Windsurfers vs Kiters at Safety Bay

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WA66
WA66
WA
138 posts
WA, 138 posts
12 Dec 2006 11:21pm
Thanks to you all, we really seem to be getting some sensible discussion on a serious topic which has the potential to affect us all. The interesting point to note is that I posted this exact same post in the windsurf forum yet it has had minimal interest/replies?
I think that indicates it's something the kiters are more concerned about, or they are a more caring bunch (take the compliment from a windsurfer while you can)
I will do my bit to converse with the kiting fraternity and wave to you all as I whiz past...
If its something we all make a point to discuss with our peers then I think progress will be made. Admittedly there will always be the minority that will do what they want, when they want where they want - thats what peer group pressure is for !
Carlos
Carlos
WA
25 posts
WA, 25 posts
13 Dec 2006 1:28pm
Let's get this straight. The Pond area has the highest concentration of windsurfers in the greater Safety Bay area. Most of these people are learners, these folks generally can't get out of their own way let alone a kiter. More skilled sailors sail in the bay.

So why would kiters want to sail amongst the highest concentration of learner windsurfers in the whole area?

The incident last christmas was not an acident, The kiter jumped without looking into the path of the windsurfer. Only by pure chance this did not end in the death of the windsurfer.


What of the Japanese tourist windsufer tangled in kite lines on the weed bank last weekend?

The gentlemans agreement worked fine for a long time, so let's try that again.
FlyingWhiteBoy
FlyingWhiteBoy
WA
111 posts
WA, 111 posts
13 Dec 2006 9:49pm
Perhaps we can get chuck norris to wait in the dunes with a sniper rifle and shoot down any kites that break the rules and any windsurfers that... well any windsurfers.

Seriously though, any problems that are there can be sorted out if we all stay open to communicating in a friendly and productive way. If a rule is made it will have to be done at an offical meeting of some kind. SB regulars need to get to the next waksa meeting and raise it as an issue for discussion. Any volunteers??? It would also be good to get a few windsurfing regulars there to outline their perspective.
gruezi
gruezi
WA
3464 posts
WA, 3464 posts
13 Dec 2006 10:08pm
Yea, wave and smile at each other, high fives are cool too!

Recognise and salute each other for starters.......only 1 in 1000 will be offended.

Remember how lucky we are all to be out what we are doing

WA water community is what this is all about, it is up to us to show the way as we are so dam lucky.
FlyingWhiteBoy
FlyingWhiteBoy
WA
111 posts
WA, 111 posts
13 Dec 2006 10:20pm
HI FIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jagshemesh
NeilT
NeilT
WA
139 posts
WA, 139 posts
13 Dec 2006 11:52pm
<The incident last christmas was not an acident, The kiter jumped without looking into the path of the windsurfer. Only by pure chance this did not end in the death of the windsurfer.>

Are you saying then that this was deliberate???? Did this kiter deliberately target a windsurfer and hope that he would be less injured in the collision?? Gimme a break!!

There is no doubt that gross carelessness occurred. Show me a kiter who says he has NEVER forgotten to look behind him to check for others before jumping or turning and I will show you a liar. We ALL forget how to be perfect from time to time. There will be the odd mishap occasionally whether between kiters themselves or between kiters and polies. That's life. It's got nothing to do with segregating areas between one sport and another.

Has there NEVER been a collision between 2 windsurfers or between 2 kiters?? Of course there has. The ocean is for everyone to enjoy regardless of nationality or place of residence. This is Australia, there is s**tloads of room! Talk to an Italian or Frenchman about their local kite beach and you will be amazed.

Who says "they" are going to ban our sports?! On what basis?? Because one single windsurfer says that he was here first? Sounds like just more internet hype and gossip-mongering to me. Most of us are happy to share Safety Bay with any other kiters or polies who have a friendly attitude to other water users. Give others a bit of space and wave g'day. There is no problem unless you make it a problem.

If you go out with a bad attitude like the odd one or two old farts do and start yelling abuse at others then expect to get the proverbial finger in return.

Gruezi has the right angle..... enjoy it and try really hard to be safe.

To WA66, if it comes to a vote then I, along with most other kiters, will vote for kiters to the East and windsurfers to the West. If you have a problem with that .......... then you will understand how there really is no problem.....only sharing. Get used to it. I have only once heard a complaint from a SB kiter about a polie. There IS no problem here. I had a run-in with the same polie on another occasion but I am not going to judge YOU based on this single idiot.

