How to Sine Kite

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Gfly
Gfly
165 posts
165 posts
22 Nov 2014 11:47pm
I was wondering what the correct technique to sine a kite in low wind conditions are.

At the moment I fly the kite down fully sheeted in, which results in very little pull. I fly the kite back up sheeting out and this generates pull but sometimes the kite shoots off to 12 O'Clock quite rapidly.




Gilly3
Gilly3
QLD
800 posts
QLD, 800 posts
23 Nov 2014 9:38am
Light wind flying requires good technique, finesse and skill which comes from experience and lots of practice. Ur on the right track with the method u have mentioned but try not to over think it, it's more about feel through the bar and board. U will also need the correct equipment for light wind kiting.

What size and style kite are u using (LEI or foil)?
What size and style of board do u have?
What wind strength are u attempting to fly in?
How heavy are u?
Flat water, chop or waves?

Each one of these things will affect ur performance....
Gfly
Gfly
165 posts
165 posts
23 Nov 2014 8:54pm
Gilly3 said..
Light wind flying requires good technique, finesse and skill which comes from experience and lots of practice. Ur on the right track with the method u have mentioned but try not to over think it, it's more about feel through the bar and board. U will also need the correct equipment for light wind kiting.

What size and style kite are u using (LEI or foil)?
What size and style of board do u have?
What wind strength are u attempting to fly in?
How heavy are u?
Flat water, chop or waves?

Each one of these things will affect ur performance....


not really light winds, just when its not strong enough to park kite.

When I sine the kite down should I sheet out?
Gilly3
Gilly3
QLD
800 posts
QLD, 800 posts
24 Nov 2014 6:44am
Nah, you had it right in ur first post......

It needs to be a steady flowing motion, sheet in to far and the kite will choke and even backstall in really light winds.
Like I said, don't over think it. When you take off from the beach have the bar pulled in about half way (light winds only) and sine the kite up and down in a steady flowing motion to generate power. Bear off slightly downwind if u have to, to keep yourself moving and then start edging harder upwind sheeting in and out as required.

As stated before, it's all about feel through the bar and the board.
bigtone667
bigtone667
NSW
1559 posts
NSW, 1559 posts
24 Nov 2014 3:30pm
Gfly said..

Gilly3 said..
Light wind flying requires good technique, finesse and skill which comes from experience and lots of practice. Ur on the right track with the method u have mentioned but try not to over think it, it's more about feel through the bar and board. U will also need the correct equipment for light wind kiting.

What size and style kite are u using (LEI or foil)?
What size and style of board do u have?
What wind strength are u attempting to fly in?
How heavy are u?
Flat water, chop or waves?

Each one of these things will affect ur performance....



not really light winds, just when its not strong enough to park kite.

When I sine the kite down should I sheet out?


I am usually sheeting in gradually on the down stroke and then releasing on the up stroke. (That sounds so wrong... lol).

As Gilly3 stated, don't over think it, just concentrate on maintaining forward energy, speed of the kite through the air and try to avoid forcing the kite to hold you up (you need to maintain pressure against the kite, but avoid the kite keeping you out of the water). I often change my centre of gravity by bending my knees rather than having the kite hold me up.

It's a fine skill to have when the wind dies on a downwinder!!!!
Kamikuza
Kamikuza
QLD
6493 posts
QLD, 6493 posts
24 Nov 2014 7:34pm
Sheet in just enough to milk some power from the kite, but not so much that you slow it down. Your goal is to build apparent wind speed...

You'll find it helpful to trim the kite so that it doesn't back stall when you sheet in fully, and it'll help to keep the kite flying, with speed.
Start on the beach, with the kite at the zenith then sheet right in... trim it until it stops stalling.

(Wait for it...)
Loftywinds
Loftywinds
QLD
2060 posts
QLD, 2060 posts
25 Nov 2014 10:42am
Kamikuza said..
Sheet in just enough to milk some power from the kite, but not so much that you slow it down. Your goal is to build apparent wind speed...

You'll find it helpful to trim the kite so that it doesn't back stall when you sheet in fully, and it'll help to keep the kite flying, with speed.
Start on the beach, with the kite at the zenith then sheet right in... trim it until it stops stalling.

(Wait for it...)


No red thumbs from me. That's a very good explanation Kami.

The true power comes from apparent wind, as you said. And for me, keeping a nice balance between board, front line tension and kite speed. Kite speed is the trick too, which is why sineing is important, but it's a skill to do it right. Light wind riding is definitely for the pros.
KIT33R
KIT33R
NSW
1716 posts
NSW, 1716 posts
27 Nov 2014 5:01pm
This is what works for me since I'll ride in any wind.
It's all about building apparent wind and maintaining board speed.

