the f-one m-5 2005 model has been given great reviews in europe. Worth a look

The B F K ...


reduced leading edge,

16, 18, 21 meter,

5th line,

regards browneee

Good question, I myself have been looking for a big kite, so I am interested in all your responses too. One big kite I heard was good was the Gaastra Phoenix due to its eliptical leading edge bladder (reduced drag).

Aperry, where were you a few weeks ago, I have a similar quiver to you. 10m Nitro, 13m Fuel, now looking for a big kite and I weigh 83kg. With the 17m CO2 what is your total wind range? and what strength wind do you pull out the 10m? I haven't had a go of my 10m as the wind dropped off when I bought it. DOH.

Lets hope the wind comes back again soon....

Personally the best big kite I have used is 20m Airush lift 2004 .
It is stable in the light winds that it is to be used in , yet will fly forward into the window and take you upwind when you start planing rather than drag you downwind like most other large kites I tried .
The main thing I found between a 20 and a high aspect 16 was that you could work the 16 to get going but the 20 would give you a floaty jump that gave me enough time to practice some tricks .
If you just want to get planing use a bigger board , if you want more hang time get a bigger kite .
If you go down to the CARPARK sale at AIRBORNE on Saturday there will be heap of bargains , I know they have quite a few big kites that they are putting stupid prices on .

Thanks everybody for the replies so far it looks like i am not the only one on the search for a big kite .
At the moment the largest kite i have is a 14m co2 ,which i think is great ,so i maybe able to use the same bar and line if i brought a CABRINHA of some sort.
Aperry it is interesting that you say that you would have brought the nitro insted of the CO2 because i have herd that the co2 17m flys better and relaunches better than the 17m nitro due to the lower AR and you see a lot of 17m nitro 04 ,forsale for around $650 but i am yet to see a co2 17m forsale. What wind range do you have with it and on what size board .Thanks
Brownee , a mate brought a 16m ex demo nemy of you real cheap which he really like so i might look at a 18m sometime .
Loose fin i am realy interested to here what you think of the Nitro because it is contrary to what i have heard .have you found that it can drop out of the sky in gusty condition due to it hight AR.
The kite you brought came with bar and line didn't it ? so with some luck i maybe able to just get a kite and use the bar from my 14m .
Thanks All

Ahh the big kite question...

Deciding what to look in a big kite takes just as much dedication and perhaps even better knowledge of kites in general than when hunting for a more normal sized, smaller kite. All the same principles of aspect ratio, foiling, leading edge diameter, strut shape, wing tip length, line length and bar size to name a few apply and can possibly be felt more readily. Smaller kites are by nature quicker so most will respond adequetly for most riders. Once a kite gets bigger all the factors like weight and drag also increase which in the past has lead to big kites earning the reputation of 'flies like a pig' and often justly so.

As many parts of the world are not as blessed with the great winds WA and other parts of Oz have it naturally follows that manufacturers are going to do their best to produce a big kite that is worth the effort of flying. Some brands might just make a bigger kite according to a smaller pattern but there are definitely reputable brands out there that design and test each kite in each size and model individually to deliver the best product at the time. Airush for example are designed and tested right here in Perth. Ever noticed all the odd-one-out colours of Airush kites at Scarborough in particular? Well those are the prototypes getting worked and analysed for the buyers benefit.

You will probably notice that most of the leading big kites in terms of performance have maintained the flying and turning speed of smaller kites, thus allowing penetration of the window for upwind ability and ability to work up a significant apparent wind. The foil of the kite and the manner in which it turns are important factors in determining the flying characteristics of a kite.

An efficient big kite that can be manouvered and flown quickly ought to have a finer foil, big kites that just sit back in the window and pull you along like a truck will usually have a deeper foil. You need to work out whether you prefer to work your kite or if you prefer to sit back and just let it pull. You will usually ger a better wind range and performance out of a higher aspect/finer foiled large kite. Unfortunately the average person can't just look at a kite and known what the foil is like so actually flying the kites and feeling their speed and responsiveness will indicate what sort of foil it has. Try to get the opinions of capable kiters who have actually flownany of the big kites you're interested in as it is easy to make generalisations (as I have here) but each kite will be different.

In a nut shell, work out what style of riding you like and then look at kites with characteristics that will suit you. As the others have said, whether you look at 17/18 or bigger depends on what your other current kite sizes are as well. At 94kg I reckon you're on track.

The Kitesurfing Carpark Clearance on Saturday 10am-3pm will have a number of large kites in all styles at TRULY RIDICULOUS prices. Check it out,

Team Airborne

yep go a PHEONIX they are the most efficient big kite on the market
check out SOS for the latest PHEONIX II

wayne

Hmm, I think the contra is probably the best 04 kite and probably best 05 kite aswell(Remember machine, bfk are 05). If you can keep it in the air then you will have enough power to ride a largish board without going downwind. The contra range is kind of setup differently to most big kites, you really select the size of the kite depending on your weight more than anything. 16.5 for lightweights 50-75kg 19.5 mediumweights 70-95kg 23.5m heavy weights 95kg+. The reason for this is, there is a limit to what wind a kite will really work in ~10knots. Below this a bigger kite wont really help going along. Only a bigger kite will allow fatter riders to go along in the same wind as smaller kiters.

The recon relaunch works pretty well aswell. Bit less complication.

I brought a beat up old x2 18 for $300, not that's an amazing price for a big kite. I've had far more than my $300's worth of fun out of it.. combined with a UDS it turns fast enough and I was surprised to find I can hold it up to and over 20kts no probs. Since I put a wave thru my 14 I've been using it in higher winds (over 15) and having great, big boosting sessions with it.

It's pretty much always got one bladder with a slow leak, and it is pretty hard to relaunch, touch a wingtip down and chances are it'll taco up and be a real pain to get going again..

