Controlling Speed

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switchbkiter
switchbkiter
QLD
12 posts
QLD, 12 posts
2 Nov 2012 8:38am
Hi,
I have about 10 hours of kite surfing experience on a board and I am having trouble controlling my speed. I am 90kg riding a 12m switchblade with a 148cm cabrinha prodigy board in 16-25 knots (east coast).

The problem I am having is that at some point I generate excessive speed and then no matter how hard I edge or how much I sheet out I just keep going flat out even if i bear down wind. Is my board too big stopping me from edging harder?

putting the kite higher in the window seems to help, but I often still can't slow down for about 50m...
magentaninja
magentaninja
QLD
50 posts
QLD, 50 posts
2 Nov 2012 8:55am
I know you said you have tried edging hard but forgetting the 'hard' part of it have you tried edging more upwind. Sometimes I find that you can edge hard but if you're not pointing your board upwind you not moving the kite to the edge of the wind window and therefore not reducing the power.

If you are generally over-powered have you tried trimming the kite straps for less power?



Markie
Markie
QLD
48 posts
QLD, 48 posts
2 Nov 2012 9:48am
Try riding hard at the kite to create a bit of slack in the lines then edge hard upwind to regain control.

At 25kts though you probably want a smaller kite!
Saffer
Saffer
VIC
4501 posts
VIC, 4501 posts
2 Nov 2012 1:23pm
ABS - Ass Breaking System

Making sure you have a butt plug to prevent the impending water enema. :)
Chris_M
Chris_M
2132 posts
2132 posts
2 Nov 2012 12:25pm
Sounds like you are getting overpowered when its around 25knots. As well as edging upwind, you also need to bring your kite up to 12. This will stop you being pulled in the direction you are speeding in.
If you are edging but keeping your kite at 10 or 2 you'll keep speeding up, so bring that kite up high AND edge to slow down.

Give it a try and let me know how you get on
KiteBud
KiteBud
WA
1615 posts
WA, 1615 posts
2 Nov 2012 12:59pm
Apart from what's been mentioned already, you'll definitely find it harder to edge on a board as big as what you have, big boards are typically wider as well which adds to your difficulty of edging. 148cm is a great size to learn how to get up and glide for your body weight, but at your level you should already look at changing your board to a more reasonable size, such as between 135-138cm length X 39-41cm width for example. This will make a big difference in your ability to edge the board harder and therefore control your speed much better.
Chris_M
Chris_M
2132 posts
2132 posts
2 Nov 2012 2:19pm
cbulota said...
Apart from what's been mentioned already, you'll definitely find it harder to edge on a board as big as what you have, big boards are typically wider as well which adds to your difficulty of edging. 148cm is a great size to learn how to get up and glide for your body weight, but at your level you should already look at changing your board to a more reasonable size, such as between 135-138cm length X 39-41cm width for example. This will make a big difference in your ability to edge the board harder and therefore control your speed much better.


Yep, this is a good point too!
Plummet
Plummet
4862 posts
4862 posts
2 Nov 2012 2:31pm
25knots on a 12 is pretty powered. get a smaller kite!

but you can go down wind. your speed up momentarily then start to slow down the more down wind you go.

my most favoured speed killing technique. send it and jump!.

but perhaps not at 10 hours of riding!
SpawnofFossl
SpawnofFossl
SA
116 posts
SA, 116 posts
2 Nov 2012 5:53pm
Part of the issue may be that if you are keeping the kite too high in the window and the wind is cranking then it is going to pull you off of your edge. If this is the case then you can "edge" as hard as you like and it is going to make no difference. This is of course all dependent on your kite control because a lower to the water kite can also have other dis-advantages.

Part of the learning experience is knowing where the power is in the kite dependent on where it is in the wind window. A kite that is lower to the water will pull more horizontally rather than vertically thus making it a little easier to hold your edge.

Magenta is right in stating that you need to concentrate on board control and direction because when you are learning you are likely standing with a pooh squat stance therefore making it difficult to direct your board.

My recommendation is to look at giving 25+ knot winds a break while you are learning and aim for the 17-23ish range. This way you can concentrate on working on the little things that will give you more control.

If you can find someone with a smaller board that is willing to let you test it out then this is probably a good option. There would be nothing worse than ditching your 148 and finding out you are still rubbish on a smaller board due to technique.

If you do feel you need to get a smaller board and you can afford to keep the 148 I would suggest to keep it for lighter wind days.
AquaPlow
AquaPlow
QLD
1066 posts
QLD, 1066 posts
4 Nov 2012 1:55pm
SBK - Hi. There are elements in most of the post which are on the money.
Edging - imagine the board flat. Imagine the centre point (right in the middle) is where you rotate/turn/balance around.
If you put your weight more on your back foot it tips back and vis-versa.
Angle the board to look like it would riding heel side. If you put more weight on the back foot you edge harder behind the turn point this turns you into the wind. If you put more weight on your front foot you turn down wind.

You probably know this already, but the trick comes to thinking what U R trying to do when over powered. Try not to bend in the middle (poo stance) you loose your edging pressure. Try to keep your weight slightly behind the rotation point (longer front leg stance / slightly bent back leg stance). Actively think push down on the heels - not just leg pressure. Bend the back leg more to get a lower stance - even think to try and lift the front foot up a little.

First up practise when you are in ok conditions - track an 'S' path thru' the water using the edging (i.e. on / off).
Second - set your self emergency stops and see how U go.