Step 1. After your waterstart, sine the kite down edging slightly while pulling in on the bar. This will get you moving. Keep the board as flat as possible while still maintaining an edge. Twist you upper body upwind. Not too much heel pressure.

Step 2. Once it's time for the up stroke let the bar out a little while stearing the kite up with the back hand. Flatten the board on the water (you'll go a bit down wind) to maintain speed.

Step 3. Repeat step 1 diving the kite agressively to build speed.

If you can now park the kite, good, otherwise you'll need to do all of this again if you start to slow down.

Use any bit of swell to your advantage. Ride down little faces. Use your knees as shock absorbers. Use the tide to your advantage. If there's a spot where the tide pulls hardest, find it since it can add 2-3 knots against the wind.

A wide tailed board will plain early and give an advantage. Light wind riding makes you think and work hard.

A light (3 strut) kite that is fast through the air is better than a bigger heavier kite that is slow to turn in light wind. A fast kite will build apparent wind much more efficiently than a slow kite.

Lastly, don't drop the kite in the water or you may not have enough wind to relaunch.

Kamikuza
Kamikuza
QLD
6493 posts
QLD, 6493 posts
27 Nov 2014 11:04pm
KIT33R said..

A light (3 strut) kite that is fast through the air is better than a bigger heavier kite that is slow to turn in light wind. A fast kite will build apparent wind much more efficiently than a slow kite.


Hmm...

I've flown light, fast kites of any number of struts that whizz around the sky doing sweet F.A. They turn on a dime and are super responsive but gutless.
Kites that are fast across the window make a little more power but what you really want are kites that make power on apparent wind: these are usually higher aspect ratio kites like Crossbows, Edges, Drafts... race kites. Well, until you want to loop them or do other interesting stuff.

Some gear and conditions require high frequency sines (fast turns, long strokes from the water to the zenith) and some only need gentle sines.

Key point - keep the kite flying and don't choke it.
KIT33R
KIT33R
NSW
1716 posts
NSW, 1716 posts
28 Nov 2014 4:08pm
Kamikuza said..

KIT33R said..

A light (3 strut) kite that is fast through the air is better than a bigger heavier kite that is slow to turn in light wind. A fast kite will build apparent wind much more efficiently than a slow kite.



Hmm...

I've flown light, fast kites of any number of struts that whizz around the sky doing sweet F.A. They turn on a dime and are super responsive but gutless.
Kites that are fast across the window make a little more power but what you really want are kites that make power on apparent wind: these are usually higher aspect ratio kites like Crossbows, Edges, Drafts... race kites. Well, until you want to loop them or do other interesting stuff.

Some gear and conditions require high frequency sines (fast turns, long strokes from the water to the zenith) and some only need gentle sines.

Key point - keep the kite flying and don't choke it.


Totally agree, but from my limited experience I found that my 10m Ozone Reo will get me going and having fun when a 12m freestyle kite will perform like a wet slug.
Kamikuza
Kamikuza
QLD
6493 posts
QLD, 6493 posts
28 Nov 2014 7:20pm
Funny, 10m Reo was the kite I was thinking of when I wrote that bit about whizz and sweet F.A.
Gilly3
Gilly3
QLD
800 posts
QLD, 800 posts
28 Nov 2014 7:32pm
Kamikuza said..

Kites that are fast across the window make a little more power but what you really want are kites that make power on apparent wind: these are usually higher aspect ratio kites like Crossbows, Edges, Drafts... race kites. Well, until you want to loop them or do other interesting stuff.


I hear and read this a lot Kami, but I can tell you I loop the sh!t out of my 11m Edge and have no issues with it whatsoever. Yes it prolly doesn't loop as well as a 'C' kite, but I guess it's just what you get used to. I don't unhook either, so the Edge really suits my style of riding......the thing cuts upwind like a mofo, obviously why they are a weapon of choice for a lot of racers.
Kamikuza
Kamikuza
QLD
6493 posts
QLD, 6493 posts
29 Nov 2014 1:45am
Gilly3 said..

Kamikuza said..

Kites that are fast across the window make a little more power but what you really want are kites that make power on apparent wind: these are usually higher aspect ratio kites like Crossbows, Edges, Drafts... race kites. Well, until you want to loop them or do other interesting stuff.



I hear and read this a lot Kami, but I can tell you I loop the sh!t out of my 11m Edge and have no issues with it whatsoever. Yes it prolly doesn't loop as well as a 'C' kite, but I guess it's just what you get used to. I don't unhook either, so the Edge really suits my style of riding......the thing cuts upwind like a mofo, obviously why they are a weapon of choice for a lot of racers.


I know Eddie Lansink can loop the **** out of Edge 7m and anything less than 12 should loop ok-ish... but seems to require a lot of commitment. There are easier kites to do it on, and I don't get out on less than 13m that often :( so that size issue was in my mind. Plus the general light wind nature of this thread
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