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freeballer
freeballer
2 posts
2 posts
28 Dec 2013 3:54pm
So I went out today with other kiters and windsurfers for the first time, and just wondering if there was any rules like who gives way to who when one guy is coming in and one guys going out etc. Cheers
iggypop
iggypop
VIC
164 posts
VIC, 164 posts
28 Dec 2013 9:09pm
This is a bit of a tricky one as some of the rules seem to contradict one another
What I have read is
Rider with his right hand forward has right of way
Rider heading out from shore has right of way over rider heading towards shore
Rider furthest up wind I has right of way ie passes on upwind side to keep his upwind position
If a rider is further down wind of another rider he shouldn't attempt to pass on the upwind side
I have been approaching it as whoever is further upwind passes on the upwind side and I haven't had a problem yet
Just remember to keep your kite low when passing on the downwind side and keep your kite high when passing on the upwind side
Often if your coming at each other on the same line and someone's kite is low then it's easiest if they pass down wind
I am fairly newbie ish so would be interested to hear more experienced riders input
The way I see it is one rider usually indicates his intention with and adjustment to their line or kite height and both riders then have an understanding
This has been my experience so far
MOWIT
MOWIT
67 posts
67 posts
28 Dec 2013 6:13pm
Kitefoil meet Windsurfer
belldiver
belldiver
QLD
171 posts
QLD, 171 posts
28 Dec 2013 9:41pm
Actually quite a good post to rehash and i thinkfreeballer pretty much has it how it is, though Im also new.

My main gripe is one of the places I kite, Lake Weyba (Lots of beginners, body draggers)on the sunny coast. You have to water launch and land.

Normally its fine but every so often there is some gun who just kites 10 to 20 metres off the area where you launch and recover. Back and forth they go oblivious to the problems they cause. Im sure they think every one thinks there cool, im here to tell you your ****heads!!!

So while most people will walk 50 metres out and then stay up wind 100m of so off the launch and recover area. When you go to come in some legend will be write there. Turning 5m from your kite as you come in down wind, try to get it on its wing tip and tip it over and recover it.

I admit this is probably the wrong attitude as I used to just land the kite miles out and walk it in. Now I just lock onto the little beach and head straight in. **** them idiots, i want to see one of them end up in the trees. (Well i dont want to see them hurt, just there kite destroyed)
toppleover
toppleover
QLD
2070 posts
QLD, 2070 posts
28 Dec 2013 11:43pm
Yes, Iggy is on to it - basic rules to avoid a collision as I understand them are :
If your upwind keep your kite high
If your downwind keep kite low
Give way to kiters entering/leaving the water & also give way if someone is riding down the line on a wave.
Also I give way to noobs, the list can go on & on - just have fun & stay safe.
freeballer
freeballer
2 posts
2 posts
29 Dec 2013 7:24pm
Thanks for the feedback, I got a feel there was a bit of a loop system going on out there, but sometimes it felt like a game of chicken and the loser would have to go downwind.
antisense
antisense
WA
109 posts
WA, 109 posts
29 Dec 2013 9:41pm
was out today and had an unpleasant experience. I just finished trimming kite after launch (admittedly kite sitting at twelve) and some clown comes tearing into launching area just as I'm about to head out. I see him hit the beach and start walking into landing zone, kite heading straight for mine. he was clearly an experienced rider as he'd been bombing some big airs. so I just stay put thinking this guy is gonna move around me...nope.. he walks his kite straight into mine and wraps over my lines.. no great drama as he managed to get his kite of my lines pretty quick after they came down together and luckily they were both at the edge of the window. but I was thinking what the f!? I just don't get what was going on in his head :/ as a noob I was thinking did I do anything wrong? but I'm sure I didn't...
GarryA
GarryA
WA
268 posts
WA, 268 posts
30 Dec 2013 12:13am
freeballer said..

So I went out today with other kiters and windsurfers for the first time, and just wondering if there was any rules like who gives way to who when one guy is coming in and one guys going out etc. Cheers


Safety and rules??? > ???

Right of way rules

Explanation of right of way rules that apply to other kitesurfers and craft on the water. Level: basic
Right of way rules determine who has the "right of way" and who should "yield, or get out of the way" when passing.
?? A kiter on a starboard tack (right hand and shoulder forwards) has right of way.
?? A kiter on a port tack (left hand and shoulder forwards) must yield right of way (get out the way).
?? For two kiters on the same tack, the kiteboarder upwind must give way to the kitesurfer downwind.

While passing in opposite directions:

?? the upwind kiteboarder must fly their kite high,

?? the kiteboarder downwind must fly their kite low

In surf:

?? Kiters leaving the shore (outgoing) have right of way over incoming riders. Riders close to shore or negotiating broken water are more at risk, so they have the right of way
?? Kiters riding on a wave have right of way over other riders, except for outgoing riders as above.

