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Griffin Argo X - anyone got one.

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Created by mattn 6 months ago, 30 Oct 2016
mattn
NSW, 66 posts
30 Oct 2016 3:21PM
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Hi, there should be a few Argo X's starting to hit the water.

The sales material says.. The AX has more light wind power, more float, higher jumps, even better upwind ability, more de power than the Argo. The AX wave rides, has more de power, faster turning and is as light and fast with the advanced mod added than the TRX..

I was wondering how people are finding them (most interested in how the 11 and 12 sizes perform).


Thanks.

warwickl
NSW, 719 posts
31 Oct 2016 10:00AM
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Mattn, I recently bought a 9m and 11m ArgoX. I have owned Argos and TRX and TRX were always my favourite.

I now have had 1 session on the 9m ArgoX and 3 on the 11m ArgoX with both on the pro setting which apparently is more to the liking of TRX fans.

I mostly kite on a strapless surfboard however had 1 session on a twin tip with the 11m and to my surprise I really enjoyed the session in a 15kn southerly.

Experience so far:
+ Both the 9 and 11 have very much the characteristics of a TRX with possibly a little more bottom end power.
+ Power seems very consistent even in gusty conditions
+ The ArgoX is a little more stable than TRX which could be partly due to an extra bridle line to the leading edge.
+ ArgoX is now a nice light weight kite (compared to Argo) similar to the TRX
+ 11m seems to be better than my 10m TRX and I think the 11m ArgoX will fully replace my 10m TRX
+ 11m is as responsive as 10m TRX
+ While I had no issue launching a TRX the ArgoX is very easy and should be acceptable for all levels of kiters
+ power/depower control is excellent with the new Griffin bar

I think Griffin have achieved what they set out to do as stated on their web site.

After a few more sessions on ArgoX I intend to go back on my 9 and 10 TRXs for further comparison

naxiand
3 posts
31 Oct 2016 9:00PM
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There is an early review on facebook :

Griffin ArgoX is a medium aspect 3 strut, pulley less, all round kite. The bar is light with soft ends, good grip that it floats on water and it flags into one front line. There is also a swivel under the bar that turns very easy for untwisting the lines. One pump system with a single big valve for easy pumping. Construction is standard with a light frame. The leading edge has reinforcements in critical areas to minimize tear. Minimal dacron at the trailing edge makes for a light weight kite that will fly in marginal conditions. It comes with two sets of bridles standard and a "pro" mode. The kite out of the bag has the standard one.

The first thing that you will notice when pumped and in the air is the stability of the kite. It's rock solid in the air no matter the conditions. ArgoX is a sheet 'n' go kite. Just pull in the bar and off you go. The bar pressure is medium. Upwind performance is good enough. In standard mode the kite seats a little back in the wind window, the turning is kind of axial and the turning speed is medium. Relaunch it super easy even in marginal conditions plus the short bridles and the line deflectors at the tips will ensure that you will get the kite back in the air in no time. Beginners will find those characteristics easy for their first steps in kiteboarding. More advanced riders will feel confident to try new tricks.

Changing the bridles into "pro" mode the turning speed of the kite is now a lot quicker but not too quick to make the kite "twitchy". The kite turns quick and pivotal (around itself) with less power than in standard mode. You shut out the power of the kite by sheeting out where in standard mode it will always pull.
In pro mode the kite goes also better upwind, the bar pressure is a little less but it can't be considered light.
In both bridle modes you will get good pop with good release. Jumping is easy and you will get good float with soft landings. In standard mode the kite is very forgiving. Pro mode needs more attention but it remains stable.Griffin ArgoX is really two kites in one by changing the bridles into the two modes.
Whatever is your style you are being covered.
www.facebook.com/GriffinkitesGR/








I have the kites about 3 months now in sizes 12-9-7m i have flown them in standard and pro mode so if you wanna know something more just ask. I cant compare with last generation Argo. I have flown only a 10m Argo from 2014 and was only for half hour. My only comment is that at the upper end (was 25-30 knots) the older Argo couldn't dump power (like a lot other delta-ish kites) where with ArgoX i haven't noticed this.
I am an ambassador so you can take my opinion as biased or not. I am used to speak my mind always. I really like the kites for the indent all round purpose,especially in 9 and 7m for my local conditions. The above review pretty much sums it all ;) :)

Robbo2099
WA, 675 posts
31 Oct 2016 10:50PM
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2017 ArgoX

DISCLAIMER: I have known Chris, the kite designer, for about 15 years. Have flown all of his kites from the first til the latest one.

