Help to get an adequate gear for a begineer!

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Zamet
Zamet
VIC
6 posts
VIC, 6 posts
12 Mar 2012 12:36am

I just finish my lessons. I am almost nearly riding now. The instructor recommended me to get a second hand kite and gear and jump into the water.

I check few places and the difference between a 2011 used and a 2012 new is not huge when you have a look overseas. I found a website that sell wetsuits but they also sell kites (wetsuits outlet) Does someone know something about it?

The real question here which of these Kites would you recommend to start with:
NAISH Park 2012 $1450 NEW UK
Cabrinha Switchblade 2012 $1600 NEW UK
North Evo 2011 $1250 2nd AUS

I will appreciate all the suggestions. I hope to get everything this month, I am so excited about it but I need to feel sure about my investment. I don't want to get a wrong Kite. And the thing with the shops in Melbourne and around is they offer to you what they have. Also the prices are high compared with overseas.

The order that I have so far is:
2012 NAISH PARK 12m $1150
2012 NAISH Universal control system $430
2012 Naish HAZE $555
Mystic Firestarter Harness $100

This order posted to Australia will cost me $2.300 AUD is the best deal that I found. Is it a good deal? Is this a good gear to start with?
Volantin
Volantin
27 posts
27 posts
11 Mar 2012 9:58pm
I bought all my gear locally and I am very happy with it.
The Mystic harness you mentioned is one of those items and it is very comfortable and stable. i highly recommend it.
As for kites, consider how easy is it to relaunch and if there are issues with it, how is the after sales service going to deal with it - ie locally or back to supplier which could take too long.
Other than that i am very new to the sport so cannot comment further.
All the best.
cauncy
cauncy
WA
8407 posts
WA, 8407 posts
11 Mar 2012 10:39pm
Zamet try surf n sail at geraldton he's got some great deals on naish kites
Plummet
Plummet
4862 posts
4862 posts
12 Mar 2012 3:37am
how much do you weigh? what winds will you be flying in.

my recommendation is to buy cheaper gear to start with. you trash your first kite. you might aswell trash a cheap second hand one.

tho too cheap and it will already be trashed.
BurkeyBoy
BurkeyBoy
QLD
549 posts
QLD, 549 posts
12 Mar 2012 6:32am
Plummet said...

how much do you weigh? what winds will you be flying in.

my recommendation is to buy cheaper gear to start with. you trash your first kite. you might aswell trash a cheap second hand one.

tho too cheap and it will already be trashed.


What he said.
pomE
pomE
NSW
164 posts
NSW, 164 posts
12 Mar 2012 10:00am
Erm, yeah what they said

I could do you a kite and harness package for around $1000. 12m 2010 Naish Cult with brand new control bar & lines, and almost new ION Apex waist harness (presuming it fits you of course). PM me for more details or see the Buy n Sell section.
Zamet
Zamet
VIC
6 posts
VIC, 6 posts
12 Mar 2012 4:55pm
Plummet said...

how much do you weigh? what winds will you be flying in.

my recommendation is to buy cheaper gear to start with. you trash your first kite. you might aswell trash a cheap second hand one.

tho too cheap and it will already be trashed.


I am 72 Kgs and I am in St Kilda, Melbourne. I am not really sure about the winds over here but mostly all the shops suggest 12m Kites.

Thks. I understand the point that could be better to get used equipment but how can I know if is it working properly? How could I tested if I am still learning?
juicerider
juicerider
WA
790 posts
WA, 790 posts
12 Mar 2012 2:57pm
Hi Zamet
IBTL
Mate Im not sure your conversion rate is right.
Recon the gear you mentioned would be excellent though. If you are after cheep Naish Gear most Naish dealers in Oz can get hold of the 2011 Gear at very discounted prices too. If you purchase the lot together im sure you could get a great bargain here in OZ.
Plummet
Plummet
4862 posts
4862 posts
12 Mar 2012 3:59pm
I recon you should be looking at a 10m as a 1 kite quiver. 10 will do you 15-25. thats the sweet spot. Then later on look at getting a bigger or smaller kite depending on your locations wind
TurtleHunter
TurtleHunter
WA
1675 posts
WA, 1675 posts
12 Mar 2012 5:40pm
I think your on the right track. Forget about the second hand gear. The way I see it any second hand kite will more than likely be at least half worn out yet are almost as much as the last season new kites. When learning your time on the water will be critical to you enjoying and mastering the sport, don't waste those opportunities with repairs. Yes, some damage their kites when learning by crashing it on the beach but at least a new kite can be repaired as good as new unlike a kite with worn fabric. As for crashing the kite in the water most advanced riders do it more than beginners.
TurtleHunter
TurtleHunter
WA
1675 posts
WA, 1675 posts
12 Mar 2012 6:02pm
juicerider said...