Don't ever assume you have right of way or insist on taking it - the other kitesurfer or vessel may not know the right of way rule, or they may not be looking!

If two kites collide and the lines get tangled, throw your bar and release your safety immediately. Two tangled kites have twice the power and no control. Under power, kite lines will abrade and cut each other. If both kiters release their kites they are likely to separate themselves with little or no resulting damage.
GarryA
GarryA
WA
268 posts
WA, 268 posts
30 Dec 2013 12:19am
antisense said..

was out today and had an unpleasant experience. I just finished trimming kite after launch (admittedly kite sitting at twelve) and some clown comes tearing into launching area just as I'm about to head out. I see him hit the beach and start walking into landing zone, kite heading straight for mine. he was clearly an experienced rider as he'd been bombing some big airs. so I just stay put thinking this guy is gonna move around me...nope.. he walks his kite straight into mine and wraps over my lines.. no great drama as he managed to get his kite of my lines pretty quick after they came down together and luckily they were both at the edge of the window. but I was thinking what the f!? I just don't get what was going on in his head :/ as a noob I was thinking did I do anything wrong? but I'm sure I didn't...


that experienced kiter is a twat... and does not know where his kite is sitting.... but in hand he was also as I would persume that u would put ur kite lower so he could pass and u did not, but inturn he should have asked u to drop ur kite.
Peterc150
Peterc150
VIC
710 posts
VIC, 710 posts
31 Dec 2013 1:05am
Some additional information:

Right of way rules - kitesurfing-handbook.peterskiteboarding.com/safety/right-of-way-rules

Etiquette - kitesurfing-handbook.peterskiteboarding.com/safety/etiquette

CLEAR guidelines - kitesurfing-handbook.peterskiteboarding.com/safety/clear-guidelines

Short version - if there is any chance of collision, yield (go downwind) and/or take evasive action.

Experienced kiters will judge who is upwind (and therefore raises their kite) and who is downwind (and therefore lowers their kite) while passing. But inexperienced kiters might not judge this well. Beginners may also just stop and park their kite at 12 . . .
Main
Main
QLD
2338 posts
QLD, 2338 posts
31 Dec 2013 10:46pm
the rule that kiters leaving shore have right of way has never made sense to me.

if someone is coming in to shore and I'm about to go out i always give way and let them either transition or come in. And on the other hand there's nothing more annoying than someone launching towards you when your coming in on a wave or getting ready to transition.

It makes even less sense on flat water

anyone know why this rule is in place ??
Peterc150
Peterc150
VIC
710 posts
VIC, 710 posts
1 Jan 2014 12:32am
Main said..

the rule that kiters leaving shore have right of way has never made sense to me.

if someone is coming in to shore and I'm about to go out i always give way and let them either transition or come in. And on the other hand there's nothing more annoying than someone launching towards you when your coming in on a wave or getting ready to transition.

It makes even less sense on flat water

anyone know why this rule is in place ??


This really only applies close to shore.

It can be difficult to get out through surf (even bay surf shorebreaks), particularly when you are learning how to handle surf and waves - you need to pick the right gap and get going fast to get out. If a kiter is coming in on a wave and the outgoing kiter is forced to stop or take evasive action then they could get caught be a set and find it very difficult to get going again.

Kiters on waves on the other hand have a lot more options - they can easily steer away from kiters coming out and bail off the wave to go out again at any time of their choosing.

This rule is in deference to others. Its the opposite to "I own the wave for as long as I want and everyone must get out of my way". That applies for the first 3/4 of a ride, but not the 1/4 close to shore.
Dl33ta
Dl33ta
TAS
463 posts
TAS, 463 posts
1 Jan 2014 2:45pm
Where I kite you often get swarms of 10+ kiters doing down winders so if you are mowing the lawn or go down wind slowly you can suddenly find yourself in a chaotic pack of other kiters. Being a bit slower and a solo rider myself, what I do and have seen other guys do is head out to sea when the first guy catches you. Do a long tack upwind and within one tack you are behind the swarm enjoying your solitude again, that way you don't have to worry about port and starboard tacks, etc. Most experienced guys will realise what you are doing and power through your zone as well.
cauncy
cauncy
WA
8407 posts
WA, 8407 posts
1 Jan 2014 12:47pm
Main said..

the rule that kiters leaving shore have right of way has never made sense to me.

if someone is coming in to shore and I'm about to go out i always give way and let them either transition or come in. And on the other hand there's nothing more annoying than someone launching towards you when your coming in on a wave or getting ready to transition.

