damn

I'll have a crack but I'm a newbie to

Lines are matched for kite all 4 rear and front(safety)
So if you shorten the frontlines you need to shorten the rear lines as well

example my 12m cab switch doesnt fly well and feels underpowered and hard to control if I use my 14m cab switches bar

Dont quote me Im guessing here.

Here lies the problem - I cant shorten the back lines. They are already at the shortest option possible.

My kite is a Naish Boxer.

Also, it seems a bit odd that if you adjust the standard features, like attaching the lines to the knot further up, or shortening the depower line using the provided pully, the kite becomes dangerous. You would think kites were designed with safety in mind, and any of the additional changes they put in their manual would be relatively "safe".

I had similar issues until I put on a chicken loop that is shorter than the original (and has a better safety system).

Still get the same bar throw (and therefore same amount of power / depower) but the bar stays closer to me so I can reach it properly when it's all the way out.

Shortening both sets of lines will do absolutely nothing with regard to how far away the bar is.

You may be able to put a stopper at the furthest point that you can reach, which will keep the bar always in reach. This may affect how much it depowers though.

kitesRfun said...


Here lies the problem - I cant shorten the back lines. They are already at the shortest option possible.

My kite is a Naish Boxer.

Also, it seems a bit odd that if you adjust the standard features, like attaching the lines to the knot further up, or shortening the depower line using the provided pully, the kite becomes dangerous. You would think kites were designed with safety in mind, and any of the additional changes they put in their manual would be relatively "safe".

Yes but you can lengthen the fronts, which effectively shortens the rears, relative to the fronts, understand?
Listen to what Nebbian said, its basically the truth about your situation as a beginner.

If you shortened the centre line (incorrectly called the depower line in this thread - this sport desperately needs a common glossary of terms/meanings/names), but did not shorten your front flying lines, then the effect that will have it to make the rear lines too long, and you will need to add pigtails to your front flying lines that are exactly the same length as the amount you shortened the centre line to make your kites trim "normal" again, understand? (everyone else too? )

BUT you really should put the centre line back to the original length and just grab the centre line and pull it towards you if the bar slips out of reach, there is no danger in doing this and your instructor should have shown you how to do this and that it is a completely normal thing for hobbity people to do.

You might find a SEAT harness a bit better. They keep the hook down low around your hips so you have more reach with your arms.

The only real disadvantage is that they look daggy and they restrict your movement, particularly when riding toeside. Your stance suffers a bit because you are more likely to ride in poo-man position. At your stage of progression that's the least of your worries.

That what I said. See above.

kitesRfun said...


Mostly it is a pain because I have to use both hands on the bar when I'm on the beach, and carrying my board is really tricky. If I use one hand, the other side of the bar slides up and the kite dives. It's especially tricky if the wind shifts a lot.

Grab the bar close to the centre, and when you need to pull the 'other' side of it, point your elbow.

Being able to control the kite one handed is a vital skill... especially handy when body dragging.

ffifty5 said...

"The most common reason the arms don't reach is because the harness has risen up " ......well yes and no .... my basic reason is the same as original poster, my arms are shortish too, requiring a monkeyish climb up the centre line to grab the bar.
I cut about 5" off the end of the "centre line" at the chicken loop to bring the whole effort closer to me. (Cabrinha 14 SB) The "throw" distance of the Switchblade is the main problem, great range for de-power, but big time poo stance trying to depower. Just perfect though on my Core 10.5GT. The "throw" is all reachable. It would seem that that if the attachment points for the Switchblade were moved up along the leading edge, towards the centre, there would be more kite control with less bar movement, right KITEPOWER?

I'm in the same club as you other hobbits, I'm 5'5" so cannot reach the bar on a Cabrinha kite if I let go of it. However I have no trouble riding them, just grab the centre line, pull it towards me with both hands if needed (more wind), grab the bar with one hand in the centre of the bar and let go of the centre line. I also need to do this to grab the depower toggle on a SB3 or the first of the IDS kites and last years IDSX too.
Thats just how I need to operate these kites.
Shortening the centre line is not recommended, it does reduce the available emergency depower for that model of kite, you need to be aware that you have compromised the primary safety system!
You also need to shorten your rear lines by the same amount or you will not get full power from your kite.