Hi Zamet
IBTL
Mate Im not sure your conversion rate is right.
Recon the gear you mentioned would be excellent though. If you are after cheep Naish Gear most Naish dealers in Oz can get hold of the 2011 Gear at very discounted prices too. If you purchase the lot together im sure you could get a great bargain here in OZ.



Yeah I agree as that does seem cheap for 2012 gear also don't forget import duty and GST on that.
Get your local shop to see what run out gear they can get. For Naish you can get boards for $500 and 2011 kites for under $1500. Or even new 2008 kites for under $1000. The 2011 North Evo (complete?) in Australia looks to be a good price too.
There are heaps of new runout kites around (airush 2011 12m one $1200 complete or 2010 varial for $1000)you just need to look.
cauncy
cauncy
WA
8407 posts
WA, 8407 posts
12 Mar 2012 9:34pm
turtle aussie shops are up against it to compete with europe, even more so the uk ,if the uk retailer ships to us you dont pay the vat which is 20% plus if its under 1000$ you dont pay gst at this end or import duty, mate im all for keeping it local but i got quotes over $ 2000 cheaper from the uk for my 2012 quiv of ozones ,so this leads to me thinking why do we pay so much for our gear here,is it the govt taxes ? or your supplier stitching you ? its not freight as my shipping quote was $60 5 days tracked insured service, ive a mate that owns a kite shop and i can get gear cheaper than what he can, its a tough one for you as retailers and the age of shopping online,plus i think this is why we dont see as many youngsters getting into the sport due to the cost, ive been spending time with some lads teaching them on my kites as they cant afford a decent set up and i dont want them buying some $100 dollar death trap, its a tough one
TurtleHunter
TurtleHunter
WA
1675 posts
WA, 1675 posts
13 Mar 2012 10:42am
All true cauncy I have seen the same particularly with cheap boards overseas. But Zamet is spending over $1000 so will get GST and stamp duty added. As for getting current ozones that much cheaper thats the first I have heard with them. What I am saying though is Australian retailers and importers are left with a huge amount of the previous season gear that you can save heaps on and still get new gear without the hassle of second hand wear.
KIT33R
KIT33R
NSW
1716 posts
NSW, 1716 posts
13 Mar 2012 2:12pm
Support your local kite shop and get to know them. You will need them one day. This time of year there are plenty of specials on, new and used. If it's faulty all it takes is a quick trip back to the shop. Buy from a dealer elsewhere and it's a far bigger job to get things rigth.
Zamet
Zamet
VIC
6 posts
VIC, 6 posts
13 Mar 2012 10:06pm
Thanks for the info. I didn't know about the stamp duty and the GST when the amount is over $1000. I thought I would save about 20% in taxes.

The thing with the shops around here is that they offer what they have in stock and they all have different brands. From my point of view they are quite expensive comparing with Geelong and other Australian retailers. Also, they tell me different stuff about kites and they promote their stuff. So how can I know which one could be the best option for me? At this stage I am very tented to get the Naish Park Kite with a Naish Haze board.

What do you think about:
1.Slingshot RPM & Misfit
2.Ozone Catalyst & Tahee
3.CrazyFly brand

Could any of them suit a beginner like me, who just started?
gmd
gmd
WA
97 posts
gmd gmd
WA, 97 posts
13 Mar 2012 10:06pm
KIT33R said...

Support your local kite shop and get to know them. You will need them one day.


