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NSW, 4382 posts
21 Nov 2005 9:14am
Originally posted by ottisgrey

Let's keep it real.

Rip-off is an objective term ( it exsists in reality) it means, an act of explotaion.

If one buys a tee for 7 dollars, paints it, and then resells it for eighty dollars to a "groupy" this clearly "exploits" the groupy mentality.

And so we have the quite "real" objective, the exploitation of the groupy populace tru rip-off.

Purely personal attacks; those unsupported by actual fact drag down our sport.

Let's keep it real please.

Thanks
ottis


G'day Ottis

Have you ever noticed that whenever YOU CHOOSE to use a term like rip-off, then you have taken a posiitionality in reference to your perception of the alleged rip-off, so therefore logic 101 states that YOUR positionality is purely subjective.

Pure objectivity is not possible!

Think about it.

Keep it really real.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCormack

PS - No one holds a gun to your groupies head to buy the heavily marked up T, they CHOSE to do that, they CHOSE to beleive the hype that that T will make them look cool, its a TV consumer world.
tWp
tWp
VIC
53 posts
tWp tWp
VIC, 53 posts
21 Nov 2005 12:55pm
Originally posted by GalahOnTheBay


I can make 7 cents in the dollar with my money in the bank


Really?
Which Bank?
I know mine doesn't offer rates quite that good...
carbine
carbine
WA
1450 posts
WA, 1450 posts
21 Nov 2005 10:30am
Originally posted by tWp

<blockquote><span>Originally posted by GalahOnTheBay


I can make 7 cents in the dollar with my money in the bank</span></blockquote>

Really?
Which Bank?
I know mine doesn't offer rates quite that good...


Im sure they would if u asked them to plonk it in the riskiest investment they could find, eg a kiteshop.
eightfootplus
eightfootplus
NSW
298 posts
NSW, 298 posts
21 Nov 2005 1:47pm
I cant believe you retailers are biting so hard, this is a no win discussion, which is only continuing because you are biting.

Guys if you feel that they are ripping us off blind then do the sums and set up a new shop and compete. But before you do, what do you reckon the size of the market is for new kites in sydney? 50 a year max? thats not a real big market boys? how many shops are there, you can soon work out the revenues, then have a look at the cost side.

But you have a choice, you can make your own kites!, or fly over seas and buy one direct or import your own and wear the warrentee delivery risks issues. I recommend you just buy more from the reatailers so they can give you bigger discounts.

and that way I get to buy good second hand gear, everyone wins!!
BOOMAN
BOOMAN
VIC
333 posts
VIC, 333 posts
21 Nov 2005 7:45pm
"its the retailers choice to open a shop"

where else would we get kites...unless we made them ourselves


i worked on developing a few products and the cost is huge u gotta try a bunch of designs then materials hours its insane it takes ages even creating harness' look at the time and effort(trial and error) now u sell them to a shop they have to chuck there bit on for all those costs above ....
moral
anything good is pricey fast cars,hot girlfriends, decent beer just be happy its a kite and not a speed boat if there was no kites ... well i couldnt afford to wakeboard


laurie
laurie
NSW
3904 posts
NSW, 3904 posts
21 Nov 2005 8:04pm
Originally posted by gruezi
Hey Laurie, what you going to do with all this inellllllllllligance...?


It's all over my head .. I still focusing on getting my board skills down pat ..
ottisgrey
ottisgrey
WA
38 posts
WA, 38 posts
22 Nov 2005 2:07am
G'day Kitepower,

This is just gibberish.

don't bother with a reply.
thanks anyway?
ottis





G'day Ottis

Have you ever noticed that whenever YOU CHOOSE to use a term like rip-off, then you have taken a posiitionality in reference to your perception of the alleged rip-off, so therefore logic 101 states that YOUR positionality is purely subjective.

Pure objectivity is not possible!

Think about it.

Keep it really real.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCormack




RAL INN
RAL INN
SA
2898 posts
SA, 2898 posts
22 Nov 2005 8:29am
Why put your money in the bank, which bank, any bank.

