Am I overpowered

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airush
airush
WA
44 posts
WA, 44 posts
12 Aug 2013 11:28am
Relatively new to the sport, less than 12 months.

70kg and riding a Lithium 10m

I find it difficult to push the bar to maximum de-power (seems like such a long reach) without over balancing. What I find I have to do is take my front hand off the bar and lean further back, but as soon as I go to put my front hand back on the bar again it feels to overpowered and I have to either push bar back with both hands OR take front hand off again.

Im thinking if I could somehow adjust the depower so that I only have to push the bar out half the distance to lose a bit of power this would work. Was thinking of adjusting the steering line tails.

Would this work?
SaltySinus
SaltySinus
VIC
960 posts
VIC, 960 posts
12 Aug 2013 2:14pm
It's probably one or both of two things:

1.) yes over powered - usual depower system should adjust this
2.) If you're leaning forward to push the bar out, you may be doing the 'poo stance' rather than leaning back against the power and edging effectively. You should be able to control the power by leaning back and edging (digging in your back foot hard). If you're doing this and still being pulled off your edge (so you fly feet first over the water) then you're def over powered.

Best way to check is : 1. see what everyone else at your kite beach is flying that day, and your kite should be no bigger than what they're flying (especially given your lean 70kg). 2. Fully depower the kite via the straps on the the depower system, try a water start. If you're under powered, add a little more power on the straps, and repeat until you've got the right power. I.e. start off with insufficient power and dial it in, rather than starting over powered, and taking the power off.

Good luck.
KiteBud
KiteBud
WA
1615 posts
WA, 1615 posts
12 Aug 2013 3:25pm
Some good advice already, although...

Airush bars have a very long bar throw and very short trim strap adjustment, almost no difference when you use it.

If the sweet spot of your bar is too far from the chicken loop while you ride it's most likely due to the fact that:

-Your kite is too big for the wind strength vs your body weight. 70kg, 10m Lithium you should start to feel very well powered at 20 knots and overpowered around 23-25 knots.

-Your front lines are longer than your back lines which causes your kite to be overpowered and the sweet spot to be further away.

On the Airush bars the adjustment for this is usually (depends on the year) on the front lines underneath the black neoprene cover you will see a few pig tail knots, remove the larks head knot and shorten your front lines if needed so that all your lines are about the same length.

You can use this video that I've prepared with a friend to help you tune your bar...first step is to connect your lines to a fixed point and measure the length difference. Let us know how that goes.

Kamikuza
Kamikuza
QLD
6493 posts
QLD, 6493 posts
12 Aug 2013 7:23pm
Long story short - stance (form) is the key to good board control is the key to kite control is the key to handling more wind.
Start here - www.iksurfmag.com/issue5/?t=Stance-2007-Kitesurfing-Technique&page=49
Then trim the kite to ensure that you can ride with good form without being yanked off your edge. Easy

Short story long . . . kiting is all about trim

Dealing with the power of a kite requires board skills. No really! (And I'm shocked nobody has yet said "I remember when kite bars had 3 inches of throw and we had to use the board to handle gusts" . . . or 2-line kites!)

I want to geek a bit and moan about when people talk about the trim system and the state of your lines as "over-powered". It's not a depower system, it's a TRIM system; you should be tuning your kite for optimal Lift/Drag performance, not thinking you've made the kite "less powerful". Your lines are out of spec or untuned, ruining the trim of the kite - not over-powering it. You're not depowering the kite, you're sheeting out and altering the Angle of Attack, to adjust the trim for optimal L/D. . . .
We're talking about the same thing, but words like "depower" give a false impression (especially of safety) . . . ask a pilot what he does with the control stick - he won't talk about "powering" the plane. We're doing the same thing with the bar.

First step, make sure your kite is trimmed correctly (which is more important than many realize); at the VERY LEAST (1) ensure your lines are the right relative lengths: most kites these days require the bar to be against the CL and the lines to be equal at the pigtails. Do this a couple of times a season under you get a feel for how much your steering lines shrink (NOT center lines stretch )

Then (2) trim the kite on the beach when you launch . . . a little more tricky and not something I believe I've learnt well. Essentially, the kite should be altering it's Angle of Attack (what you actually do by sheeting the bar in and out - NOT powering/depowering the kite!!!) without distorting the tips when you sheet in.
And remember, as Uncle Plummet has said - if you have to trim the kite to cope with the wind strength, get a smaller kite

Next, kite and board selection, it's all relative to weight and preferences . . . I'm fat and will often fly kites that are 100% or bigger than other people - I'm lazy, hate working kites, just like to park, ride and BOOST.
At your weight, as a beginner, select your kite & board on the day, for the recommended wind ranges by the manufacturer (then tune as you feel it needs to be. That feeling will change over time too )

So you're kiting with good power under a properly trimmed kite and . . . omg! a gust!

