looking into...

Trouble is that drinking water is not really the issue, with agriculture using 70% of total water consumption and households only using 8%.

http://www.urbanecology.org.au/topics/wateruse.html

The amount of energy that would have to be used to desalinate the necessary water to supply shortages within farming communities is frightening and until there are food shortages in this country or a cheap and renewable energy source is found, it is neither environmentally nor economically viable.

Realistically there may be no future option other than to scale back traditional farming and introduce drought resistant crops where possible.

Scary stuff!

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Originally posted by junglist

The amount of energy that would have to be used to desalinate the necessary water to supply shortages within farming communities is frightening and until there are food shortages in this country or a cheap and renewable energy source is found, it is neither environmentally nor economically viable.

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Im no tree hugger, but this issue of renewable energy not existing is crazy.

Northern WA has some of the higest tidal ranges in the world, tidal (and to some extent wave) energy generation is old technology and although may not produce a huge amount of power, is extremly reliable. So thats one source.

Its also really quite windy here (good for us kiters), maybe not all the time, but there is a huge scope for wind farms in the un/less popoulated areas of the Austrlian Coastline.

The sun also shines alot. Kind of why theres no water. So solar energy is prefectly viable.

Individually, these cannot provide a huge source of power, but used in conjunction I reckon they present realistic proposition. I understand the arguments regarding capitol cost, but people must realise that reliable sources of renewable extist now?

Only problem with the desalination process is the remaining salt. Where do you store it? You can't introduce it back into the sea for obvious reasons and you cant exactly store it underground...its just going to build up.
Also, the whole thing with renewable energy resourses is that it isn't economically the most viable option at present. Unfortunately, fossil fuels are still the cheapest to produce and most efficient.
They say that the economic effects of global warming will be equivalent to the 2 world wars so we'll see what turns out more economically viable in a few years time.

Doesn't help when your prime minister is a skeptic of the global warming theory.

Originally posted by Oakie

Individually, these cannot provide a huge source of power, but used in conjunction I reckon they present realistic proposition. I understand the arguments regarding capitol cost, but people must realise that reliable sources of renewable extist now?

I could not agree more.

The solar project in Mildura is a step in the right direction and once the coal has run out this country faces a stark choice between renewables and nuclear. Having experienced Chernobyl at close range I know what I prefer.

However, in a country that has a surplus of food, subsidizing farming is more about preserving ways of life than securing national interests. It may be heart breaking but is it really an effective use of dwindling resources to spend energy desalinating water and pumping it into the country to grow crops that we do not need?

this continent simply does not have enough water to sustain the population, most of oz is not arable and it is extremely dry; the place cant support 20 million humans.

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Originally posted by nebbian

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Originally posted by kiterdan

Only problem with the desalination process is the remaining salt. Where do you store it? You can't introduce it back into the sea for obvious reasons and you cant exactly store it underground...its just going to build up.

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What obvious reasons are those? Why can't you pump it back into the sea?

The fresh water you pump inland will end up back in the sea anyway, completing the cycle, it's not like you're going to make the sea saltier by desalination. The sea has lately gotten a tiny tiny fraction less salty anyway because of all the ice caps and glaciers melting, it's not an issue.

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Alright, so what happens when you keep pumping salt back into the ocean? Do you think that salinity wont rise?? Remember that youre stuffing around with the equilibrium. Most fish, coral etc. wouldn't be able adapt quickly enough to changes in the salinity of the water over such a small period of time. There is a reason that no fish can survive in the red(?) sea...too much salt (not that its a man-made result).
Its alright in small quantities, but as soon as you do something large scale that would be required in drought areas, you're stuffing the levels up. Its an option but wouldn't it be better to address the issues causing the drought rather than finding a temporary remedial measure that comprises the equilibrium of the ocean?
Also, remember that water doesn't end up back in the ocean as fast as you extract it.

point taken...but its not exactly providing for the entire state, including farmers. Its for 17% of the metropolitan area

Its all very simple.

There are too many of us.

Think of most of the worlds current issues and they can be simply solved by reducing the population - not by the self-seeking goal of growth at all costs.

The only agenda that endless growth satisfies is that of the capital elite or the wannabe nouveau-riche - neither of whom can see past their own ego's to give a toss about the environment.

And BTW - you dont have to be a "tree-hugger" or a "greenie" to give a ** about the planet on which you live.

RAL INN - maybe Saffer can get into the Aussie spirit and throw his St Kilda "snag" on your barbie?!

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Originally posted by kiterdan
Alright, so what happens when you keep pumping salt back into the ocean? Do you think that salinity wont rise??
...
Also, remember that water doesn't end up back in the ocean as fast as you extract it.

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It's a cycle. When sun hits the sea, fresh water evaporates and leaves saltier water. Lots and lots and LOTS of fresh water evaporates. Mind bogglingly massive amounts of fresh water evaporates. The thing is, that fresh water finds its way back into the sea after a year or two, so the balance is restored. Desalination plants don't make a measurable fraction of a gnats willy of difference. And the fresh water they produce finds its way back into the sea in a year or two, restoring the balance, just like evaporation does. It's a non-issue.

Just for grits and shiggles, check this out:
www.lockhaven.edu/redirect/JSRedirect.html
I don't think the scientist's answer addresses the different densities of salt and fresh water, I calculate that with a depth of 8km or more you would get fresh water flowing out of the top of the pipe, solving both our world energy crisis and fresh water problems in one fell swoop!

Yeah i lived in Peckham, SE london for a while in my teenage days, and water was fine. Recycled 7 times and was fine.

I was amazed when i came here that there was no recycling would have thought in a place as dry and new as Perth it would have been developed here..
Bizarre i thought.

Australia's native animals and plants have evolved to be extremely water efficient, and to survive droughts like we are experiencing. We have not. We're trashing the place with irrigation and salinity, bare earth cropping, hard hoofed animals etc. Maybe we're getting better, but I think there's a long way to go.
Ral Inn's right, debating the issue isn't going to help farmers with no harvest. Can only hope for rain.
The biggest issue with desalinty plants is the enormous amount of energy the process requires.
Where should we get the energy from? Whichever energy source has the least greenhouse impact. Like Tim Flannery, I think we should consider Nuclear, because our current coal dependancy is the worst option, however it's not going to happen soon and there are a lot of cleaner options. Australia has excellent potential for renewable energy, solar, wind, geothermal, tidal. Surely us kiters would like to see some wind turbines around the place.
Each household can contribute a lot. I built a state of the art "eco" house, grid feeding solar electricity, solar water, water tank, water recycling. Easy. Costs as much as a new car.
And stop using kn air conditioners! They're going to build new coal fired power plants just to keep us cool while the sun shines and the world gets hotter! And we're still building kn "brick venereal disease" mcmansions with black tiles, no insulation and windows facing south west! phew, got a bit carried away.....
dismounts soapbox.....

carbon tax. bring it on.

and eat skippy, not beef.