Just bought two ArgoX kites -- a 7m and a 12m .

Got a chance to fly the 7m on Sunday.

Was blowing 25-30 by the time I arrived at the beach (Coronation Beach, Geraldton) and everyone was landing kites and coming in, as they were all unable to handle the wind. Guy on an 8 said he was getting "yanked everywhere". Someone else (landing a 6m) commented "waste of time".

Launched and kited for about and hour with about 5 windsurfers. First impressions: I really like this kite. Can't fault the kite in any way. Easy, stable launch. Quick but totally predictable. Immediately intuitive, no learning curve.

Handled the strong wind as well as the gusts without having to depower past about half way. Bar is simple, feels good to the touch. Has what it needs and nothing more. Double diameter front lines. Great build quality. Solid as a rock.

Had a great kite, never felt out of control or overpowered even during the gusts. Big jumps, easy to whip it around for an off-the-lip wave ride. Only needed to run the depower to about halfway (I'm 62, 186cm and currently about 84kg)

I had an Argo 2013 before this one. It's still flying fine but this one is a good 30-40% better, more stable, more predictable, more enjoyable. Build quality on the new kite is first-class. Nothing to improve on. Lots of small improvements over the 2013 kite both in build quality and behaviours. Reckon I could ride the 7m in 40 knots if it came down to it. Didn't get a chance to test the low end on this occasion... ;-)

Safety system is simple, positive and direct. It won't accidentally release but seem simple enough to reconnect if need be. The spinning swivel on the chicken system is a great idea to eliminate line twists. Only thing I could criticise would be that I'd prefer the bar to be a bit shorter but I bought one bar for two kites and a shorter bar wouldn't be enough for the 12m kite.

Overall verdict: Best kite I've ever flown. (Caveat -- I've been kiting for 16 years but haven't flown everything out there...) but I really like this kite. Haven't tried the bridle mods as I can't see any reason to change it. Maybe on the 12m but probably won't have a chance to fly it unit April or so... the 7m kite: 10 out of 10.

Leovan
4 posts
3 Nov 2016 3:24PM
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Hi there,

a quick reply from The Netherlands, where Im the only griffin rider besides the ridres who bought my old griffin kites :-) . Ride the griffins now for 8 years or so, griffin, chimera, trx and so on. Ride them all.

Now Im on the argoX , got a 7 & 10 (92kg) , and they are really awesome kites. default and pro settings are really good. Quick, stable and big jumps :-) . For sure the argoX is one of the best kites on the market today. And I can advise everyone to buy one without trying, you wont regret. Low and is really great, ride the 10 from 17knots up to 30, the 7 from 25 up to 45 knots.

Dont have the time to post a big review but I think Christian did a hell of a job to develop the ArgoX.

My advise: ride it






dafish
NSW, 1019 posts
4 Nov 2016 6:44AM
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Hey Leo, nice to see you on this forum. Now that I have been to your patch, better plan a trip down to ours someday soon! It's a tad warmer here and the water is crystal clear!

catalaussie
125 posts
4 Nov 2016 8:25PM
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Disclosure: strong Griffin supporter for a long time and actually on the support team, but always trying to give honest feedback as not being honest could give not so happy customers.

Hi Mattn,

are you actually riding an Argo or TRX kite? Are you interested on comparison between ArgoX and Argo/TRX? Or just asking for a general review?

I have a 10&14m ArgoX quiver and I've made some reviews on the Griffin forum, but I could try to make a more especific ArgoX vs Argo/TRX review if you (or someone else) are interested on it.

Here is an early review that I made about my ArgoX 10m first rides on twintip and race board:

Not so gusty (11-23), but going up and down. I'm around 68Kg now. On the default mode, not the pro, as wind was high and I was really anxious to try. Used the default bridle setting (default bridle and default shoulder attachment),
24m standard lines length.

Loving it. Huge floaty jumps. More boost and float than TRX. Jumping really high. Smooth power and boosting much higher than TRX when pulling the bar. Really good pop. Light bar pression but really responsive.