I would be really interested in your arguments why I would need a local store and not just do everything online anywhere in the world ??
just curious because I cannot really see a reason of having 7-10 shops with each carrying 2-3 brands and not just a few big online shops where I can get what I want and make a deal for the lot. Not a single retailer here could give me the brand selection I may want to buy ..
regards
gmd


TurtleHunter
TurtleHunter
WA
1675 posts
WA, 1675 posts
14 Mar 2012 12:22am
gmd said...

KIT33R said...

Support your local kite shop and get to know them. You will need them one day.


I would be really interested in your arguments why I would need a local store and not just do everything online anywhere in the world ??
just curious because I cannot really see a reason of having 7-10 shops with each carrying 2-3 brands and not just a few big online shops where I can get what I want and make a deal for the lot. Not a single retailer here could give me the brand selection I may want to buy ..
regards
gmd




without a shop where will you check and try different harness, demo gear, get advise or even learn how to kite. When local problems arise the shop will often be the first to smooth things out. When you have problems with your gear it will also be much easier dealing through the shop and quite often it is the shop who ends up forking out for a warranty.You just need to find a shop thats honest and knowledgeable.
Back to your choices zamet the rpm may not be the easiest for learners but a rally would suit. In my view the catalyst is the easiest kite around and I have never seen a crazy fly kite but I am sure they would do a freeride kite that should be suitable. As for the boards just get a freeride board the right size for you theres no need to get the best pop or latest construction.
KIT33R
KIT33R
NSW
1716 posts
NSW, 1716 posts
14 Mar 2012 10:26am
TurtleHunter said...

gmd said...

KIT33R said...

Support your local kite shop and get to know them. You will need them one day.


I would be really interested in your arguments why I would need a local store and not just do everything online anywhere in the world ??
just curious because I cannot really see a reason of having 7-10 shops with each carrying 2-3 brands and not just a few big online shops where I can get what I want and make a deal for the lot. Not a single retailer here could give me the brand selection I may want to buy ..
regards
gmd




without a shop where will you check and try different harness, demo gear, get advise or even learn how to kite. When local problems arise the shop will often be the first to smooth things out. When you have problems with your gear it will also be much easier dealing through the shop and quite often it is the shop who ends up forking out for a warranty.You just need to find a shop thats honest and knowledgeable.
Back to your choices zamet the rpm may not be the easiest for learners but a rally would suit. In my view the catalyst is the easiest kite around and I have never seen a crazy fly kite but I am sure they would do a freeride kite that should be suitable. As for the boards just get a freeride board the right size for you theres no need to get the best pop or latest construction.



What he said ^

Also, the shop guys also kite and have a lot of knowledge. You'll see them on the beach and exchange ideas. It's all about being part of a community.
NSW, 4382 posts
14 Mar 2012 11:21am
gmd said...

KIT33R said...

Support your local kite shop and get to know them. You will need them one day.


I would be really interested in your arguments why I would need a local store and not just do everything online anywhere in the world ??
just curious because I cannot really see a reason of having 7-10 shops with each carrying 2-3 brands and not just a few big online shops where I can get what I want and make a deal for the lot. Not a single retailer here could give me the brand selection I may want to buy ..
regards
gmd





I can't believe your question is serious?
Anyway, there are lots of great reasons to support local industry whether its buying kites or cameras, or anything.
Supporting your local keeps a lot of your money circulating in Australia, supporting fellow Australians to keep bread on the table.
Local retailers support their local areas, they generally are doing a lot that may not be so visible to maintain access to spots.
Local retailers can fix warranty and repair issues quickly and often on the spot.
Local retailers are often supporting legitimate schools, helping to make the sport safer and with sustainable practices/methods.
Local retailers have chosen the brands they sell, usually because they like them and know how they perform. They should be stocking brands they get good support from.
There are many more reasons, including building relationships locally, new kiters need kite buddies including kite retailer buddies!
If everyone bought everything they possibly could overseas as you seem to be indicating then we would be living in a very different and poorer Australia.
BurkeyBoy
BurkeyBoy
QLD
549 posts
QLD, 549 posts
14 Mar 2012 10:40am
Kitepower Australia said...

gmd said...

KIT33R said...