To safetybayboy. We mostly want LESS regulations not more. Please feel free to vountarily segregate yourself from the polies but don't make assumptions for the rest of us.

Bertus' comment is very true. The west side is much choppier than 5 years ago which is why kiters want to use the east side too. The only reason that most polies are East of the spit is that it's the best place. It's got bugger-all to do with some so called "gentlemans agreement".

This is the first time I've been on this forum for months...... and I've still learnt nothing!!!

Happy kiting/windsurfing to all!!

AND

Happy Xmas!

Neil Taylor












DJH
DJH
WA
9 posts
DJH DJH
WA, 9 posts
14 Dec 2006 9:47am
Hi i am new to windsurfing, i go out in light winds 15 to 20 (just like a lot of kite's) most of these guys keep a great distance from me and obviously me from them. But i am not good a controlling where i go and have been yelled at by kite's for comingto near them whenm heading to the so called shallow area where windsurfers dont go to the left of the boat ramp. Thats if you are not a beginner. So when you kiters do your tricks down that end and put out your jump just remember that some of us are beinners and this pond area is a safe haven for us. Maybe some of the kiters could come down when there is a club day bring some meat for the bbq and a drink and get to know us. Maybe this is a way of talking about issues.
safetybayboy
safetybayboy
WA
15 posts
WA, 15 posts
14 Dec 2006 9:54am
Originally posted by NeilT

<
To safetybayboy. We mostly want LESS regulations not more. Please feel free to vountarily segregate yourself from the polies but don't make assumptions for the rest of us.


Neil Taylor



Thankyou for your comments Neil, I just don't happen to agree with them, just rank of selfish egotism to me. You'll be the type of guy that gets us all banned, and all thanks to your ego. I know it's been said before but true freedom only comes with responsibility, and if you think you are free to annoy and put others in danger, then you are simply wrong. Use some common sense man. But I'm sure this will read like chinese to you. You are obviously so rapt up in your own world, that you can't forsee or predict the potential harm we are creating by crowding populated areas? Maybe your one of these 16 yo internet nuts, listen to some of the wise heads on this forum. I want to kitesurf for another 20 years in as many areas as possible, and not be banned by the actions of selfish egoists like yourself. Don't say you weren't advised. This is depressing, there's too many neil's in our sport.









Spacemonkey!
Spacemonkey!
SA
2288 posts
SA, 2288 posts
14 Dec 2006 12:28pm
safety bay boy pull your head in, Neil is dead on the money. I've never kited at safety bay but I can tell from the description that the best area is currently occpied with polies. Theres no reason to seggregate theres just idiots on both sides who don't understand each others sport. From a kitesurfing perspective the only different thing about kiting with polies is that their mast is a fixed height so that if you go upwind of them you have to make sure you can clear that comfotably with your lines as opposed to having to clear anothers kiters lines who can raise or lower that height.

Also you need to be mindfull that after a gybe or tack that they are normally quite slow out of the blocks especailly when it's light. Windsurfers are easier to for kiters to negotiate past than other kiters by far IMO. The only thing that from a kiters perspective is annoying about pbers is that sometimes they walk back upwind right through the riding zone to save lifting the board. This pretty much rules out doing any tricks in the zone.

Windsurfers are a little too paranoid about our kites, sure they are very dangerous but if both the kiters and pbers got to know each other they would learn to trust the kiters riding upwind of them and not be in constant paranoia that the kite is going to crash into them. A competant kiter should have no problem riding upwind of pbers. Then there is tricks you treat pbers like anyone else, don't jump upwind of them unless you are very far upwind of them and check behind you before you jump because pbers are faster in some conditions.
brooksy
brooksy
WA
498 posts
WA, 498 posts
14 Dec 2006 11:03am
Don't get too fired up there safetybayboy - chill.

It's the theory of evolution. We're in the prime of kitesurfing, as time goes on and places get cramped people will disperse and the problems will go away. No one wants to kite/windsurf on top of each other.

For now just be courteous to your fellow water users and the problems will die a natural death.

Take Woodies, used to be packed everyday after work, yesterday, in perfect conditions, it was relatively quiet.
Juddy
Juddy
WA
1103 posts
WA, 1103 posts
14 Dec 2006 11:38am
Dear Safety Bay Boy...

