Hi guys,
I am almost going now with my water starts but I find it hard to keep going.
I know I have to keep the kite in the powerzone and heel edge, but not too much to depower the kite, which is what is happening to me a lot. So I start pointing the board to the kite and edge it slightly, but the kite still keeps falling off the powerzone into the window's edge.
Any tips on how to control the bar to control the kite to stay powered?
I've seen the videos, utube, etc, and they all look so easy with the kite slightly being pulled to one side (2 oclock max) and then down through the power zone and the kite just stays there powered.
I tried the same but as I said, the kite keeps falling down even when I try and re-dive it "up" so to speak.
I am tempted to get more lessons on just water starting.

Light winds are always the hardest when your a beginner. Try being more aggressive with your steering and getting more speed while pointing down wind before engaging your edge. In stronger winds or with a bigger kite you'll find its a piece of cake.

There are two aspects to this.

As someone mentioned, the biggest mistake is probably pulling in the bar while the kite is on the way up. You have to pull in on the way down to generate power and push out on the way up to stop it stalling. Generally speaking its really tough if you're not completely comfortable with kiting because you gives you one more thing to worry about, but its a really good skill to learn because you learn a lot about how to recover a kite when it starts falling out the sky. My suggestion is to get the kite out on land in light wind and try keep it in the air. You'll start to see how it reacts when this happens, but being in the water is tougher because there is less resistance against the kite while you are lying in the water and more chance of it falling out the sky.

If the kite won't stay in the air, its probably too light to get going unless you have a really good light wind board. The reason this makes a difference is you can generate apparent wind by getting your board speed up. The faster you go, the faster wind is travelling across the kite so the kite feels like it is flying in stronger wind than it is. This is one of the reason's raceboards do well in light wind. With a normal twin tip, the secret is NOT trying to go too much upwind and trying to build as much board speed as possible, once you have your boardspeed up, you can start to steer upwind but you need long enough tacks to cater for the gybes where you lose ground.

Big thanks to Saff and others here. Your advice has been spot on. But I need winds to try on and today (Wed 7), I was about to head out to do further practice at Altona when the wind just flopped and all I could see were some guys just doing kite control moves and stuff, but no kiting. Bah this season so far has been abysmal to say the least - unless you're on the dole and around Rosebud! Enough with the Northerlies Huey!!!

Hey Salty,

Well progress has stalled and just when the winds picked up too! Arrgghh
This week at Altona has been sick to say the least
I *may* be having a go next week in StKilda or Altona before I fly off to Townsville. Can't wait for those steady SE trade winds and board shorts! woowhooo

Good luck with it Kazan,...

I'm hopefully out today/this weekend so if I crack it, I'll let you know the secret!

I have seen that video before Peter and I have to say it's one of my favorites of yours. It's actually a great video on seeing how you start imagining the kite diving when you start. And the location! Wow... Why don't people just kite anywhere and give it a go, as long as it's safe etc. i have no idea why there is this paranoia about locations around the bay. Like really, there is so much 'undiscovered' locations on the west side of the bay, queenscliff, etc. Kite surfing, to me, is about using the power of nature to explore, try and learn. It's such a cool sport in so many fronts, that we are really not fully using its full potential. Anyway, sorry to divert, but I love that video. Well done Peter.

I noticed again, how you look where you want to go and hardly look at the kite. Cooooolllll

Hey guys I only started 2 weeks ago but I can now water start 4/5 times and get going. Biggest thing I had going against me was sheeting in too much an not pointing the board enough down wind. Biggest improvement came with the right angle.

Hello all, just to recap, I'm in a similar boat (or should that be, board) as Kazan with my water start issues. I read the advice on this and another thread and went out on Friday to try and put this in use.

Firstly - arloj, that's a bl00dy good show. I will try and control my jealously.

Kazan, I can now, fairly regularly water start (in a rather odd/uncontrolled manor) to my left (right is def pending!).

What I was (and still am) doing is launching too fast directly down wind. I am moving quicker on the board than the kite can keep up so the lines are going a little slack and I dont' have enough momentum to keep whilst the kite recovers and gets power back.

I need to focus on either water starting with initial power/acceleration, and or, power off sooner to keep the lines taught or maybe point less down wind.

Did you get out over the weekend? Any progress?

Beginners make the same three mistakes all the time.

1. Stalling the kite. Push the bar out. Possibly pull in the trimmer a bit or rig the kite on the faster knots (lower knots on the back lines or higher knots on the front lines).

2. Flying the kite out of the power zone. Fly it more in the power zone and turn it before it gets to the edge.

3. Stalling the board (ie. pointing the board too high upwind. Straighten your front leg more and bend the back leg a bit. Try to avoid straightening your back leg too much when you start. Save that for carving a turn upwind as you accelerate.

All power comes from flying the kite in and though the power zone. You don't have to dive the kite to generate apparent wind, that is an advanced technique and not relevant for beginners. Simply fly the kite at a moderate pace down into the power zone and turn it to keep it in the power zone. Keep the kite flying smoothly.

There is no real difference between an up stroke and a down stroke. You will get a heap of power in both directions as long as the kite is in the power zone and not stalled.

Peter C, thanks for the words of encouragement and learner mistakes...

I certainly have been letting the kite go too far round the wind window, and I'm guilty of pointing the board directly down wind (because I wasn't told otherwise on my lesson) resulting in me accelerating quick than the kite, getting slack lines and losing power. I can get going left now... I just need to refine the technique.

Next steps are to point the board a little less down wind.

How long would you say it should take me to get to the point where I can go from water start to edging up wind? Is it a big progression from there?

