ridable wind gusts(what is considered reasonable?)

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dafish
dafish
NSW
1654 posts
NSW, 1654 posts
22 Jul 2011 2:52pm
Hey people,
been getting my ass whupped the last couple of days of this storm, been pretty gusty. What would be considered reasonable level of gusts (like 15 to 25 with 9 meter kite riding tt) to go out in, skill level competent, etc. I know winter winds are like that, but I can't keep out of the water. Today was 19 to 31 knots with loads of swell. I kept getting spanked. Don't have a smaller kite, but if I did don't think I could keep a smaller kite up when the wind backs off. Are these conditions that we have had on the south coast just not reasonable to kite in? Don't want to wuss out, but I don't want to be foolish either. Plus I am alone most of the time.
thanks for your input
df
ok
ok
NSW
1089 posts
ok ok
NSW, 1089 posts
22 Jul 2011 3:13pm
if in doubt dont go out?

With kitesurfing its very hard to get perfect conditions especially with winter winds as they arent like a summer seabreeze.
COL
COL
NSW
554 posts
COL COL
NSW, 554 posts
22 Jul 2011 5:18pm
Have to agree with OK. I hung around most of Friday in extremely gusty 30 to 45 knot winds. Finally had 1/2 hr when wind had settled to very gusty 18-30+ on a 7m & TT. Felt good to have tested the extremes but it's just survival tactics. You definately can't afford to be getting spanked in the extremes of wind & swell. You shouldn't have been out.
Col
dafish
dafish
NSW
1654 posts
NSW, 1654 posts
22 Jul 2011 5:47pm
thanks guys, but I guess if I always doubted myself and didn't test my ability I wouldn't ever progress. Maybe I shouldn't have gone out, I was calm and double checked everything, self launched and self landed with no problems. My mind was thinking survival tactics the whole time and what to do in case something went pear shaped.
I do understand your point though.

So Col, if the wind drops on your 7 and you have it trimmed to about half the gust variation, say 28 or so knots, are you able to keep moving when the wind swings back on the lowest range of the day without sinking? Or are you signing the kite and headed downwind and back to land?

Been a hell of an experience the last few days of this storm. Best bay swell we have had in ages....
df
radman4
radman4
678 posts
678 posts
22 Jul 2011 4:48pm
Welly seems to be the gust capital of the world,10 knot variance here is just a normal day,for a 9m kite i would reccomend 16-30 as a gusty day guideline depending on your weight and experience you could push the envelope to 35 as long as the gusts arn't too explosive ,a 7m kite with a bigger board is a better combo if your planning to ride gusty days on a regular basis,personally i think riding on gusty days make you a better rider and hones your skills,just take care and know your safty systems.
COL
COL
NSW
554 posts
COL COL
NSW, 554 posts
23 Jul 2011 9:57am
You can do a lot with a 7m in light wind when you have to to stay out of trouble, working the kite & heading down wind.
Just looked at your profile- Jervis Bay, that's a bit different, the wind swell is not going to kill you. In the end you were the one there, you assessed the dangers down wind. Without dangerous waves the water is safe, the danger is on land. The fact that you self launched/landed OK is a good sign.
When you can see it's OTT you have to be prepared before hand to just release your kite if you need to, it's just an object.
cheers
Col
BTW it was Wed I was out not Fri.
dafish
dafish
NSW
1654 posts
NSW, 1654 posts
23 Jul 2011 11:07am
Thanks for the reply's guys.
I think that radman is right about less than ideal conditions make you a better kiter. I am a reasonably fit dude, just turned 50. I have surfed for 40 of those years and lost the passion that I had in my mid forties. Taking up kiting has my juices flowing and I have that sensation of joy and exhilaration that has been missing for some time.
Back in my late teens I moved to a ski resort (was living in the usa at the time) because the stoke hit me hard. I found a great mentor who is still the coach if the usa downhill team. I asked him for help and he accepted. He showed me how to ski the worst conditions so that when I mastered those everything else would be a breeze. So, when conditions were ideal and we had ego snow all over, I would go and ski the crud to master it. Was the best training I ever had. Two years later I was skiing professionally and sponsered. I take that same analogy with me where ever I go. Go pay my dues, learn from anyone willing to teach me and answer even the dumbest questions, while still keeping safety in mind. (I have two teenage daughters who would like to see me around for the long haul! Oh, my wife would prefer if I stayed healthy too)
Knowing that a 10 knot gust variance is okay to kite in is good info, and I appreciate all the advice.
As far as the swell goes, it was breaking pretty much everywhere in the bay I normally kite. Out in the open ocean where I ride during a southerly was a no go zone, way to oc for me. The chance to ride a few big lumps in the bay that came through was too appealing to pass up.
cheer for the tips
df
SaveTheWhales
SaveTheWhales
WA
1913 posts
WA, 1913 posts
23 Jul 2011 9:15am
Just to add to the above....

In my opinion, if your out in crazy gusty Nukeing crap - then a "Below the bar depower is better so you have a huge amount to play with.

Normally when the above bar depower is no longer effective, you can get more range from the other....

It may not be in the perfect flying position but still gives you a reasonable amount of control to keep having fun

Having said that, I would not bother going out if my bar at full depower, was full powered on the front lines, common sense should kick in before that point ....Hopefully
Jedibrad
Jedibrad
NSW
527 posts
NSW, 527 posts
23 Jul 2011 7:08pm
If there is waves to ride use a fish surfboard

They increase the fun/gustyness ratio
COL
COL
NSW
554 posts
COL COL
NSW, 554 posts
23 Jul 2011 7:28pm
Jedibrad said...