You'll be the type of guy that gets us all banned, and all thanks to your ego. I know it's been said before but true freedom only comes with responsibility, and if you think you are free to annoy and put others in danger, then you are simply wrong. Use some common sense man. But I'm sure this will read like chinese to you. You are obviously so rapt up in your own world, that you can't forsee or predict the potential harm we are creating by crowding populated areas? Maybe your one of these 16 yo internet nuts, listen to some of the wise heads on this forum.

how's this for size - Neil Taylor is one of the most un-egotistical kiters in Perth. He does more for this sport during his lunch time than you could ever hope to do in a life time. Perhaps, 'safety bay BOY' you should show some respect to those who know a bit more than you...

Juddy
safetybayboy
safetybayboy
WA
15 posts
WA, 15 posts
14 Dec 2006 12:30pm
quote:
Originally posted by Juddy

Dear Safety Bay Boy...

You'll be the type of guy that gets us all banned, and all thanks to your ego. I know it's been said before but true freedom only comes with responsibility, and if you think you are free to annoy and put others in danger, then you are simply wrong. Use some common sense man. But I'm sure this will read like chinese to you. You are obviously so rapt up in your own world, that you can't forsee or predict the potential harm we are creating by crowding populated areas? Maybe your one of these 16 yo internet nuts, listen to some of the wise heads on this forum.

how's this for size - Neil Taylor is one of the most un-egotistical kiters in Perth. He does more for this sport during his lunch time than you could ever hope to do in a life time. Perhaps, 'safety bay BOY' you should show some respect to those who know a bit more than you...

Juddy



OK apologies to Neil, sorry I don't know you and probably judged you too harshly, I just get really worried thet we are going to get banned. I see poliedome as being practiced differently to kiting, and that we are unpredicatable to each other, and better off voluntarily segregating.

This internet forum stuff, it's so easy to mis-interpret what gets said, I usually stay off this site, but saw a safetybay topic and couldn't resist.
Carlos
Carlos
WA
25 posts
WA, 25 posts
14 Dec 2006 12:34pm
Yes there is plenty of room,(This is Australia, there is s**tloads of room!)but there is very little space in the pond area. So why not come kiting out in Warnbro Sound with the big boys, there has to be more to kiting than hanging around in the kiddies pool. The pond is a protected area for windsurfers that are learning.

No comments with regard to the Japanese windsurfer tangled in kite lines on the safety bay weed bank last weekend?
Andrew
Andrew
WA
148 posts
WA, 148 posts
14 Dec 2006 1:10pm
safety bay boy.... as a freind of Neils, your comments are just completely full of ****!

back to the topic:
The Safety Bay to Shoalwater area just isnt crowded, it is as simple as that! Friday week ago I was out for a couple of hours in the Pengoes area and I was the only person out... I recon those euro's would have wet dreams about such a session. And I cruised around to the pond area and there was 1 kite up. Obviously the pond gets the learners as does the Pengoes area... but there is still plenty of room for the experienced amoungst us as we jsut stay upwind and out as far as we need. And for someone who has been kiting in this area for over 4 years I have always been able to find plenty of space.... even on busy public holidays. Kite surfer Vs pole surfer, what the f is this... can't all be treated the same? cant all display common courtesy? Yer sure the will aways be the occasional dick head... it like that with everything... the world is full of dickheads and yes some of them kite surf and yes some pole and drive cars etc etc. SO WHAT! chill and enjoy your time on the water!

thats my 5cents


safetybayboy
safetybayboy
WA
15 posts
WA, 15 posts
14 Dec 2006 1:24pm
quote:
Originally posted by Andrew

safety bay boy.... as a freind of Neils, your comments are just completely full of ****!






Maybe my comments are what you say, and apologies for offending you about your friend, too easy to be uncensored on these internet forums. Though I don't necessarily have to agree with your comments or Neil's, I have a different point of view. I was attacked, and retaliated, like a juvenile, and I have been appropriately admonished. I still believe I have some valid points, and time will tell, I hope I'm wrong, and just being a whining pessimist, coz if I'm right, there's goiung to be a lot of pessimistic kiters around, and if I lose my kiting priveleges in safety bay coz of the selfish actions of some, I will not be very happy, and I'm entitled to fight for what I believe is in the long term interest of the sport we love (at least we shared a similar passion). Other's have other views, and express them, and are quick to let me know they don't agree with me, well I don't agree with some of your views. But overall lets just love our sport and not ruin it for others or ourselves.
WA66
WA66
WA
138 posts
WA, 138 posts
14 Dec 2006 2:24pm
Check out the photos page, i have uploaded some satellite images of the area in question.
NeilT
NeilT
WA
139 posts
WA, 139 posts
14 Dec 2006 10:05pm
Hey safetybayboy,