Having said all this - you can still find yourself too light on your feet to think controlling this is easy.
A really good tip was standing up - you go towards the kite - the tension in the lines drops - you use this to get your stance set and then drop into it.
Check out this clip - 3m 20s mark.. really exaggerates this - Mike flattens his board then loads up to get "pop" that is what we are referring to.


I started on a 157 (they made the sale & I was none the wiser) and it was often too large for the wind condtions - you have to exaggerate - realistically - over 25 knots at your level - is pushing the envelope on your kit - make sure it stays fun (also = safe)

cheers
AP.

AquaPlow
AquaPlow
QLD
1066 posts
QLD, 1066 posts
5 Nov 2012 10:10am

I should point out if you move your kite fast across the window from where it is at say 2-3 oclock back thru 12 to 2 it is called sending the kite - with any pop from the board you will take off - your first hopefully deliberate jump - do not do this until you want to....

If you think you have a handle on all the above comments, see if U can demo or borrow a smaller board and check out how much control this does / doesn't give u.

Your likely next purchase will be a smaller board - the most common range is 130-140 cms varying widths - depends on style UR looking for (Wake - thru free-ride often small surf).

One thing to be aware of as soon as you flatten your board slightly - say due to a wind gust - you will skim if you are powered which can feel like U have lost it... at 148 cms your board has a large surface area ...

Setting the depower when it is windy - try to aim to have the working zone a few cms from full bar in to a comfortable two arm straight (so can be on 60+%) - you will likely have more depower above this (by barring out further)- this is good. Once You are on the water if you find there is not enough grunt then ease off a little of the depower.
(BTW if you feel yourself getting lofted with depower on on the beach think twice - take advice it is medium - advanced rider skill level time - experience with caution - most people once into the sport have more than one kite and possibly more than one board and match these to the conditions - it can be a frustrating time because U just want to get to it)...

When the wind is lighter you will notice depower makes the kite steer more sluggishly and tend to fall off to the edge of the wind window - in a stronger wind the sluggish side becomes way lee noticeable and the tendency to drop to the edge of the window is still there but you are unlikely to register it.

Check out a smaller board for a windy day (say 136 - 139 cms) would be my top tip.

Cheers
AP
switchbkiter
switchbkiter
QLD
12 posts
QLD, 12 posts
9 Nov 2012 8:16am
Thanks for all the advice guys will definitely try and get my hands on a smaller board. I started jumping on my last session. was only trying to do small jumps but accidentally got launched for a few seconds a couple of times. What a buzz!! I find that I get the uncontrollable speed even in the 15 -20 knot range. When I say edge hard I am trying to edge upwind but I find when I am moving fast I can't push the board deep enough into the water to get that real breaking edge I can get when going slower. I can't see myself kiting but wouldn't be suprised if I often have the poo stance. I will try and work on straightening my front leg and pushing down on my back heel.
Plummet
Plummet
4862 posts
4862 posts
9 Nov 2012 9:27am
more weight on your back leg bro! lean way back and edge like a mofo!. let the bar out and park the kite LOW. look and twist shoulder upwind. dropping yoour leading hand off the bar to counter ballance and charge up wind also helps.

Theres no way your overpowered in the 15-20 knot range on a 12m. so if you have that overpowered feeling in that wind its technique.

The key issue for upwind for me when i was learning was more weight on the back leg. As soon as i weighted it more ... booya upwind easy peasy.
kitcho207
kitcho207
NSW
865 posts
NSW, 865 posts
9 Nov 2012 1:27pm
With the kite low, try leaning back and pushing your hips forwards towards the bar. This will give you heaps of edging power and will be much easier on your legs. Also turn your shoulders around to face the way your going. May mean letting your waist harness slide around a bit (unless you have a seat harness)

Kitch
Dl33ta
Dl33ta
TAS
463 posts
TAS, 463 posts
9 Nov 2012 8:49pm
Beware the poo stance, I must have been doing it trying to slow down today. Needless to say my balls hit the deck when I was going full speed on my 11meter. I'm sure if you were looking at it side on you would have seen smoke emanating from the touch down. Had a little sit down in the water for a few minutes sobbing silently..
Plummet
Plummet
4862 posts
4862 posts
9 Nov 2012 6:45pm
another though for upwind and speed control is edging hard upwind before you go too fast. once you let the speed build too much you loose edging control. So... in powered situation crank that upwind angle real hard straight away. yourl choke the speed and churn upwind. Note if you do this underpowered your just loose al speed and stink.
KiteBilly
KiteBilly
VIC
90 posts
VIC, 90 posts
9 Nov 2012 11:01pm
Hey mate.....it might be the kite, what year is it?

Could be the line lengths are wrong, if the kite wont sit directly above you with the bar out and settle to a point where you feel comfortable then the two front power lines maybe stretched, meaning when you are on the water and sheet the bar out to slow down the kite is still wanting to accelerate.

You can depower the kite to help the situation with the red and black toggles....
switchbkiter
switchbkiter
QLD
12 posts
QLD, 12 posts
10 Nov 2012 10:29am
Thanks for the info I am on an 09 kite and rarely use the red and black toggles as I don't notice any difference in depower all I notice is the sweet spot moves. I checked my line lengths when I first started kiting but haven't checked them since so could have stretched didn't even think of that. Now all I need is a weekend with wind to put the theory into practice.
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