Kite Pressure and learning, an observation.

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dave......
dave......
WA
2119 posts
WA, 2119 posts
27 Feb 2012 5:21pm
I went down to a lace where a lot of people have done the right thing, got lessons and have maasive trouble relainching.

Struts and leading edges are like a football, soccerball. They have a reinforced outer skin and a weak bladder underneath. A kite pump can only go to about 11psi before you will snap the handles off. Most guys after lessons arent pumping their kites up enough.

All kite brands when doing R&D use electric pumps and pump kites up to 9.5psi. Most learners/intermediates are putting in around 7psi.

When you put your kite in the water a lot, the air inside gets cooler, and as Boyle's law states the pressure reduces. If your canopy is folding in half at any time during relaunch, theres not enough pressure and it push the leading edge down into the water, and it gives you a real jerky feel until it goes to the wind window, then it flaps. and makes relaunchng harder.

Pump it up till it pings when you flick the LE. If your unsure, fold tips together, there should be resistance to snap back into the designed shape. If the canopy is a jellyfish, you kitesurf like a jellyfish, youll spend most of the time in the water, and get washed up on the beach.
dave......
dave......
WA
2119 posts
WA, 2119 posts
27 Feb 2012 5:49pm
All modern kites use reinforced fabric in the leading edge and struts, compared to the canopy, dont be afraid to pump it up.
If your trying to relaunch wth an underinflated kite, it has trouble relaunching as the leading edge distorts and pulls down into the water where the most resistance is.....
koma
koma
VIC
760 posts
VIC, 760 posts
28 Feb 2012 1:10pm
I've found that your best bet is to show someone with an under inflated kite that the leading edge is not a rigid frame. If it's easy to fold, it's not inflated.

The flick it till it pings technique appears to cause more confusion than clarity amongst the inexperienced.
terminal
terminal
1421 posts
1421 posts
29 Feb 2012 2:37am
The bigger the diameter of the tube, the less pressure it should need.

It depends on how strong you are, but I find a good test to be trying to squeeze the tube with your fingers and thumb. Once I'm getting to the pressure where I am close to not being able to squeeze into the surface seems to be about right for a leading edge. Before one-pumps it used to be that the narrower struts were pumped to a higher pressure than the LE.
Nicko82
Nicko82
WA
54 posts
WA, 54 posts
3 Mar 2012 3:50pm
This makes a load of sense. When I was in my 3rd lesson the kite I used was soft and I said this to the instructor. I thought that it was too soft but he just seemed to want to push on with it anyways. I eventually got rolled in the chop at woodies and the kite was soft and flattened out. Then the instructor said we should go pump up again. I didn't want to sound demeaning but I was thinking I told you so. Half the time I couldn't even hear him anyways.
KiteBud
KiteBud
WA
1615 posts
WA, 1615 posts
3 Mar 2012 8:51pm
Nicko82 said...

This makes a load of sense. When I was in my 3rd lesson the kite I used was soft and I said this to the instructor. I thought that it was too soft but he just seemed to want to push on with it anyways. I eventually got rolled in the chop at woodies and the kite was soft and flattened out. Then the instructor said we should go pump up again. I didn't want to sound demeaning but I was thinking I told you so. Half the time I couldn't even hear him anyways.


Sounds like you are getting some pretty sub-par lessons...
NSW, 4382 posts
4 Mar 2012 9:57am
dave...... said...

I went down to a lace where a lot of people have done the right thing, got lessons and have maasive trouble relainching.

Struts and leading edges are like a football, soccerball. They have a reinforced outer skin and a weak bladder underneath. A kite pump can only go to about 11psi before you will snap the handles off. Most guys after lessons arent pumping their kites up enough.

All kite brands when doing R&D use electric pumps and pump kites up to 9.5psi. Most learners/intermediates are putting in around 7psi.

When you put your kite in the water a lot, the air inside gets cooler, and as Boyle's law states the pressure reduces. If your canopy is folding in half at any time during relaunch, theres not enough pressure and it push the leading edge down into the water, and it gives you a real jerky feel until it goes to the wind window, then it flaps. and makes relaunchng harder.

Pump it up till it pings when you flick the LE. If your unsure, fold tips together, there should be resistance to snap back into the designed shape. If the canopy is a jellyfish, you kitesurf like a jellyfish, youll spend most of the time in the water, and get washed up on the beach.




All good info Dave.....
The brands I have observed testing kites, never used electric pumps, just the plain old hand pumps we all use.
A hand pump will get a kite to at least 8PSI easily, without breaking it, which is plenty for any kite on the market.
Its more about the resistance to folding, than the ping. The ping begins at around 6PSI and up, its hard for beginners to understand which tone of ping is correct.
Resistance to folding the LE is simpler to show and understand, and my advice is pump till you feel like the pump is getting very hard to push down or pull up.
Nicko82
Nicko82
WA
54 posts
WA, 54 posts
4 Mar 2012 11:05am
cbulota said...

Nicko82 said...

This makes a load of sense. When I was in my 3rd lesson the kite I used was soft and I said this to the instructor. I thought that it was too soft but he just seemed to want to push on with it anyways. I eventually got rolled in the chop at woodies and the kite was soft and flattened out. Then the instructor said we should go pump up again. I didn't want to sound demeaning but I was thinking I told you so. Half the time I couldn't even hear him anyways.


Sounds like you are getting some pretty sub-par lessons...


Did them with Elemental
dave......
dave......
WA
2119 posts
WA, 2119 posts
4 Mar 2012 11:42pm
Resistance to folding the LE is simpler to show and understand, and my advice is pump till you feel like the pump is getting very hard to push down or pull up.



Great advice, Very hard, keeping it simple..... If it folds in the water and aint a foil, pump it up.
giBiLatoR
giBiLatoR
QLD
147 posts
QLD, 147 posts
5 Mar 2012 6:26am
Another newb chirpin in here but another piece of advice I have received is that; if you are afraid of over inflating your kite then leave the strapping off the inflation valve, this will mean that when you hit the water with enough force then the kites leading edge will deflate instead of a much worse alternative. Obviously locking off the valves in your struts is essential here.

I tried under inflating my new kite yesterday (new black epic screamer 10 =] ) as I thought the kite being black would make a difference and I am learning backroll/doubles w/ kiteloop thinking it would hit the water a lot, it did! BUT under inflating it was by far the worst thing I could have done as these need to be pumped HARD, and all I achieved was a rediculously jelly fishing kite in the gusty conditions. Lesson learnt.
zzzzz
zzzzz
WA
57 posts
WA, 57 posts
8 Mar 2012 4:21pm
Landed and launched many kites for others recently
Most were somewhat under inflated
Interesting observation
Addikt
Addikt
WA
553 posts
WA, 553 posts
8 Mar 2012 10:05pm
Still think too many people over inflate......
dave......
dave......
WA
2119 posts
WA, 2119 posts
10 Mar 2012 3:04pm
7 psi in cold water means 5psi when youre kite is in the water alot, especially in the bigger sizes. Id rather overinflate a kite a bit when teaching someone to learn, than have a jelly fish.

If there are small waves, walk out further and use the waves/chop to assist you in bringing the kite to the wind window, dont work against them.

Another observation, when launching, the bar is out, not in. Grab the line on the windward side of your wind window and help it pivot...
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