They treat you like a nobody, agree meakly with you when you complain to their face, and then call you a scammer behind your back.

Banks! who would trust them.

Best winds
Tony L

Disclaimer: this is not an attack on Cabrinha.
NSW, 4382 posts
22 Nov 2005 9:06am
Originally posted by RAL INN

Why put your money in the bank, which bank, any bank.

They treat you like a nobody, agree meakly with you when you complain to their face, and then call you a scammer behind your back.

Banks! who would trust them.

Best winds
Tony L

Disclaimer: this is not an attack on Cabrinha.


But if Cabrinha had a bank, then it would be?
CBA, could actually stand for Cabrinha Bank Australia, who are we to know?

If you would like to invest in CBA, let me know I can show you how to make a deposit and get a free kite.


Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCormack
RAL INN
RAL INN
SA
2898 posts
SA, 2898 posts
22 Nov 2005 8:41am
Now that's a wierd vibe.

Cabrinha bank Australia soliciting funds via their newest teller steve.

Just when you thought it was safe to fill out a deposit slip.
GalahOnTheBay
GalahOnTheBay
NSW
4188 posts
NSW, 4188 posts
22 Nov 2005 5:28pm
hey Steve @ Kitepower, I thought there was not supposed to be any advertising on these forums!?!?!?
ottisgrey
ottisgrey
WA
38 posts
WA, 38 posts
22 Nov 2005 3:12pm
G'day,

You'll of course be kind enough to notice, that whenever YOU CHOOSE to use a term like "advertising", then you have taken a posiitionality in reference to your perception of the alleged "advertising", so therefore logic 101 states that YOUR positionality is purely subjective, thenceforth and thereafter an advertisement is just not possible!

G'day to you Sir

LOL
You just have to wonder?
ottis





quote:
Originally posted by GalahOnTheBay

hey Steve @ Kitepower, I thought there was not supposed to be any advertising on these forums!?!?!?

bassetkite
bassetkite
WA
29 posts
WA, 29 posts
22 Nov 2005 3:34pm
it seems pretty easy to go at the retailer and their profit margins, that is fair enough, just remember when the boot is on the other foot and people question the value you provide doing your job - guaranteed that someone else can do it cheaper and better.

The real point to all this is to create a win win scenario. Retailers that provide value in advice, consitent service, quality product etc to customers who are looking for assistance and help about something they are passionate about are providing a much needed service, otherwise they would be out of business. I got great service and help from a shop on the weekend that saved me hours of internet gazing.

If you dont beleive in this model then focus on looking after number one and stop whinging! No one is holding a gun to your head go shop on e-bay and knock yourself out with your savings.
GalahOnTheBay
GalahOnTheBay
NSW
4188 posts
NSW, 4188 posts
22 Nov 2005 9:07pm
quote:
Originally posted by ottisgrey

G'day,
You'll of course be kind enough to notice, that whenever YOU CHOOSE to use a term like "advertising", then you have taken a posiitionality in reference to your perception of the alleged "advertising", so therefore logic 101 states that YOUR positionality is purely subjective, thenceforth and thereafter an advertisement is just not possible!
G'day to you Sir
LOL
You just have to wonder?
ottis



umm - you do realise I was joking don't you?

www.google.com.au/search?hl=en&q=define%3Asarcasm&btnG=Google+Search&meta=&gws_rd=ssl
ottisgrey
ottisgrey
WA
38 posts
WA, 38 posts
24 Nov 2005 5:11am
So, that's a relief.

You are saying GalahOnTheBay is really just another nickname for Kitepower Australia then?

Like I say that's a relief I thought that bloke Kitepower was a fraking lunatic.

That's why I paraphrased him/her/it/you?

Guess you need a program to post here.

No worries
ottis
gruezi
gruezi
WA
3464 posts
WA, 3464 posts
24 Nov 2005 9:12pm
All new "top brand" kites are at about the same price.

Become friendly with your local kite dealer...they actually are there to help.

Steve from Kitepower knows kites.....I'de say he is obsessed with kites, among other things I'm sure. I would not like to be in his business, but then I'm not a kite junky.......yet.