If there is waves to ride use a fish surfboard

They increase the fun/gustyness ratio


Not sure why you say that, in extreme conditions control is everything, I'd say the opposite, a pin tail is preferrable. But conditions have been beyond that anyway, when you're just trying to stay in 1 piece TT's the go.
Col
Plummet
Plummet
4862 posts
4862 posts
23 Jul 2011 7:42pm
10 knot gust variance is easy peasy. in 19-30knots i'd be riding the 10m c4 and loving it. Staying upwind in 19 and boosting big when the 30 knot gust hit.

hell i've done 20-44 on my 8m light and loved every minute of it.

The key is using a kite that can handle the max gust but also stay upwind on the biggest lull.

The winder it is the lower aspect and more stable kite the better. Huge depower 3 strut short fat sle is the key to storm sessions.

What is a killer is when the lulls a down to 10 knots or less. particularily in big swell. Loose all power and your screwed. I'd much prefer 20-40 knots that 10-30.
Plummet
Plummet
4862 posts
4862 posts
23 Jul 2011 7:49pm
ps relax into it and ride what makes you feel energised. if you are ****ting yourself outback with monster waves ride inside the white wash if that makes you feel better. slowly push the barrier.

last year those insane sessions terrified me! this year they energise me.
dafish
dafish
NSW
1654 posts
NSW, 1654 posts
23 Jul 2011 11:36pm
and that my friend is progress. That is what I was referring too, but trying to determine what a kite and competent rider can handle so I can find where I am at and what to push or where to wait for another day.
Truth is most of you riders amaze me. Seeing the clips and possibilities is intriguing, and knowing what is possible to even average riders is a real buzz.
As I said before, its winter and I know its not summer, but that ain't a bad thing either.
Anyone who kites in Wellington is made of very hearty stuff indeed. Hats off to you as my two visits there in the past was embedded with utter respect for a very fierce Pac Ocean, especially between islands on that ferry crossing....dark seas that were very very large!
Plummet
Plummet
4862 posts
4862 posts
24 Jul 2011 10:09am
Yeah Wellingtron is a hard core spot for sure.

Here's a couple of things to work on for the storm sessions.

Learn to edge hard to control and overpowered kite. Good hard edging will keep you and your speed under control.

You need fast transitions to escape monster white wash. Practice changing directions as fast as you can.

Jumping. You need a good confident jump. Then you can simply jump over any white wash thats going to eat you up!!! but you need to be able to land it and time it well! Miss timing a jump and smashing into a peaking face is not an option!! Its good if you can build jumping skill to change your flight path mid jump. IE come in hot and fast or float down and at a stand still or transition back the other way.

Infact now i think about it controlled jumping is probably the key.

Here's a couple of examples from my 20-35 knot cross on with 5m swell and well over head height waves session a couple of weeks back.

I'm hooning into shore a massive gust hits and its like turbo boost kicking in. i'm doing about 50kph and starting to loose my edge and will hit rocks in about 100m if i don't slow down. I send it for a jump! rocket into the sky but i'm too close to the beach. maybe 40meters down wind. As i'm floating through the sky i realise i might land on the beach so i let the bar out to come down sooner, leave the redirect later than usual and time it to have the kite at the zenith when i'm about to land. I land softly in the shore dump at a stand still. Crissis averted!.

On the way out i'm doubling up the waves. Taking off one face and landing behind the next. Timed ride its like doing a massive motorcross jump. landing on the downface on the back of the wave is super smooth!! Awesome feeling. But one jump i time it wrong and a head height wave is peaking and i'm going to hit the face hard if i don't slowdown. So i re-send the kite for a transition downloop and land on the wave face and ride it out back to the beach like some highly skilled pro!!! SWeeeeeeeeeet!... not sure i can pull that one off twice!!!

ahhhh good times.
Jedibrad
Jedibrad
NSW
527 posts
NSW, 527 posts
24 Jul 2011 2:56pm
COL said...

Jedibrad said...

If there is waves to ride use a fish surfboard

They increase the fun/gustyness ratio


Not sure why you say that, in extreme conditions control is everything, I'd say the opposite, a pin tail is preferrable. But conditions have been beyond that anyway, when you're just trying to stay in 1 piece TT's the go.
Col


Well, if you read the original post i said it for the following reasons; using a small kite when the lulls come thru you can sine away and the board will float you, control issue, with your front foot close to the rail no problem, bonus is, if the wind dies or you break something you are paddling in after packing down, not swimming or worse heading out with the tide.
I'm no expert but it works for me

prea
prea
QLD
184 posts
QLD, 184 posts
25 Jul 2011 6:09pm
Its not the kiting or gusts that the problem, it's the swimming.

Its when it goes pair shaped, your kite gets eaten by a wave and you can't relaunch

This happened to me at Narrowneck Gold Coast gusting from 15 to 33kts and a resonable swell .

I was a long loong way out with a bad crash, winded confused, ended washed up at Seaworld 50 mins later and 3 Kms downwind.

Luckily surf lifesavers noticed and followed me down the beach in their vehicle.

It was a long walk of shame, but thankful to be back on the beach in one piece.

gordknot
gordknot
NSW
148 posts
NSW, 148 posts
25 Jul 2011 7:32pm
i'm liking the sound of Wellington. Some of the best sessions i've had are big swell and crankin gusty winds. it's cost me a couple of torn kites and pretty decent swims back in through the washing machine, but all good

dafish, the best tip i got was to keep your kite low - avoid having it overhead. that's where i've messed up with sudden loss of wind letting the kite fall out the sky above me, then boost off as the next big gust hits. Keeping it low means its still messy, but more managable. sounds like your doing it pretty right- self launching and self landing and keeping focused
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