It makes even less sense on flat water

anyone know why this rule is in place ??


correct, this is a rule that we don't have at out local, the outgoing rider gives way to the incoming rider, in a busy location with this rule the incoming rider would be lucky to get upwind, we all do our jumps just as we head out and having this rule would have some nasty clashes, we have a couple of nice little waves to ride upwind and down the line, and it pisses us off when someone cuts your fun short
Haydn24
Haydn24
QLD
473 posts
QLD, 473 posts
1 Jan 2014 3:29pm
That rule is in place because its far safer for a kiter to be out to sea than they are standing on the beach, it's all about margin for error. If your out on the water and a big gust hits you, you can either ride it out or pull the safety and swim in, however if your standing on the beach WAITING for show offs to do their trick in the designated area and a gust hits you while your kites at 12 you have very little chance of recovering and a high chance of injury or worse.

ALWAYS let a kiter off the beach if they are waiting to go out, your friggen trick or wave can wait one or two more tacks.
cauncy
cauncy
WA
8407 posts
WA, 8407 posts
1 Jan 2014 1:54pm
Haydn24 said..

That rule is in place because its far safer for a kiter to be out to sea than they are standing on the beach, it's all about margin for error. If your out on the water and a big gust hits you, you can either ride it out or pull the safety and swim in, however if your standing on the beach WAITING for show offs to do their trick in the designated area and a gust hits you while your kites at 12 you have very little chance of recovering and a high chance of injury or worse.

ALWAYS let a kiter off the beach if they are waiting to go out, your friggen trick or wave can wait one or two more tacks.


we always give way to a rider entering the water, he shouldn't have his kite at 12 when entering the water, we don't show off as the is usually only 6 max we just have an understanding between us so a friggin wave trick or wave doesn't go to waste, I wouldn't dream of cutting someone off after they've worked themselves into position to make that wave or section, its better to bare off let them have their fun
Haydn24
Haydn24
QLD
473 posts
QLD, 473 posts
1 Jan 2014 4:42pm
cauncy said..

Haydn24 said..

That rule is in place because its far safer for a kiter to be out to sea than they are standing on the beach, it's all about margin for error. If your out on the water and a big gust hits you, you can either ride it out or pull the safety and swim in, however if your standing on the beach WAITING for show offs to do their trick in the designated area and a gust hits you while your kites at 12 you have very little chance of recovering and a high chance of injury or worse.

ALWAYS let a kiter off the beach if they are waiting to go out, your friggen trick or wave can wait one or two more tacks.


we always give way to a rider entering the water, he shouldn't have his kite at 12 when entering the water, we don't show off as the is usually only 6 max we just have an understanding between us so a friggin wave trick or wave doesn't go to waste, I wouldn't dream of cutting someone off after they've worked themselves into position to make that wave or section, its better to bare off let them have their fun


It wasn't directed at you. In your first comment you said "the outgoing rider gives way to the incoming rider" but then you just said "we always give way to a rider entering the water". I'm confused to which you do?? Or do you mean once they are IN the water?

At my local, twats go back and forth along the beach front showing off to their girlfriends, mums, friends etc while we sit there twiddling our thumbs waiting to enter the water. I know you shouldn't keep your kite at 12 but a lot of people do and sometimes you have to with others launching around you etc. One day someone will get launched into trees because they weren't able to get into the water and tack out to sea
pattiecannon
pattiecannon
QLD
593 posts
QLD, 593 posts
1 Jan 2014 6:55pm
Hey iggy,
like everyone here I second your summation except for the heading in out from the shore rule. Once you're on the water, the same rules apply to everyone regardless of their position bar the waves rule. The rules don't so much as contradict each other as much as over rule each other in certain circumstances.

It's worth pointing out that jumping or tricks without 60m clear downwind is also against the 'rules' as structured by the IKO.

iggypop said..

This is a bit of a tricky one as some of the rules seem to contradict one another
What I have read is

1. Rider with his right hand forward has right of way
= correct

2. Rider heading out from shore has right of way over rider heading towards shore
= this is incorrect.
Only a kiter on the land has right of way over a kiter on the water. As soon as you are in the water it it the normal rules whether you are heading in or out. The only exception to this is in waves. The rider of the wave has right of way over all except the guy on the beach.

3. Rider furthest up wind I has right of way ie passes on upwind side to keep his upwind position,
If a rider is further down wind of another rider he shouldn't attempt to pass on the upwind side
I have been approaching it as whoever is further upwind passes on the upwind side and I haven't had a problem yet
= correct.

4. Just remember to keep your kite low when passing on the downwind side and keep your kite high when passing on the upwind side
Often if your coming at each other on the same line and someone's kite is low then it's easiest if they pass down wind
= correct, definitely what you should do. I have seen a few cockups from dudes thinking they have right of way wherever they are..

I am fairly newbie ish so would be interested to hear more experienced riders input

5. The way I see it is one rider usually indicates his intention with and adjustment to their line or kite height and both riders then have an understanding
= definitely the best thing to do is look for and use signals in this way. Otherwise just use the avoidance rule.

This has been my experience so far


If you have to assert your right of way for whatever reason, then do it with assertion! Clear and definite intentions are the signals you need to be sending out.
yeww
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