More powerful than TRX. Riding comfortable on 11-23 just using depower (not fully depowered) on same knot power setting (middle knot)), so may have also a great wind range. I was usually riding a bigger size than my friends on the TRX. Now was on same/smaller size. Turning similar to TRX on the default bridle mod (didn't try the pro mod).

Really stable in the air. Managing gusts really well even not so gusty in this case.

Going really well upwind.

May drift really well as I was going really well downwind on the race board riding down the line with no backstalling. As I'm not really riding waves, so I can't tell so much about drift.

Great new bigger inflate/deflate valve. Great to have one way system to inflate. It is similar as the one on last Cabrinhas and Ozones. It works great. Really easy and fast to inflate and deflate.

The friends who tried my kite were especially surprised because of big boosts and floaty jumps.


About racing: I’ve seen it’s not rated high on the website for racing, I enjoyed a lot on my raceboard. As it is powerful but power is smooth and has constant pull and massive depower was good. Waterstart was really easy (not always easy considering my 180cmx70cm board and 41cm and 39cm fins) and also great for gibing and tacking). Upwind angle was good and, as it has massive depower, was managing well any gust keeping a good direction upwind. An specific race bar would help getting a more continuous upwind angle, but not a kite issue and not needed for free racing just for fun or getting out in lowest winds as posible. As it’s turning fast and stable, it’s good for those using downloop on tacking.

I suppose racing was rated initially considering the kite shape is not the best for this discipline and comparing to race specific kites used in racing competition (mostly foils actually), but I would say it is a good kite to be used for those riding a raceboard just for fun and those who want to get a better low end to be on the water in lightwinds and not waiting on the sand for the wind.

It could be also a good kite to be used with an hydrofoil board as it is giving smooth constant pull and has massive depower. Most of people riding hydrofoils in my area are using F-one bandits and it could be compared to our ArgoX. Only those on racing competition here are using racing specific kites or foil kites. So I would say it is good for average raceboard riders using the raceboard for fun and not the best to be used for competition at the highest level.

I've tried Griffins, Argos, Chimeras and TRX since 2009 until now and I have to say the ArgoX is clearly the BEST GRIFFIN KITE I'VE EVER RIDE FOR SURE!!!


Happy to give more especific feedback or more detailed info in case I'm asked about it. Feel free to ask for extra info or PM me in case you want to know more.

Anyway will try to post an ArgoX vs Argo/TRX for you or current Griffin riders wishing to know more about the new ArgoX.

All my best,

Alex

dafish
NSW, 1019 posts
5 Nov 2016 7:52AM
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Nice one Alex, look forward to seeing you and the family soon!

mc09
NSW, 2 posts
5 Nov 2016 1:38PM
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with the performance of the 9m Argox.
I am another griffin fan but this one takes the cake.

first thing i noticed about the kite was the hang time at the peak of jumps. I love a good old board off and with this years kite i felt like i had all the time in the world to try new variations.

In the flats it has lots of pop with good consistent pull once in the air but not to much that handle passes are made more difficult. I have only ridden it with the pro bridle and its stability even in gusty conditions has been a blessing for my riding.

i have ridden the 9 in 15 - 30 knots and i didn't want another size kite.
one last thing to note is the depower this is the first kite in 12 + years of kiting that depowering the kite does not affect the turing of the kite WOW

Robbo2099
WA, 675 posts
5 Nov 2016 2:09PM
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Select to expand quote
mc09 said..
with the performance of the 9m Argox.
I am another griffin fan but this one takes the cake.

first thing i noticed about the kite was the hang time at the peak of jumps. I love a good old board off and with this years kite i felt like i had all the time in the world to try new variations.

In the flats it has lots of pop with good consistent pull once in the air but not to much that handle passes are made more difficult. I have only ridden it with the pro bridle and its stability even in gusty conditions has been a blessing for my riding.

i have ridden the 9 in 15 - 30 knots and i didn't want another size kite.
one last thing to note is the depower this is the first kite in 12 + years of kiting that depowering the kite does not affect the turing of the kite WOW


Yeah, have to agree with mc09 -- one thing of particular note about this kite that I didn't mention above is that it's the only kite I've ever ridden where depowering doesn't seem to negatively affect the the way the kite flies. Major selling point.

bennie
ACT, 1258 posts
6 Nov 2016 7:33PM
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well guys I am still getting around on a 2010 griffin argo(says a lot about there build quality), I guess its a bit of an antique these days! It has been such an awesome do it all kite for me that I reckon if and when I update this season the argo x has to be the main contender.