^^^^ +1 for that.

I noticed that in addition to choking the kite, beginners use the bar as a handle and try to pull on the bar to drag themselves out of the water. They haul on the bar and lean forward as they try to climb up onto the board. This stalls the kite and also eases the tension on the lines which depowers the kite even more.

The correct method is to use the bar as a steering and control mechanism, not as a handle. Lean back a little with the upper body, fly the kite with moderate speed into the power zone, feel the power through the harness hook, bend you back leg a little, allow the kite to pull you out of the water and up.

BTW You can use the bar as a handle sometimes but only momentarily and only when you're riding along.

How long would you say it should take me to get to the point where I can go from water start to edging up wind? Is it a big progression from there?

Once you are confidently water starting the next progression to get going on a reach, mostly likely down wind a bit. This means you are up and going, edging the board, flying the kite and controlling its power (bar in & out). Don't worry too much about having to walk back along the beach when you come in to shore. Its important to get the feel of kiting.

I would say you get spend 2 to 5 sessions doing this.

Once you get the feel, you can then try edging the board more with your rear foot and bring the kite further up to the wind window so you go upwind. Its important to keep good apparent wind in the kite and your board speed up too.

Its also normal to go upwind better in one direction and not well in the other when learning.

Then you do a longish reach, stop and waterstart to come back to where you started. You've got it then.

Peterc150 said...

How long would you say it should take me to get to the point where I can go from water start to edging up wind? Is it a big progression from there?

Once you are confidently water starting the next progression to get going on a reach, mostly likely down wind a bit. This means you are up and going, edging the board, flying the kite and controlling its power (bar in & out). Don't worry too much about having to walk back along the beach when you come in to shore. Its important to get the feel of kiting.

I would say you get spend 2 to 5 sessions doing this.

Once you get the feel, you can then try edging the board more with your rear foot and bring the kite further up to the wind window so you go upwind. Its important to keep good apparent wind in the kite and your board speed up too.

Its also normal to go upwind better in one direction and not well in the other when learning.

Then you do a longish reach, stop and waterstart to come back to where you started. You've got it then.

PeterC, I am finally waterstarting consistently on the left... you were (all!) right, I was waterstarting too straight downwind. the 17knotts + 12m kite helped this weekend and was able to start and keep going for a good long reach.

Next question. To turn more up wind (and in control) do I put weight on my rear foot and/or push down more on my heals, or just one of those, or neither?

I guess it's the directional part I'm struggling on. I was able to park the kite and edge but it's how I fine tune my direction is the next progression on my left. Waterstart and balance is my challenge on my right.

JIC... A word smith will likely make an easier read - but the message is the same..

Choking...
A kite has to perform the same as an aeroplane wing or a windsurfing sail or a bird's wing or any aerofoil.. When the air is flowing smoothly over/under the foil it works, when the air flow is not smooth it does not work.

Smooth....(laminar etc etc)
The air flow (visualise a parcel of air call it A) splits at the leading edge of your kite - over the top (Atop) and underneath (Abottom) - leaving the trailing edge Atop & ABottom rejoin to make A again.

Not smooth = non-laminar (causing choking) Atop does not meet Abottom at the trailing edge of your kite.

So - try sticking your hand out the window of your car when you are going at least 50 KM/h Start with it level to the ground, then gradually angle your hand up. You should feel it lifting until about 3/4 of the way to being vertical - at that point your hand can start getting pushed up/down - the airflow is going non-laminar = choking. . At vertical it is way harder to hold steady = a flat surface against the wind no lift at all just drag...

Now back to the kite when it starts the upstroke - it is going slowly and the airflow is likely very near that 3/4 point - if you bar in it goes past 3/4's towards vertical - = non laminar and chokes (in aeroplanes it is called a stall) - If you bar out you turn back from 3/4 point towards the airflow - the kite speeds up as the flow speeds up (less drag) and generates more power - etc etc.

The trick to lift is Atop has to travel further over the top surface of the aero foil than Abottom to re-join at the trailing edge - this creates a slight vacuum on the top surface which lifts the aero foil (your power) towards the vacuum to try and remove the energy gradient.

When the air flow becomes non-laminar you loose this vacuum (and your power). Why does it become non-laminar? - The change in airflow direction at the kite leading edge on your up stroke can be 75+ degrees basically getting up toward a right angle - too much energy (mass) in the wrong direction - to smoothly flow around the surface - and U loose the aero foil principle.

You might get another tip or 2 from these posts...
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Kitesurfing/Newbies-Tips-Tricks/help-on-riding-the-board/

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Kitesurfing/Newbies-Tips-Tricks/keeping-the-speed-on/


Gateman is on the money - like riding a bike - once have learnt U do not forget

cheers

AP

Next question. To turn more up wind (and in control) do I put weight on my rear foot and/or push down more on my heals, or just one of those, or neither?

Keep your rear knee bent and use the rear foot to drive the edge of the board to go more more upwind. The kite will come forward too. The closer the kite gets to the edge of the wind window (forward) and the more your points towards upwind, the slower you will go, until you eventually lose power and bog down.

Once you get going on a reach experiment by edging the board more with your rear leg/foot and bring the kite forward, then back it off a bit to bear downwind and gather more speed. Also, look where you want to go, not at the kite.

Eventually it will "click" for you - first in one direction, then later in the other.

Note that as you go faster its harder to go upwind as the kite speed changes the direction of apparent wind.

Some more tips and info: kitesurfing-handbook.peterskiteboarding.com/progression/going-upwind