Yesterday I had to assist the lifeguards rescue a kiter at pinnas..
As I was talking to the girl (who could not relaunch) I told her to self rescue, but she didn't know how.

Please make sure you learn and practice this essential skill. Speaking from experience it can get pretty stressful when you need to self rescue a kilometer out, so I believe that this is the most important thing you can learn.

LiveToFly said...

CowboyWA said...

Yesterday I had to assist the lifeguards rescue a kiter at pinnas..
As I was talking to the girl (who could not relaunch) I told her to self rescue, but she didn't know how.

Please make sure you learn and practice this essential skill. Speaking from experience it can get pretty stressful when you need to self rescue a kilometer out, so I believe that this is the most important thing you can learn.

Totes agree. You shouldn't go in the water if you haven't been told the theory of self rescue. I think when learning its a good idea to do one at the end of every body dragging session so when it happens for real your calm and relaxed and it a piece of cake.

There's mixed opinions on what line to wrap up initially I've found. I was taught to take in the line that your kite flags out to. So for all my kites its been one of the non steering lines. This has worked fine for me but some people are adamant that one of the steering lines works best.

Can any instructors shed light on this? I could be wrong but this theory has worked well for me. If it's a 5 line kite I've found one of the front lines works well too.

You shouldn't go in kiting the deep waters if you haven't been told the theory of trained to self rescue in deep water.

Being told how to self-rescue or even being shown how to do self-rescue or even simulating a self-rescue on the beach or in shallow water are all insufficient/incomplete training methods until one can actually successfully achieve the self-rescue alone in deep water without any assistance.

Unfortunately the majority of instructors won't go very far in training the students to actually MASTER this essential skill...thinking a simple demo or a practice on the beach/shallow water or an explanation is enough....not to mention all the beginners coming out of their lessons without even ever being shown or told about the self-rescue.

A kiter is only truly safe and independent if they have been trained to pull the release system multiple times and recover the kite themselves and secure it alone if on the beach/shallow water or continue on creating an efficient sail (self-rescue) if in deep water. All this ultimately without any assistance from the instructor.

As for the method of self-rescue itself, I believe part of the problem is that the most popular method of self-rescue taught around the world involves securing the leash line around the bar, (wrapping the safety line + doing two half-hitch knots), then wrapping all other 25m lines to retrieve the kite, then doing two more half-hitch knots with all the lines...then create sail. Now this is all sounding great in theory and easily demo'ed on the beach or shallow water. BUT...in the real life in deep water situations in heavy winds and chop (like today in Perth for example...), very few people could actually quickly and successfully do this. Which is why most untrained kiters don't even try...and also why most instructors won't ever let the student practice it deep water alone.

As discussed in previous topics, the kite can easily, quickly and safely be recovered if when once the kite is fully depowered the kiter climbs up hand over hand on the safety line (only one of the center lines), then grabbing the kite (easily done in less than 30 seconds with the proper training and practice) and creating a sail.

Definitely NEVER grab a back line to recover the kite, in strong wind this could easily cause the kite to spiral out of control and rip your skin off in the process.

In all the boat or kite rescues I've done, helped with or witnessed in the last few years, there is always one thing in common, the kiter has not been TRAINED to self-rescue...and in the majority of cases they are all hesitating to activate the chicken loop quick release, because the majority of them are STILL hooked in when you come help them...

Since I started managing a kite school where we teach the self-rescue techniques without wrapping any of the lines, all students are capable of performing a deep water self-rescue quickly, without any assistance, in any wind condition. And best of all none of them (a little over 500 students) ever needed to be rescued by others.

If a beginner can't self-rescue quickly and efficiently alone in deep water without assistance, then they shouldn't be taught to body drag or even worse to put a board in their feet...

If you learn in shallow waters, you need to know that the most common type of location for kiting around the world IS deep water, therefore you should always be taught to self-rescue even if this means walking out far to a deeper area or body dragging out do a deeper area where you can practice the self-rescue without touching the ground.

The fact that a good number of kiters out there are untrained to self-rescue is alarming...there is a lot of work to be done if we want everyone to be skillful in self-rescuing.

''telling doesn't ensure learning'' is one of the most fundamental concept's of pedagogy...if you can't understand that then you don't know much about teaching.

A demo and a practice on the beach or shallow water always helps and is necessary but what really makes the difference is the practice from the learner in a real situation.