Steve is a kite-pusher, but he will sell you any kite your heart desires and always gives good and postive info. anywhere on the forum. Kitepower is also very generous to this forum (it buys banners), so should be able to talk kite tech. anywhere IMO.

Despite what y'all may think, sites do cost dollars.........and so do kites for that matter.

Sometimes Steve is full of sh.......it but aren't we all........

Did y'all know that Peter Costello is an addicted kiter? Well he is and is planning to spend 14 billion AUD on kites.......going to give them out to all the people on Seabreeze who can't afford new gear.

ottisgrey
ottisgrey
WA
38 posts
WA, 38 posts
25 Nov 2005 3:40am
G'day,
You'll of course be kind enough to notice, that whenever YOU CHOOSE to use a term like "top brand", then you have taken a posiitionality in reference to your perception of these alleged "top brands", so therefore logic 101 states that YOUR positionality is purely subjective,therefor it is just so much subjective babble.
G'day to you Sir
LOL
ottis
PS. How many names do you post under?
NSW, 4382 posts
25 Nov 2005 9:14am
quote:
Originally posted by ottisgrey

G'day,
You'll of course be kind enough to notice, that whenever YOU CHOOSE to use a term like "top brand", then you have taken a posiitionality in reference to your perception of these alleged "top brands", so therefore logic 101 states that YOUR positionality is purely subjective,therefor it is just so much subjective babble.
G'day to you Sir
LOL
ottis
PS. How many names do you post under?



Hey Ottis
You have to admit you are totally on the hook eh?

Please do continue to ponder the possibility of true or pure objectivity.
However, you will find that you are always in fact being subjective.
Objectivity, is a concept. A concept of the mind of the person that has concieved the idea, and therefore it is subjective to that persons mind. In other words, objectivity is a mind game!
It is not possible for you to look at or examine anything without you taking a position from which to subjectively view or examine it.

There is perhaps a moment of pure objectivity, if it could be called that, it is when one has realised pure subjectivity as the nature of existence itself, but then there is no-one left to care.

I post under my own name and no others on here or any forum.
Gruezi is not me, nor am I Galah, but they can tell you that.

Tried using another name once, it backfired and comments I made hurt the relationship I have with a family I highly respect in the kite industry, so I don't do that anymore.
I respect the right of others to post under anonymous names, but it sucks when they use that anonymity to launch cowardly attacks on others.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCormack

GalahOnTheBay
GalahOnTheBay
NSW
4188 posts
NSW, 4188 posts
25 Nov 2005 11:47am
quote:
Originally posted by ottisgrey

So, that's a relief.
You are saying GalahOnTheBay is really just another nickname for Kitepower Australia then?



oh my, no offense to the guys at kitepower but HELL NO, I am not a current or past employee of kitepower, have no plans to become one, nor live in the shop next door. This is the only nick I use to post to these forums, I'm to lazy to remember more than one. Even though my profile name is "similar" to a certain shop owners, I think I'll change it to avoid confusion of the masses - in the meanwhile think of me as the allspice of the kiting fraternity.

Check some of my past posts if you are in any doubt. Shame you cant see some of the deleted ones too...

oh yeah - nice double post ottisgrey - NOOB!
GalahOnTheBay
GalahOnTheBay
NSW
4188 posts
NSW, 4188 posts
25 Nov 2005 11:53am
quote:
Originally posted by Kitepower AustraliaI post under my own name and no others on here or any forum.
Gruezi is not me, nor am I Galah, but they can tell you that.


So Steve by your logic you are not discounting the possibility that Gruezi may indeed be a Galah...

Gruezi please confirm or deny this vicious allegation!
RAL INN
RAL INN
SA
2898 posts
SA, 2898 posts
25 Nov 2005 11:24am
quote:
Many philosophers would use the term “objective reality” to refer to anything that exists as it is independent of any conscious awareness of it (via perception, thought, etc.). Common mid-sized physical objects presumably apply, as do persons having subjective states. Subjective reality would then include anything depending upon some (broadly construed) conscious awareness of it to exist. Particular instances of colors and sounds (as they are perceived) are prime examples of things that exist only when there are appropriate conscious states. Particular instances of emotions (e.g., my present happiness) also seem to be a subjective reality, existing when one feels them, and ceasing to exist when one’s mood changes.