Use the board, Luke!

Last point is, board control. Edging hard against the kite drives the kite ahead, to the edge of the window where - do you remember? - the wind is actually weaker. You'll also go upwind at a higher angle so you'll feel less power in the kite and go slower! Get the kite down lower too, below 45 degrees so you can lean back against the kite and drive your heels into the water.

Sounds counter-intuitive, but try it out one day when you've got good water under you, distance from shore and other kiters. Concentrate on not moving the bar (easy if you're all trimmed right), then just lean back and edge hard. Watch the kite and feel what happens to your speed . . .

Now, why NOT just sheet out and luff the kite? Control. If you're balanced on the board (trimmed the board properly - OMG trim again!) and have good form, you won't loose your angle upwind, you'll have the kite under control, and you'll be riding under control, consistently. And then you'll have a margin of error for when things really go to hell . . .

To review . . .
trim system - not depower.
sheet in/out - not depower.
Tune your lines!
Tune your kite!
Choose the right gear for the wind strength.
Stance.
Use the board!
Control!
cauncy
cauncy
WA
8407 posts
WA, 8407 posts
12 Aug 2013 7:29pm
All good advice, but as a newbie the board control takes a bit of mastering, especially if your relying on killing the over powering, de tune the kite 1st then if your still overpowered youll need a smaller kite until you learn to reduce the pull by edging,, an oversized board may be contributing to the over powering,, when your de tuning your kite your closing the face of the kite to the wind so bringing the leading edge down, also short back lines can open the face to the wind when pulling on the bar, get back on your heels early when starting as youll be more prepared if the wind picks up one your over the board and over powered its harder to get under control, dont let the kite boss you around
snalberski
snalberski
WA
858 posts
WA, 858 posts
12 Aug 2013 11:00pm
try a seat harness
Fly on da wall
Fly on da wall
SA
725 posts
SA, 725 posts
13 Aug 2013 11:08am
kamikusa is on the ball! Maybe try a lesson or two from someone who will
give you the correct information too get you ripping!

Too many choice's and there's way too much information on what you need..
Rails
Rails
QLD
1371 posts
QLD, 1371 posts
15 Aug 2013 7:38am
Like they said
Drive your back foot in (can even pump it a bit) and edge until you feel yourself slowing down
Then you are in control
Jared888
Jared888
WA
389 posts
WA, 389 posts
18 Aug 2013 2:24pm
Good info from Kamikusa, I often kite in gusty condition and can vouch for getting the kite low and edging hard to get it to the edge of the window then sheet out a bit to smooth out the bumps.

I would like to add, BOARD CHOICE,
I find it hard to edge hard enough to get the kite to the edge of the window on a surfboard and harder to get kite low whilst in the surf but it is relative as I always fly a smaller kite when using a surf board. When using a TT I have a Cardboard PRO and its basically a rectangle (square corners) when using this board I can push the kite around a heap by edging harder I do weigh a paid for 100kgs though
Kazan
Kazan
QLD
699 posts
QLD, 699 posts
19 Aug 2013 11:31am
So let me ask you this.

The steering bridles on most kites, have three knots. The first knot I was told is for light wind days, the 2nd knot is the most commonly used for basic board riding, and the third knot (counting by the way from the end of the bridle line into the kite) is for pros with loops and jumps in mind. Is that right?
Also, on my kite at least, there are two connecting bridles along the LE. One set closer to the centre of the kite and another set further out, which is what the bridle lines were connected to when I purchased it. I have not tried the "inner" bridles. What are they for and what do they do? I suspect they alter the sensitivity to the AoA. The more centred the bridles are to the middle of the kite (or LE), the less AOA?
airush
airush
WA
44 posts
WA, 44 posts
31 Aug 2013 6:04pm
hey Cbulota

tks for the tip, Finally got round to checking my line lengths and you were right, centre line was about 8 inches longer. so have shortened as explained and it seems to have made a difference. Felt a little weird the first time out after the adjustment with having to pretty much have the bar right in against the Chicken loop to get the power, but certainly noticed the difference in the depower once the bar is pushed out.

Kamikuza

Yep, agree with your comments. Thanks heaps. have dedicated 2 sessions to trying out your comments and i gotta admit it is making a difference

Also moved to a smaller board 132 - cabrinha from my old 142, this has helped thanks cauncy. happy dayz

kazan - imo i think its the other way around - steering line pigtails! The knot closest to the leading edge is used in normal conditions? then if wind speed increases you can secure steering lines FURTHER away from the leading edge - but im not an expert, this was what was explained to me by my instructor. Sorry cant help with the settings for your centre lines, not sure on that one myself.
pattiecannon
pattiecannon
QLD
593 posts
QLD, 593 posts
4 Sep 2013 12:19am
Let me guess airush, you're in a waist harness?

you're 70 kg so unless you're the skinniest dude around you're under 5'10" and you look more like paul mccartney than joey ramone when you play a guitar?