Whatever skill you're trying to learn goes through a training cycle:

1) explanation -> 2) demonstration -> 3) student practice with assistance -> 4) feed-back 5) student practice without assistance until skill is mastered 6) repeat cycle if necessary.

The bottom line is no instructor out there can claim their students can self-rescue if they haven't seen them perform a complete self-rescue on their own without any assistance (verbal or physical) in a deep water scenario in appropriate winds (15-25 knots)

Some students require to practice the self-rescue in deep waters, alone multiple times until they can actually be able to do it easily without any help.

Self-rescue is a vastly overlooked skill in most lessons and not taught properly as in most cases the instructor doesn't go further than the explanation and demonstration phase in the training cycle.

If you think an explanation and demonstration is enough to teach someone to self-rescue, then explain to me why so many people out there need to be rescued on a daily basis?

Cbulota,
You've reminded me it is time to practice self rescue again! Havent need to for quite a while.

With your 'trailing lines' method, do you disconnect from chicken loop and harness saftey so the complete bar and lines set is trailing behind you? Or just hit the first safety to depower the kite and let the lines trail, but still connected to you.

Thanks for your advice

just cublota
u clearly know what ur talking about
but with free lines come tangles
sometimes tangles around your leg
sometimes tangles around some reef
and it's all well and good to say don't kite near reef
but the last time I self rescued over reef I'd already been blown a kilometre off course

just food for thought

MadMonty said...

As discussed in previous topics, the kite can easily, quickly and safely be recovered if when once the kite is fully depowered the kiter climbs up hand over hand on the safety line (only one of the center lines), then grabbing the kite (easily done in less than 30 seconds with the proper training and practice) and creating a sail.

I did my first self-rescue early this year and started by following this method.
However I found the lines really hard to avoid and was paranoid about the kite launching with a line around my leg.
Wrapping up the lines was slow but seemed far safer.
How do you advise students to stay clear of the lines?

Yep I agree, this method is dangerous for many reasons and should not be performed.

All lines should be wrapped around the bar, after one is wrapped at least 10 times around the bar.

dusta said...

LiveToFly said...


All lines should be wrapped around the bar, after one is wrapped at least 10 times around the bar.

bollox . Try getting a beginner to wrap the lines around their bar in 20+knots . Add in chop etc and it's near on impossible and tiring . Using cbulota's method there is no issues with line wrapping around limbs as you quickly swim down the centre line and as you are doing that your bar and lines are spreading out in a horseshoe shape behind you . You should be at your kite in under 30 seconds. I can honestly say every time i have swam down the centre line i can lay my lines out in minutes as opposed to having to sort out a birdsnest after trying to wrap lines around the bar .

Bollox times 2.

As if a noob can easily swim up a centre line without causing a birds nest behind them. It's far too easy for one of the lines to tangle around their legs and cause huge problems and possible injuries. If you can't wrap lines around a bar your other learning in the wrong conditions and shouldn't be out, or your piss weak!

zarb said...
What about in a circumstance where time is a limiting factor? It would be nice to be able to wrap up all the lines, but what if there are rocks further downwind? I would prefer to get up to the kite and create a sail asap.

If thats the case then you shouldn't have put yourself in that situation. Either punch out the safety earlier to give you enough time and/or don't learn to kite where there are any obstacles close downwind, such as rocks, bouys, boats, trees, roads, etc.

Iv self rescued half a dozen times the past few months, from 5-30kn most just for practice and one for real - Actaully SR at pinnaroo when the wind died, saw AKS rescue a guy with their boat (3weeks ago)

Wrapping the lines around the bar rather than end to end is the easiet way, try end to end wrapping in 30kn!

Using the hand over hand for the safety line in theory sounds good but when you've got multiple lines 24m in length around you and your going over reef/swell it would not be pretty.

Biggest tip to unravel your lines on the beach is to not remove the lines from the kite. Having the tension connected from the kite helps

Peterc150 said...
Wrapping lines around one end of the bar is much easier than wrapping end-to-end along the bar (as per normal). Its slower, but easier as you don't have to reef in as much line.

Yeah, I think that the best way, too. Plus, if you swim through the lines and decide halfway to abort the rescue and ditch the kite altogether it's going to be tough to get out of the mess without strangling yourself.

Looking at the forecast for the next few days, I might have ample opportunity to practice

NickT said...
Pedagoggy? think you might of slipped some French in there dude!