Its not just a matter of getting new attachment points sewn further along the leading edge. Attachment point position on all kites is critical, and its a black art, learned by trial and error by kite designers. Change to LE tube thickness, chord profile, depth, AR, LE curve, Length of the bridles, etc, etc, all have an effect on where the bridle points need to be on any given kite. Just because bridle points are ins a certain position on one brand or model, does not transfer at all to another brand or model of kite.

Merry Holidays!

ok, if you shorten the centre line then you lose the ability to fully sheet the kite in. this will affect all areas of performance especially jumping. it will also reduce your ability to stall the kite so that it drifts back from the edge of the window should you want to do this.

simply put, you want to be able to access the full range of angle of attack of the kite, from luffing to just stalling (on an sle kite). how much throw this takes depends on the design of the kite and the bridle configuration.

i have long arms so i guess it's not a problem i've had to deal with...

i'm all for tinkering, so long as it's informed tinkering so that you can anticipate all the effects of your adjustments and retain performance and safety.

Its is all relative to the size of the bar for the size of the kite. 
Like 
smaller person - smaller kite 
Smaller kite - smaller bar 
Smaller bar - smaller throw on the chicken.
And so on with bigger kite bigger person
Blah blah blah

But if its not working you could get a smaller loop and take it with you to your next kite as long as you stick to cabs.

Adjusting the stopper may cause kite loops. But not the good kind.

When the kite is way over powered and it can't exhaust the wind that's when the stopper point matters. Its not often but that's why you don't move the stopper. Its that extreme danger day when you had an oversize kite to get massive jumps.

Full sheet out to adjusted stopper the wind still spills out past the leading edge.
Works ok until you crash it crashes and bounces back into the air your underwater or whatever example you can come up with that would send kite on the loose and out of control.

it's overcharged with wind.

So wind spills out the front this causes the kite to fall backward into the window down wind of you and it just tight loops till you stop because you or the kite have hit something bigger
That extra distance as short as it is gives the kite just that little bit so when it goes to loop it has a bigger radius for the turning circle this allows it to find water instead to come to rest and stops.

On my largest kite the throw when fully out is out of my reach and it is worse on some angles. In the water I manover myself so the chicken is against me. it's against my chest then I reach up.

I notice when it is really windy and I ride my 9 it's got a tiny little bar with nearly no throw but that's all it needs.

I find its a problem when the Kite is to big for me and I should not be on such a big kite for my size in such big winds. But hay the boosting.
My techneeks

ffifty5 said...

Mr Kitepower, ... I was hoping for an authoritive opinion from you ..presuming wisdom from a sponsoring source ....
I have a Cabrinha 14m SB, I have shortened the "black center line" by about 5", between the chicken loop and "the kite end". The actual front and back lines are not changed in length, I have simply lost the ability to haul on to the original position, but can still depower out to the stopper stuff, with the bar now in better reach. Had this debate today with a leading Melb shop chap in Sandringham, who emphatically declared that I had changed my depower ability, huh? against the stopper is as far as you can depower!!!! Period! Same chap mentioned another way to achieve the same end by doing away with the chicken loop, direct connection from QR1 to harness hook. This effectively shortens the "black centre line" in another way. Both ways get your hands closer to the bar with the same amount of depower.

Again, a big tick to Core GT for short, within reach, throw of the bar.

Hi Mr Ffifty5

You have changed your kites trim and in a negative way. You should rally go back to the dealer in melb and purchase an original centre line and refit it to your bar.
You have changed the trim of your kite and it is now "depowered" by the amount that you cut off the centre line.
If you want to prove that, connect all 4 lines to a common, strong anchor point and pull on the lines, with the trim strap set to the "fully powered" position, you will find that the chicken loop is pulled hard up against the bar and the rear lines will have some slack in them. This is not the correct trim for your kite.

You kites primary safety system depends on the length of the original centre line. If you are a short ar$e like me and cannot reach the bar when you release it then you can simply pull the centre line towards you with one or both hands until you can grab the bar with one hand and then let go of the centre line, so that you have the bar in both hands again, make sense?