Support your local kite shop and get to know them. You will need them one day.


I would be really interested in your arguments why I would need a local store and not just do everything online anywhere in the world ??
just curious because I cannot really see a reason of having 7-10 shops with each carrying 2-3 brands and not just a few big online shops where I can get what I want and make a deal for the lot. Not a single retailer here could give me the brand selection I may want to buy ..
regards
gmd





I can't believe your question is serious?
Anyway, there are lots of great reasons to support local industry whether its buying kites or cameras, or anything.
Supporting your local keeps a lot of your money circulating in Australia, supporting fellow Australians to keep bread on the table.
Local retailers support their local areas, they generally are doing a lot that may not be so visible to maintain access to spots.
Local retailers can fix warranty and repair issues quickly and often on the spot.
Local retailers are often supporting legitimate schools, helping to make the sport safer and with sustainable practices/methods.
Local retailers have chosen the brands they sell, usually because they like them and know how they perform. They should be stocking brands they get good support from.
There are many more reasons, including building relationships locally, new kiters need kite buddies including kite retailer buddies!
If everyone bought everything they possibly could overseas as you seem to be indicating then we would be living in a very different and poorer Australia.


Absolutely. We should use locals whenever possible. I don't mind paying a bit more to keep my money in the local area, never mind the country. I will admit to occasionally buying something overseas, but that's when I don't really have a choice or the price difference is too great.
What's wrong with only having a few brands to choose from? We just expect everything now. We have become lazy and self-obsessed and seem to have a huge "entitlement mentality".
cauncy
cauncy
WA
8407 posts
WA, 8407 posts
14 Mar 2012 10:37pm
Burkeyboy kitepower totally understand what you saying ,but it doesn't answer my previous question why are we paying a lot mote for our gear,here is one for you I've just looked up a starter package , f1 package 9mtr volt complete f1 board and choice of standard harness 839 pounds ,xrates currency 1239 au dollars, had a look here in oz 1999 au dollars for the same kit,in my view that's a lot of coin extra ,
Peterdj
Peterdj
VIC
139 posts
VIC, 139 posts
15 Mar 2012 9:55am
The shops can only sell to what they have been asked to set the prices at to a certain extent.
Even though alot of really good brands come out of indonesia and cost about 500 US (some a bit over , some a bit under) it's not the shops that are making the killing, although they do get a decent markup they still need to survive.

If shop sells to low and goes for high volume the distributor will be on the line complaining they are under cutting the other shops, so will the other shops.

Lets say a shop buys for 800, they decide , hell we can sell for 950 and move ten of these a week instead of two ,make 150 on each and it will all be good. As soon as the word gets around they will be told to stop in no uncertain terms.

Plus all the import duties, distributor profits etc etc. Its a tangled web.

The shop can only do what it can do and if thats offering after sales service then that makes up for alot of the price differences.

But in the end you have to do what suits you.
gmd
gmd
WA
97 posts
gmd gmd
WA, 97 posts
15 Mar 2012 12:04pm
Kitepower Australia said...

I can't believe your question is serious?


I can't believe your answer is serious !



Anyway, there are lots of great reasons to support local industry whether its buying kites or cameras, or anything.


I have to see one reason here ... If there would be a local industry I would happily support them .. I do not consider retail an industry ... If you look at cameras or anything as you call it you finance primarily obscene rents in shopping centers making profits for foreign investment. There is lack of competitive trading space in Australia which would allow the retailer to be more flexible with pricing.
If there would be a decent product I need or want made in Australia I would support it, but there is not !


Supporting your local keeps a lot of your money circulating in Australia, supporting fellow Australians to keep bread on the table.

Not correct either, otherwise we would not have so much foreign ownership in business. The Australian dollar I spend overseas by exchange comes back because the only thing people want to buy in Australia is dirt with some resource content.
Ok may be a few life sheep and some wheat. And even if we have a lot of export our import is higher and it does not matter if I spend the money here and finance a greedy importer or if I spend it in a foreign country at a much lower cost .. the result is no different ..


Local retailers support their local areas, they generally are doing a lot that may not be so visible to maintain access to spots.