Still, if you see one going I'd recommend it, I love mine..

I have just returned from the beach after test flying an 18M TITAN Flysurfer in a very light Leighton beach breeze - approx 6kts.
Here is my 2c worth - acknowledging 1st that :-
1)I havent flown any of the 'BIG' lightwind LEI kites yet.
2) for reference - Im 70kgs & 15M SS Fuel's my biggest & Im more than happy with that from about 12kts up to the changeover to my 11 Fuel.
3)This is a purely altruistic, strictly 'not-for-profit' kite review - I am not a shop! an no-one's paying me !
Given all that :-
Despite really wanting a kite that would extend my TOW down to well below the 12Kt wind range of my 15M FUEL I was very sceptical of any lightwind LEI kite purely because of relaunching ability. I was prepared to accept that all BIG kites would be slug-like performers but the major issue for me was I didnt want a kite that would leave me stranded, unable to relaunch with any slight drop in wind.
Hence my decision to give the foils a serious road test.
The 18M Titan lifted off the beach unaided (as flysurfers do) no problem (not even 1 pump needed :-); sorry had to throw that in)Board on & rearing to go I found my short, stabbing bar movements nowhere near sufficient to get this slow moving monster working. You really have to work the bar but once I had that sussed and got a bit (lot) more aggressive I was off & rocking.
Upwind in 6/7 kts NO PROBLEM AT ALL in fact that only it lasted about 100M before virtual wind from increasing board speed over-powered me to 'completely off whack' (as well as off board :-( ) sending the kite unceremoniously into the water.
AW GAWD - HERE WE GO - I thought with trepidation as I looked at ALL that kite (its a big f'ker no doubtin that AND with no sealed off bladders of flotation) wallowing in the near glassy conditions 3 or 4 hundred metres offshore in what was turning into a slightly side off-shore wind - " GULP GULP PANIC Oh Shyte wot have I dun here"
But hey - here is the beauty folks - even with my limited skills, virtually no experience of actually flying a flysurfer (although did learn on one way back when) I simply depowered, pulled in the LE line about armslength dropped it & up it flew (OoooHHhh thank U Lordy) - effortless & SWEET AS. And even then I managed to gain some ground again (briefly) on the way back in.
Overall - I have to admit it was a very very messy trial run.
BUT that was all due to kite handling issues/ability - nothing to do with the kite. Two sessions in 6>12kts, a bit of kite-confidence & I reckon I'll have it absolutely under control. The 18M Titan is a real 6>12kt safe, upwind cruising possibilty.
SUMMARY - If you are looking for a monster kite so you're not left sitting on the beach or driving home when it refuses to blow the required 12/15kts at least give the big Flysurfers a serious trial.
So far as my travels in the kiting world have taken me I reckon that until others can come up with REAL lightwind relaunch ability the "lightwind kites" are bound to leave you stranded & swimming far too often to make the move to this extreme, 'for desperates only' BIG kite size worthwhile.
Check It Out.
NB: advice to me is that 18M Titan = perhaps 25M2 LEI equivalent ?? Suggest you compare the real/rideable wind range etc. at this monster size rather than working from measured M2 flat or M2 projected rates or published 'wind range' figures.

quote:

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Originally posted by gruezi

Hey Puppet, you dropped it....and got the moster up again. How many times did this happen?

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Danke for that widely circulated tit-bit of added info Gruezi [}:)]
If U really want to know it was only once unintentionally - all those other times I was working hard at putting it down deliberately so I could check that it really was that easy to relaunch and that the 1st time wasnt just a difficult-to-repeat kite-fluke

there was a bit more then 6 knots yesterday, where i was people were powered on 16's

Aperry and loosefin
What size bar do you use on your 17m is it the 54cm or the 51cm ?
If it is the larger of the two do you know if the 51cm bar will work on the 17m ? i think it will only make it a little faster if anything which would be nice .
thanks for all the help
Puppet thank for yet another informative and non bias review ,but when there is that little wind it is time to go wakeboarding and practice the tricks .

Sorry guys, I'm with Somerandom and dachopper, 6kts??? The graphs from yesterday show 09KTSG14.

Was down at Meville Water today expecting a fairly decent run with about 14-16kts, thought I'd give it ago anyway but got down there and wind dropped <10kts, DOH.

So in desperate need of big kite, whats the best? The only guy that had a decent run albeit it was for 5 min was on an Airush 18m.

I've flown a few brands not mentioned here, and my vote would go for
Best Nemesis 18M for riders in the 70 - 90kg range (board 140 - 160 x 40+ wide) 30M lines
Best Nemesis 21M for riders above 95kg, same with lines and board as big as possible/practical.
North R4 18 or 20M
Flexifoil Storm3 18.5M

All the above fly very well, and are available now at bargain prices, we have several used ones in stock, with prices a slow as $500, even a Slingshot Fuel 03 brand new for $700 complete. Check the used section of our website.

The practical lower wind limit for all inflatable kites is around 8 knots steady wind, if is dropping in the lulls below this you will end up downwind or swimming.
Good foils will get you a couple of knots lower than this, but that is really pushing it, if the wind is dropping in lulls below 6 knots you will be swimming with something that does not float well!!
Foils do hang in the sky better in lulls than inflatos though.
In light winds use the longest lines you can and use the biggest board that you can find, work the kite, but do not over sheet it, always give the kite plenty of front line tension, pull the strap in a bit which speeds the kite up, faster kites in lighter winds work better, so high AR is a must for a good light wind machine. Extracting the best performance from a big kite in light winds is a real mind game, and the more you understand how you kite flies, the better you experience in light winds will be.

Cya and

Goodwinds

Steve McCormack