No offence taken and I can only dream of being one of those 16 year olds!!! :)

The internet is a great venue for some things but a lousy one for others. You never really know if the poster is legit or has ulterior motives (especially in the case of kite reviews etc) whereas face to face you may have a better idea. On the web we also have a tendency towards aggression which we probably wouldn't have with personal contact. I reckon this is why many big companies send their managers interstate for regular meetings instead of always saving time and money by using video-conferencing. We are humans first and complex intelligence machines second.

Sadly, many forums (forii???)become inundated with multiple posters (like 1,000+) who seem to get off on seeing their own words in print. I often wonder what a pschycologist would make of them!! They'd probably call it penis-envy or something like that! That may be a bit unfair as I'm sure many are just offering genuine assistance.

The Net is a great place to learn and a great place to disseminate information but it is arguable as to its value as a discussion forum.

I'll catch you down at SB very soon I'm sure. I'll be the one flying the mattress!!

all the best

Neil Taylor

PS I hope you drink! The last time but one when I was there I pulled out a couple of beers at 5pm and got two non-drinkers!! Embarrassment!!!!! :)













WA66
WA66
WA
138 posts
WA, 138 posts
15 Dec 2006 10:33am
NeilT, won't have that problem with me !
Just leave em in an esky on the edge of the sand bar
Ooo-eerr hang on drinking n sailing/kiting maybe not.
511kev
511kev
NSW
55 posts
NSW, 55 posts
15 Dec 2006 12:51pm
Wow, I'm visiting WA in january with my 2 sons, we all kite. Don't think we'll go to Safety Bay. Doesn't sound too Safe. I think we'll try the other 2000 klms of coastline.
MORT
MORT
WA
33 posts
WA, 33 posts
17 Dec 2006 10:20am
quote:
Originally posted by 511kev

Wow, I'm visiting WA in january with my 2 sons, we all kite. Don't think we'll go to Safety Bay. Doesn't sound too Safe. I think we'll try the other 2000 klms of coastline.



Yeah I would'nt bother coming down to SB either mate, NOT it's only one of the best if not the best flat and most beatiful area's in Perth. Listen to everyone else like a good little sheep.
waveslave
waveslave
WA
4263 posts
WA, 4263 posts
18 Dec 2006 12:47am
quote:
[i]Originally posted by Spacemonkey!

Windsurfers are a little too paranoid about our kites, sure they are very dangerous but if both the kiters and pbers got to know each other they would learn to trust the kiters riding upwind of them and not be in constant paranoia that the kite is going to crash into them.



Some poleys dread kiters.
Or should I say;
Poleys can sometimes be over-apprehensive about kitelines.

You can smell the fear.
You can see the horror in their eyes.
You can observe the panic in their sailing when compromised by strings.

Now,
You can't always blame them for being jumpy.
A 30m bandsaw in the shakey hands of a kook can be a nasty piece-of-work.
Messy.

Because of this stringphobia,
some poleys will always try to claim the upwind position regardless of a negative outcome.
(I'm talking about opposing tacks).
It's crazy,
Even when their claim is over-ambitious,,,
Even when you assess the poleys speed and position,,,
and then estimate your own movement....
Hell, you can be the upwind guy and the poley is still impotently forcing a bluff.
Poor bastards.

I personally battle for the upwind position everytime.
It's safer to be upwind.
A panicky poley on a screamer downwind blitz could split a kiter in two.
So I point like a beagle and cut hard upwind.
Out of harms way.

Stupid rules about starboard and port tacks are alien concepts in my wave world.
Guidelines from the boating fraternity have no place in the surf.

My advise to poleys is this;
Don't fear the string so much,
Worry more about the sharp rail of the twin-tip board.
Meat cleavers with footstraps.

But kitelines are kool,
just jump off your poleboard if challenged and dive deep.
You might catch a lobster for dinner.
hahahahahah
shooterMcgavin
shooterMcgavin
WA
90 posts
WA, 90 posts
18 Dec 2006 8:00am
As if a ban is going to stop me [}:)]
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