You think ? I have to see that .. financial interest is not really what sways councils and especially not from a sector with so little financial power .. council members are interested in votes and public perception .. not a few pleas from a little fish.


Local retailers can fix warranty and repair issues quickly and often on the spot.

I have to see that first hand yet .. Several occasions where I have just seen the opposite


Local retailers are often supporting legitimate schools, helping to make the sport safer and with sustainable practices/methods.

9 out of 10 schools in Perth I rather not see teaching .. they are overpriced, unconsidered mobs pricing schooling out of the market .. over east you may be right with a 5 hour course at 395. here you pay 300 for one lesson. Greed I do not support.


Local retailers have chosen the brands they sell, usually because they like them and know how they perform. They should be stocking brands they get good support from.

In most cases retailers have the brands they can get not the other way around ..
Companies try to not have too many retailers in one area to maintain price levels at RRP. To force a retailer to sell at RRP is illegal, but practices exist to make sure they do. Another reason why I do not buy local anymore ..
If you sell more than 2 brands you are more likely to be objective. Retailers push their own brands and also through the schools they run or support. This is not information you want as a consumer ..
You want selection and more objectivity.. with 2 brands at hand that is not the case .. I have never been told that a board next door may suit me better than the own offer.. I have only been offered alternatives within the shop ... not what I called good information .. I'd rather talk to buddies or people at the local beach than retailers.


There are many more reasons, including building relationships locally, new kiters need kite buddies including kite retailer buddies!

There are other ways to make buddies .. I don't want a buddy associated with a retailer pushing his gear all the time ..


If everyone bought everything they possibly could overseas as you seem to be indicating then we would be living in a very different and poorer Australia.

Well .. I don't think so .. It may put some pressure on governments and people to up their game and become a bit smarter and more inventive and not as complacent as they are because we still get enough resource dollars ..

On the other hand .. just to conclude this .. there are many other reasons why I would buy overseas where you have more consumer protection than in Australia.
Lemon laws, right of return with change of mind not just exchange for fault, longer warranty periods, better service ... I have all experienced this ... and a few shipping costs did not make up for the money saved over time .. The parts for my American truck are cheaper and land quicker on my door step than anything from Australia because the local shop probably does not stock even for the local brands.
2 service shipments and adjustments for a 12K$ camera have not even made a dent in the saving on the purchase price ..

There are many reasons why the situation is the way it is, but buying local is not going to improve anything as long as you can start a business with $2 shares, without qualification and make a runner with people's down payments when it gets too hard ..
Seen that a lot, fortunately not from own experience ..

I have found a few businesses over the years I would call honest, useful and worth supporting but they were in the minority.

The internet will change all this anyway ... Mayer's half yearly profit is down 17% and a lot of smaller retailers can't afford the rents anymore.

We will have product show rooms in the future, sponsored by manufacturers and importers where you can touch the goods, but you will buy online because local stock becomes too expensive, service is centralised anyway (Sony does that since a long long time) and the channel does not have so much old stock sticking around.

Different marketing strategies are tested in the kite world (for example: Ocean Rodeo, Switch) to sell direct and promote through team riders. And the prices are half. You can buy 2 instead of one kite .. and you may get an answer from the manufacturer instead of waiting for a retailer via his importer get into gear.

All the above is not theory for me, I speak from experience and telling me to support the local shop in order to be a "good" Australian makes me smile ...
By the way I am Australian and I am all for maintaining our freedom and quality of live .. but at the moment it looks like it is more important to make people stop eating Hamburgers than to buy from local retailers.

This is not meant as an attack on anyone .. and I do not aim to convince anybody ... it is just my opinion and observation ..
I like discussing any subject constructively .. only this will improve anything
Satisfaction is the end of progress.

regards
gmd



GJOchoa
GJOchoa
SA
108 posts
SA, 108 posts
15 Mar 2012 4:51pm
@gmd: awesome constructive discussion!!!! I love it... I understand your arguments and take them as valid points... I personally browse the web thoroughly before buying anything and the majority of the time I'm able to find good prices from retailers. I guess I've been lucky so far... I support online shopping 100%, however, if the price gap is not excessive I always go for the local retailer...
You come across as a knowledgeable person. Could I ask your opinion about "local" webpages with excessive prices? For instance, I cannot understand how can I get better prices from Rip Curl or Quiksilver American webpage than from the Australian webpages...
Zamet
Zamet
VIC
6 posts
VIC, 6 posts
20 Mar 2012 6:13pm
Thanks for all the info! i will do my research and I will let you know what I decide!

