Setting up a bar

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Hop
Hop
QLD
91 posts
Hop Hop
QLD, 91 posts
31 May 2011 9:13am
I am in the process of setting up a bar and wondered how the tinkerers establish the length of the leader line (or whatever its called) between the chicken loop and the trim strap.
One method I've read is to have your four lines equal length when the chicken loop is hard against the bar with the trim strap in the half way position. Is this correct?
Does this vary greatly from kite to kite (obviously bandits are different)?
Should I allow a touch more length for oversheeting for higher wind jumping?
This bar is going to be a spare and will mainly be used on a 2009 7m Griffin if that makes any difference.
toddws
toddws
WA
469 posts
WA, 469 posts
31 May 2011 7:25am
Dependent on kite but as a rule:-
For a four line, equal length bar, set full power with lines at equal length about 1" (2.5cm)from the chicken loop this will give a tiny amount of back stall for jumps.
This will help ensure the kite doesn't over fly you (go over your head in a jump).
Any doubts pm griffinkites
www.seabreeze.com.au/Members/Profile/Details.aspx?member=GriffinKites
and I'm sure he'll give you the lowdown
Hop
Hop
QLD
91 posts
Hop Hop
QLD, 91 posts
31 May 2011 12:05pm
Thanks Toddws. I will Pm Griffinkites. However it was a question for my general interest as well as adjusting the leader line seems a good way to deal with stretched lines as well (yeah I know, don't be a tightarse and buy new lines).
This leaves the full extent of the trim strap for it's intended purpose. Are you sure an inch is enough, or is that once more reliant on the style of kite. Thanks again.
radman4
radman4
678 posts
678 posts
31 May 2011 10:08am
Above sounds about right but i would go for 2 inches from the bar 50mm,when your set and flying the kite try it in about 10-12 knots,pull hard in with the kite at the zenith and see how quickly the kite stalls if stalls straight away go a bit shorter but if it takes a while to stall then sweet,if it dosent stall at all you could go a bit longer.
Hop
Hop
QLD
91 posts
Hop Hop
QLD, 91 posts
31 May 2011 1:57pm
Thanks Radman4. I am guessing that the 10-12knts relates to being just under the bottom wind range for of the particular kite. For example looking at a 7m I should do this test in say 15-16knots? If it was my 10.5m I would then do it in 10-12knts. Or is the 10-12knts used because of how your kite can drift when you move directly down wind with the kite (say jibing on a wave) thus compensating for the lesser load on the kite?
radman4
radman4
678 posts
678 posts
31 May 2011 1:08pm
I usually set all my bars up the same in 10-12 knots no matter what size kite ,usually its easier to stall the kite in this wind so you get a better setup,kites tend to stall easier when loaded at the bottom of the window so if you set it to stall in stronger wind at the zenith then it will fly like crap when loaded up at the bottom of the powerzone, but if you set it to just stall in light wind then its normally way harder to stall out wide open in its windrange.
Hop
Hop
QLD
91 posts
Hop Hop
QLD, 91 posts
31 May 2011 5:22pm
Makes sense radman4. Thanks for clarifying. Also a big thanks to the people at Griffin who have returned my pm and advised that the lines for my 7m griffin should be equal when the bar is fully powered. I suppose given the stretch in the lines as long as I can simulate hanging my weight from the lines I could get the perfect adjustment otherwise I should allow a little extra. Anyway enough information to get pretty close. I think I will leave enough additional length dangling on the leader line to allow for future adjustment if necessary. Thanks guys.
terminal
terminal
1421 posts
1421 posts
2 Jun 2011 4:37pm
You can adjust for line stretch if you fit the right set of pigtails.

Hop
Hop
QLD
91 posts
Hop Hop
QLD, 91 posts
3 Jun 2011 1:14pm
Thanks terminal. Good information, well articulated. Funny after all this time I am finally going to pay more attention to the correct tuning of my kite. Had the rebuilt bar set correctly and had a good time on my 7m Griffin yesterday. Thanks for the vid. Hopefully this will also help others.
woodys
woodys
WA
218 posts
WA, 218 posts
5 Jun 2011 12:04am
Not disagreeing with Todd or radman4 here by any means. A bit beyond the bar for centre lines is a good idea once you know what you are doing. BUT - and its a big BUT - for beginners the VID & Griffin advice is best. Tuning to same length on full power at the bar will create less kite control problems for those at the steep end of the learning curve.
When and if you want, and can use, the advantage of some over-sheeting then yep shorten your centre lines for sure.

Small length variations are simplest fixed by allowing for the known irregularity by using the knot options at the kite end pig-tails (I know its cheating and not fool proof but its easy )
radman4
radman4
678 posts
678 posts
5 Jun 2011 5:56am
woodys said...

Not disagreeing with Todd or radman4 here by any means. A bit beyond the bar for centre lines is a good idea once you know what you are doing. BUT - and its a big BUT - for beginners the VID & Griffin advice is best. Tuning to same length on full power at the bar will create less kite control problems for those at the steep end of the learning curve.
When and if you want, and can use, the advantage of some over-sheeting then yep shorten your centre lines for sure.

Small length variations are simplest fixed by allowing for the known irregularity by using the knot options at the kite end pig-tails (I know its cheating and not fool proof but its easy )


Agreed for a newbie setup your best to setup on the slightly depowered side or youll pull in and stall more often, i like to tune the bar to the kite though as you cant always go with the all lines equal length theory as sometimes youll have a variation in bridal to backline length.
On all my bars i have a leader on the steering lines that is about 200mm long with equal multiple knots,this allows quick adjustment and its great for quick adjustment for different wind strenth,also allows me to use the same bar on many different brands of kite.
woodys
woodys
WA
218 posts
WA, 218 posts
6 Jun 2011 5:31am
radman4 said...
i like to tune the bar to the kite though as you cant always go with the all lines equal length theory


Absolutely. Its definitely a 'theory'. Works in most cases but we had a newbie in one day with a new kite he claimed 'wouldnt fly right'. Tested his lines - spot on same length. Tested the kite and found the only way that particular kite would behave was to lengthen one set of lines by a full 100mm !!!
(wont mention the brand)

radman4 said...
On all my bars i have a leader on the steering lines that is about 200mm long with equal multiple knots,this allows quick adjustment and its great for quick adjustment for different wind strenth,also allows me to use the same bar on many different brands of kite.


Nice work - I like it.
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