“Objective knowledge” can simply refer to knowledge of an objective reality. Subjective knowledge would then be knowledge of any subjective reality.

There are, however, other uses of the terminology related to objectivity. Many philosophers use the term “subjective knowledge” to refer only to knowledge of one’s own subjective states. Such knowledge is distinguished from one’s knowledge of another individual’s subjective states and from knowledge of objective reality, which would both be objective knowledge under the present definitions. Your knowledge of another person’s subjective states can be called objective knowledge since it is presumably part of the world that is “object” for you, just as you and your subjective states are part of the world that is “object” for the other person.

This is a prominent distinction in epistemology (the philosophical study of knowledge) because many philosophers have maintained that subjective knowledge in this sense has a special status. They assert, roughly, that knowledge of one’s own subjective states is direct, or immediate, in a way that knowledge of anything else is not. It is convenient to refer to knowledge of one’s own subjective states simply as subjective knowledge. Following this definition, objective knowledge would be knowledge of anything other than one’s own subjective states.

One last prominent style of usage for terms related to objectivity deals with the nature of support a particular knowledge-claim has. “Objective knowledge” can designate a knowledge-claim having, roughly, the status of being fully supported or proven. Correspondingly, “subjective knowledge” might designate some unsupported or weakly supported knowledge-claim. It is more accurate to refer to these as objective and subjective judgments, rather than knowledge, but one should be on guard for the use of the term “knowledge” in this context. This usage fits with the general connotation for the term “objectivity” of solidity, trustworthiness, accuracy, impartiality, etc. The general connotation for many uses of “subjectivity” includes unreliability, bias, an incomplete (personal) perspective, etc.

“Objective judgment or belief” refers to a judgment or belief based on objectively strong supporting evidence, the sort of evidence that would be compelling for any rational being. A subjective judgment would then seem to be a judgment or belief supported by evidence that is compelling for some rational beings (subjects) but not compelling for others. It could also refer to a judgment based on evidence that is of necessity available only to some subjects



A quote from a reliable source that i will supply to those who really need it.

But who really needs psuedointellectialism on this forum anyway?

best winds
Tony L
GalahOnTheBay
GalahOnTheBay
NSW
4188 posts
NSW, 4188 posts
25 Nov 2005 12:11pm
hmm, I have been reliably informed (google rocks!) that this text apears verbatim from www.iep.utm.edu/objectiv/ not sure if that's the original source but my guess is that's where it was copy and pasted from.

Steve you could have at least creditied your source, otherwise isn't that called plague-arism?

I agree with RAL INN - the forums are not for neither psuedointellectialism nor people trying to act smart when they are not. Please limit posts to trash talking and mindless dribble from now on!

We now return you to our regular programming...
RAL INN
RAL INN
SA
2898 posts
SA, 2898 posts
25 Nov 2005 12:28pm
Galah I believe you were correct.

my computer skills are very Psuedo and getting back to the original without loosing the reply was beyond me.

At any rate it should be printed off onto suitably water soluble and soft paper for appropriate disposal along with the other dribble.

Disclaimer: this is not an attack on Cabrinha.

Another quote: from an old school buddy. "true philosophers don't learn to be philosophers they just declare themsleves to be philosophers".

No wonder this world is as good as it gets.
said the pessimist agreeing with the optimist.

Best winds
Tony L
gruezi
gruezi
WA
3464 posts
WA, 3464 posts
25 Nov 2005 1:01pm
I'm pink and grey, have feathers and don't plagiarise.

Now I'm going flying.
GalahOnTheBay
GalahOnTheBay
NSW
4188 posts
NSW, 4188 posts
25 Nov 2005 4:46pm
quote:
Originally posted by gruezi

I'm pink and grey, have feathers and don't plagiarise.
Now I'm going flying.