Cheers!!!
pomE
pomE
NSW
164 posts
NSW, 164 posts
20 Mar 2012 9:39pm
Yeah, I've never understood the whole "support your local retailer", argument. I saw similar arguments in relation to cycling gear when I used to race a lot.

To me, it's like saying (kind of), support your local car dealership franchise by buying a new car from them, once every 2-3 years, and selling it back to them when you're done rather than getting more $$$ for it privately.

Don't know about you lot, but I have little love for my "local" car dealership (or any), and they're pretty "retail", by nature. I'll have a car delivered on the back of a low-loader from WA if it means I save a few $k

DaFinchy
DaFinchy
VIC
22 posts
VIC, 22 posts
21 Mar 2012 12:58am
If your only 75kgs and kite @ Kilda = 10m. (Kilda is 18-25 knots)

If your a newb = dont buy a new kite. You will only shed more tears when you smash it

Strongly advise your first kite season on a second hand kite. You can get some greats kites in the buy and sell section for $700 or so, 1 year old and most looked after very well. With the spare $700 bucks you saved buy a second kite and you can get more days on the water and become a better kiter even quicker.




Beersy
Beersy
TAS
753 posts
TAS, 753 posts
21 Mar 2012 8:27am
Is a begineer a new pirate?
KIT33R
KIT33R
NSW
1716 posts
NSW, 1716 posts
21 Mar 2012 9:09am
I can't believe the negativity by some people in this thread particularly by people with only a few posts under their belts.

Go and buy your gear off the guy on the beach or from some southeast asian website. It's a free country. But once you have been in this sport for a few years you will realise we are a community not just a random bunch of people who happen to fly kites.

A few years ago we held a benefit night for a kiting friend who had a serious accident kiting. With the help of kiters, including kite ship owners, we raised a significant sum of money to help with his rehabilitation. We help each other.
Dave Whettingsteel
Dave Whettingsteel
WA
1397 posts
WA, 1397 posts
21 Mar 2012 8:59pm
I bought from one of the shops in Gero and am so glad I did. Little more expensive but the benefits are huge. As a beginner I think it has been of great value.
- after a big tangle mess situation , took it all back and shop checked it was all setup correctly and no damage. No charge
- always there to go and ask for advice on locations, problems I am having
- at the beach, someone to discuss, launch, whatever I need I am comfortable to approach
- if a warrant situation happens, very clear accountability
- keen to look after me to gain future business

Maybe when you are an experienced kilter, you become more of a product buyer with price being a higher priority, but I think as a newbie the benefits of buying local are quite strong.

Dave
TurtleHunter
TurtleHunter
WA
1675 posts
WA, 1675 posts
21 Mar 2012 9:14pm
hey gmd lots of points there and may be relevant to some but I will pull you up on a couple though.
I think you came into the shop in Exmouth and after chatting and explaining the local spots you bought a few valves as you were stuck. Pretty handy eh plus I think I also recommended you buy some glue from the hardware rather than what I had in stock. Also you list sandy bay as one of your favourite spots well 3 years ago that spot was almost closed to kiters due to traveling kiters taking over the beach and being a danger to the general public but I lobbied DEC and started a local group to show them we could co exist with the public there. Part of the outcome was that we would use the shop to inform kiters of the guidelines. Graveyards is another place that was under pressure and I have represented everyone to keep the spot open.
Do what you want but don't believe you would be better off without shops.Those that I deal with all put a huge amount of time into the local kite community.
By the way being so small and isolated I have decided to only stock 2 brands but that way I can give full service to those that buy these brands. I can supply almost all the brands but I would not be able to have complete backup service due to economies of scale.
I do however agree that it sucks that someone can buy a kite from overseas for less than I can get it for.
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