Get a seat harness, gives you more reach. When you start rocking waves or getting into freestyle comps change to an 'engine' harness, and also do what Kamikuza said.

Trim your kite.

Too much wind for your kite/ overpowered , last knot on your back lines. (if you're still overpowered - you need a smaller kite)
Not enough wind to get you rocking, highest knot on your back lines. (if it starts backstalling on this setting you simply need a bigger board or a bigger kite or both)
oibill
oibill
2 posts
2 posts
5 Sep 2013 8:04am
I have a question relating to my airush lithium 2010 10m...
Back ground :- been flying ozone 2007's 9m and 12m's without any problem since 2009 ..
Recently got a airush 2010 lithium and an analog bar. all new (ex stock)..

My Issue :-
When ive been flying the airush I find that it has so much more power than the 9m and feels alot less safe due to the amount of pull (both while walking up the beach or sitting the kite over head.)

I hadnt checked the settings on the bar until tonight until reading the above posts. I discovered the rear lines were set on the second knot down from the top knot next to the lines.

Would this make a difference a big difference ?...

I understand that if the rear lines are slacker this will alter the kites angle of attack. / Also by moving the power lines further down towards depower strap would take even more wind out the kite.

Should i play around with the bar settings..

Ps.. all the lines were new, but i havent checked that the line lengths are equal yet..



oibill
oibill
2 posts
2 posts
5 Sep 2013 8:16am
oibill said..

I have a question relating to my airush lithium 2010 10m...
Back ground :- been flying ozone 2007's 9m and 12m's without any problem since 2009 ..
Recently got a airush 2010 lithium and an analog bar. all new (ex stock)..

My Issue :-
When ive been flying the airush I find that it has so much more power than the 9m and feels alot less safe due to the amount of pull (both while walking up the beach or sitting the kite over head.)

I hadnt checked the settings on the bar until tonight until reading the above posts. I discovered the rear lines were set on the second knot down from the top knot next to the lines.

Would this make a difference a big difference ?...

I understand that if the rear lines are slacker this will alter the kites angle of attack. / Also by moving the power lines further down towards depower strap would take even more wind out the kite.

Should i play around with the bar settings..

Ps.. all the lines were new, but i havent checked that the line lengths are equal yet..





Should have mentioned, ive had to ajust the rear lines on the ozones and it doesnt seem to make a difference other than to the steering.. ie tightening the lines when they have stretched will stop the kite dropping out the sky and making it more difficulty to bring the kite back over head.. if you know what i mean.. The ozones use the 5th line to angle the kite..
Airborne
Airborne
WA
224 posts
WA, 224 posts
11 Sep 2013 4:28pm
oibill said..

I have a question relating to my airush lithium 2010 10m...
Back ground :- been flying ozone 2007's 9m and 12m's without any problem since 2009 ..
Recently got a airush 2010 lithium and an analog bar. all new (ex stock)..

My Issue :-
When ive been flying the airush I find that it has so much more power than the 9m and feels alot less safe due to the amount of pull (both while walking up the beach or sitting the kite over head.)

I hadnt checked the settings on the bar until tonight until reading the above posts. I discovered the rear lines were set on the second knot down from the top knot next to the lines.

Would this make a difference a big difference ?...

I understand that if the rear lines are slacker this will alter the kites angle of attack. / Also by moving the power lines further down towards depower strap would take even more wind out the kite.

Should i play around with the bar settings..

Ps.. all the lines were new, but i havent checked that the line lengths are equal yet..





I can understand that you feel the 2010 10m Lithium has more power than your old 2007 9m Ozone. I would expect this to come down to the age of the design of the kites. From 2008-2012 kite design came along in leaps and bounds and right across the board made huge improvements. But i am shocked to hear that you feel your 10m Lithium is "less safe" this to me says that your kite might not be tuned correctly. The Lithium is a super user friendly kite and if used properly (within its intended wind range) should be giving you confidence and be easy and safe to fly.

Don't stress too much about this line being on this knot or that knot. It is the overall length of the lines that you need to look at.

Airush design their bars so that all the lines should be the same length when the bar is set to full power. So when the bar is pulled all the way down and the webbing trim strap is at full power then all your lines should be the same length (this is the same system that most decent kite brands are using these days).

It is surprisingly common to see newbies and intermediates struggling on poorly trimmed kites. It makes a huge difference to the performance of the kite and a badly tuned kite can at times be outright dangerous!

It only takes 5 mins to check and tune a bar so it is something that every kiter should be doing at least every 6 months.

If you are in Perth and are unsure about your bar and lines pop past and see us in the shop and we can check it over for you (free of charge)
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