IMPOSTER! that's me! lol

except there is no wind here so I can't go flying today
NSW, 4382 posts
26 Nov 2005 9:34am
Hey Guys
If you were not so obsessed with beating me up then you would just not respond, so it is in fact you guys who are filling the forum with dribble, and gibberish.

Taken from the same article posted by Ral In to try to discredit what I wrote.

f. Is There No Escape From the Subjective?
Despite plausible ways of arguing that intersubjective disagreement indicates error and agreement indicates some probability of truth, defenses of objective knowledge all face the philosophically daunting challenge of providing a cogent argument showing that any purported “mark” of reliability (including apparent intersubjective agreement) actually does confer a high likelihood of truth. The task seems to presuppose some method of determining objective truth in the very process of establishing certain sorts of subjective impressions as reliable indicators of truth. That is, we require some independent (non-subjective) way of determining which subjective impressions support knowledge of objective reality before we can find subjectively accessible “markers” of the reliable subjective impressions. What could such a method be, since every method of knowledge, judgment, or even thought seems quite clearly to go on within the realm of subjective impressions? One cannot get out of one’s subjective impressions, it seems, to test them for reliability. The prospects for knowledge of the objective world are hampered by our essential confinement within subjective impressions


Seems like this guy has a problem with true objectivity too...

Lets move on eh?

This was all brought on by Ottis who is becoming obsessed with objectivity and my response to carbine about the use of the term rip off.



Cya and
Goodwinds

Steve McCormack

PS "I read it on the internet so it must be true"
poor relative
poor relative
WA
9106 posts
WA, 9106 posts
26 Nov 2005 7:53am
I sell clothes pegs you make lots selling clothes pegs.
I also have a dirt surfer......
poor relative
poor relative
WA
9106 posts
WA, 9106 posts
26 Nov 2005 7:54am
nice clothes pegs some wood some plastic all good quality, good price for you good price for me, you buy yes..
poor relative
poor relative
WA
9106 posts
WA, 9106 posts
26 Nov 2005 7:55am
plait your hair..??
ottisgrey
ottisgrey
WA
38 posts
WA, 38 posts
26 Nov 2005 11:52am
Well Da?

How about that?

I happen to share carbine’s opinions and don’t fancy by association being called dumb, negative, stupid, anti commerce, anti profit for sharing them.

It is by way of your drivel with gibberish, your penchant for backing outright slanders with oddball philosophy that we find ourselves here.

I think that there are rip-off deals that exploit a kite freak’s freakiness,that this freakiness is the object of many affections, the wool on our sheepish backsides, if you don't mind.


I suppose I have the right to my own considered opinion without getting tarred by your b/s plus philosophy.

If this is an attack on Cabrinna, well, nobody held a gun to their heads and told them to jack up the locals.
ottis






quote:
Originally posted by Kitepower Australia

Hey Guys
If you were not so obsessed with beating me up then you would just not respond, so it is in fact you guys who are filling the forum with dribble, and gibberish.

Taken from the same article posted by Ral In to try to discredit what I wrote.

f. Is There No Escape From the Subjective?
Despite plausible ways of arguing that intersubjective disagreement indicates error and agreement indicates some probability of truth, defenses of objective knowledge all face the philosophically daunting challenge of providing a cogent argument showing that any purported “mark” of reliability (including apparent intersubjective agreement) actually does confer a high likelihood of truth. The task seems to presuppose some method of determining objective truth in the very process of establishing certain sorts of subjective impressions as reliable indicators of truth. That is, we require some independent (non-subjective) way of determining which subjective impressions support knowledge of objective reality before we can find subjectively accessible “markers” of the reliable subjective impressions. What could such a method be, since every method of knowledge, judgment, or even thought seems quite clearly to go on within the realm of subjective impressions? One cannot get out of one’s subjective impressions, it seems, to test them for reliability. The prospects for knowledge of the objective world are hampered by our essential confinement within subjective impressions


Seems like this guy has a problem with true objectivity too...

Lets move on eh?

This was all brought on by Ottis who is becoming obsessed with objectivity and my response to carbine about the use of the term rip off.



Cya and
Goodwinds

Steve McCormack

PS "I read it on the internet so it must be true"



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