[i]

ped·a·go·gy
/ˈpedəˌgäjē/
Noun
The method and practice of teaching

Just for you nick

The inability for many kiters to self-rescue has become such a big issue that Surf Life Saving WA in partnership with WAKSA and the Department of Sport and Recreation have decided to organize a meeting to discuss SAFETY issues in kiting.

Obviously if every school and every instructor was doing such a great job at teaching self-rescue you'd think we wouldn't have this problem as the vast majority of kiters out there have had lessons before!

It's never easy to hear that you're not as good as you think you are, but these are just facts: self-rescue is a poorly taught skill and is not well understood and not well mastered by many kiters out there. Failure to recognize this problem just means that there is no way to solve it.

Another fact is: self-rescuing by wrapping the lines around the bar is difficult to do and can be very dangerous if you're doing it wrong. Thus it's also difficult to teach this method and for the student to practice this method safely in a REAL scenario (not on the beach or in shallow water or in 15 knots).

For the record I got nothing against people wrapping lines around the bar for self-rescue. If it can be done quickly and effortlessly it's probably a better idea ayways, but the fact is it's very rarely the case...

Are there any schools or instructors out there that have been training their students to self-rescue in strong winds (20 knots + ) by wrapping the lines, in deep water. This means actually seeing the student perform a full self-rescue alone by wrapping the lines around the bar quickly, in strong winds and deep water chop?...

LiveToFly: nobody said anything about swimming towards your kite, that's actually what I tell all my students NOT to do. Pull yourself up the safety line and if you pay a minimum of attention to your lines along the way you can come back to the shore after a rescue with minimal to NO tangles as the majority of our students can achieve after a few practices.

You cannot argue the pro and con's of any method without having actually tried it, let alone probably never have taught a lesson.

I challenge you to teach any novice kiter out there that has never heard about or done a self-rescue, the technique of wrapping the lines around the bar in strong winds and deep choppy waters. GOOD LUCK!

Also for the record, I spent the last 10 years making a living of training and certifying snowboard instructors around the world (and also kiteboarding for the last 3 years) while in the meantime studying a bachelors and masters degree in sport science, with a specialization in coaching and pedagogy (yes it's an English word). My entire thesis is based on how coaches develop their knowledge and expertise.

So before you talk down on my methodology, please detail your experience and qualifications in that field.

cbulota: Under what circumstances (if any) would you recommend wrapping the lines over the bar?

cbulota is spot on here. (good that we can agree sometimes )
It may not be the recommended schedule of all the recognised instructor programs but "Self Rescue" is the very first practical skill which should be taught in the lesson program.
Apart from the obvious safety aspect of teaching this procedure first there is no reason not to.
Self Rescue requires no kite flying skill or practice.
Self Rescue does not even rely on body dragging for it to be taught & practiced.
And it is a great way to develop confidence in the student before he/she has to manage a kite in powered situations.

I also agree with those who bring up the issue of retrieving your kite amongst untethered lines. This can be scary as lines are floating all around you as you retrieve on the one safety line. But wrapping your lines in real world situations also has its issues.

There is another thread running re 'Impact Vests'. For beginners, or anyone, practicing Self Rescue the assistance of some added floatation makes the whole process a whole lot more 'user friendly' and quite likely less messy. But remember - when the time comes that you need it you probably wont have this teaching aid advantage to rely on. So once you've got it down pat add a few more practice runs without the vest.

I'm a first season kiter, had lessons, watched the vids, read as much as I could and am also a qualified apprentice trainer, so I understand the importance of training techniques and agree with everything cbulota has said so far.
Ive had the misfortune to get my lines all weeded up, looped the bejesus out of my kite, tying 3 lines together and been dragged by a 25 knotter. After fighting it for a while, I released the safety, climbed the centre lines, dumped the kite into the drink and successfully self rescued. Yay!
Being a trainer I am now disgusted to discover these O **** handles my bar has. Theres a picture in my owner manual, but they are not listed in the components and are not mentioned at by the manufacturer. I havent seen them used in any vid. Safety or otherwise. (obviously I havent seen every vid ever made) But these devices appear to be a great way to depower your kite should you be in my kitemare having your centre lines and flying lines restrained by a clump of weed the size of an esky.
Please correct me if I'm on the wrong track here, but if you have one flying line clear and attach your harness to the O **** handle, then release your safety, would the kite then not just flag out, completely depowered?
Most of the real safety issues that will save lives seem to be discussed in forums like this and word of mouth.
How about the manufacturers issuing complete instructions on their products?
If I'm wrong about the O **** handles, can someone tell me what they are really supposed to do?