Can I add a totally different solution.

If you are using a waist harness everthing is further away. A seat harness will bring it all much closer since you hook in much lower down. I can't use a waist harness because somewhere back in my family tree they left out the genes for long arms and I'm always over-reaching.

A seat harness makes reaching the bar much, much easier. I've been where you are and this is the solution.

ffifty5 said...

Kitepower Australia said...

You have changed your kites trim and in a negative way. You should rally go back to the dealer in melb and purchase an original centre line and refit it to your bar.
You have changed the trim of your kite and it is now "depowered" by the amount that you cut off the centre line.
If you want to prove that, connect all 4 lines to a common, strong anchor point and pull on the lines, with the trim strap set to the "fully powered" position, you will find that the chicken loop is pulled hard up against the bar and the rear lines will have some slack in them. This is not the correct trim for your kite.

Hmm thanks for replying to me again Kitepower.
There is heaps to learn bout kitesurfin and the physics of the stings can seem a little confusing, and any safety matters need to be carefully appreciated. By taking out about 5" of my cetreline I have effectively reduced the amount of FULL power available if I leave the rear line on the same knot "at the kite". I have exactly the same depower though and the big win is that the bar is that much closer to my reach. I shorten the rear line to the top knot to achieve near the same full power, all else being equal, and dare I mention, attach it above the Larks Head attachment point to get that "exact same 5" length difference!

My riding technique was my problem in the first instance though. I found in overpowering conditions, when wind has freshened from a comfortable speed to being skipped sideways downwind to fast out of control, that I was trying to "depower" the 14m SB by sheeting out? Ugh, better ways than that have been learnt. Sheeting out was a sailboarding legacy instinct. Yes the smaller 10.5 Core GT helps but better riding tecnique is the go. "Blamed the tools"?

No worries mate, just trying to help.
Please check your lines for equal length, if they are not and are unique to the setup you have now for that kite make sure you do not use them on any other kite. I think I understand what you have done, and so long as you realise that you have reduced the "overide" safety/depower range of the kite and can deal with the consequences (strong sudden and sustained wind gusts) seems ok then?

Knickers said...

I know this is very delayed and wordy response but I have had similar problems with being unable to reach the trim strap and bar when let go.

I am a girl, but not all that short, but I think this is a common problem with the depower rope/centre rope/chicken loop rope (WHAT actually is the correct terminology for describing the bits between the chicken loop and front line connection).

I used to ride North kites, and I still think their design for the depower system is the best I have seen and wonder why the other companies have not figured out similar systems.
The depower rope is a continuous loop, meeting up at the trimming cleat. This cleat can easily be moved in position up and down the rope loop, effectively changing the distance from the chicken loop to the trim cleat (and thus how far out the bar sits when let go), without changing the effective overall length of the centre rope, and thus has no effect on kite trim.
It does change how much effect of trimming and sheeting in and out has on power (with the cleat closer, less bar movement causes more sheeting effect). It doesnt affect overall depower, or what happens if you release the safety.

I am fairly experienced (4 years), and made the decision to hybridise my old North depower/safety system (was a 5 line) onto my new and unreachable 4 line kite this year, which I have been very happy with.
However, I spent months thinking it over, and got a mate to fly the kite the first time post modification (as he is about twice my weight and could hold the kite down more easily if things went wrong) in a safe place standing in water.

As a newb, I wouldnt do these kind of modifications, but would advise to go looking for the kites out there that have more user-friendly design with regards reaching the bar and trim straps.

The moveable cleat idea is clever for sure, but it really only suits their 5 line kite system, because if the cleat is moved too close on the 4 line version, bar depower and resulting safety is really compromised.

It is no big deal to learn to pull the centre line in with both hands until the bar can be reached, then grab the bar with one hand, quickly, and just as quickly then let go of the centre line and bingo, you have the bar back in your hands.
The redundant safety of kites with high bar depower (and longer bar throw) is also a very desirable user friendly design feature that saves a lot of accidents and loftings.

All hobbitty people like me need to learn the technique, its not hard at all and does not require great strength.