So my question is, what size do you recommend for a one kite quiver?. I have been using a 10m 2010 version with several boards and find I would like a little more top end, I max out around a solid 25 knots. I usually kite south coast nsw, mainly 15-25knots. I weigh 80 kegs experienced intermediate, I was thinking a 9m.

catalaussie
125 posts
6 Nov 2016 5:02PM
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Yesterday was out on the 10m in 13-28 knots (averages between 15 and 24). Kite settings were PRO bridle mode, standard shoulder attachment, fast turning and 2nd knot on rear lines attachment. I’m 68Kg and felt not underpowered or overpowered any time, while other guys were feeling overpowered on their 9m kites and some were out on 7m. Just pulled depower a little bit when getting on highest gusts. I was on the water from 15:10h to 16:25h. Here some wind reports:



Kite was all the time really stable in the air. No backstalling. Massive depower, managing gusts really well. Big boosts just pulling the bar on top of the waves. High and super floaty jumps, having time enough to enjoy the views and prepare for proper landings. Great board off tricks. Fast turning and really responsive. Enjoyed a short but GREAT session .

Give it a try if possible

catalaussie
125 posts
6 Nov 2016 5:35PM
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Select to expand quote
bennie said..
well guys I am still getting around on a 2010 griffin argo(says a lot about there build quality), I guess its a bit of an antique these days! It has been such an awesome do it all kite for me that I reckon if and when I update this season the argo x has to be the main contender.

So my question is, what size do you recommend for a one kite quiver?. I have been using a 10m 2010 version with several boards and find I would like a little more top end, I max out around a solid 25 knots. I usually kite south coast nsw, mainly 15-25knots. I weigh 80 kegs experienced intermediate, I was thinking a 9m.


Hi Bennie, just saw your message. I've only tried the 10 and 14m as not getting usually more than 30 knots and usually between 10 and 20.

Sure Chris could give you much better advice about best size and would be even much better if you could arrange a test and decide yourself.

I'm in touch with some other guys riding the 9m in Greece (Naxiand posted a previous reply on this topic), Canada, Austria, Hawaii and of course in Australia . I could try to get some especific feedback about wind range for this sizeif you are interested on it . You have also some info about wind range for each size on the Griffin website.


Otherway, for those riding actually Argos and TRX, I've tried to make an ArgoX vs Argo/TRX review so you can have an idea about different aspects on performance:


As an introduction about the new ArgoX:

Argo is a delta shape with 4 struts and pulley bridle. TRX is a C-hybrid shape with 3 struts and pulleyless bridle. The new ArgoX is a delta shape with cutted wingtips and has 3 struts and pulleyless bridle. So it has some of both previous models and Chris has been working hard on it to get the best of them (this is why no Argo or TRX 2016 kites were finally officially released). It was difficult to decide to go to the one model only option, as there were Argo and TRX lovers… . but the 2 bridle mode options really made the ArgoX an Argo and a TRX in one, giving the best of both previous models, even it was difficult to believe. Then were sure Argo and TRX lovers would be happy with the new ArgoX performance, so decided to go only with the ArgoX for 2017.


My previous experience on Griffins:

I had Argos in 2010 and 2011 and changed to TRX in 2012 and continued with TRX until now, upgrading bridles every year. I liked more the TRX because of it’s on/off power and faster turning, as I found the old Argos pulling like a truck and having less depower (better low end than TRX but lower top end) and turning slower. I know 2012-2015 Argos had much more depower and faster turning (even less than TRX), but I have not tried them so I can’t compare directly to the latest Argos (and I really can't remember exactly about my 2010/2011 Argos).

Now I have a 10 & 14 ArgoX quiver. I’ve ride both now for few sessions on different conditions (light wind / strong wind and gusty/ stable) on twintip and raceboard, so I can give some feedback.


Bridle modes:

The ArgoX comes with a default bridle on it, but there are 4 extra bridle lines in the bag. Replacing 3 bridle lines with 2 of the extra bridle lines on each side will change the bridle from default to pro mode.



It is not complicated to change from default to pro mode, just need to keep and eye not to mess bridle lines position when making the change. It can take 3-4 minutes to make the change on each side when you are used to make changes on bridles, but can take some more when you are doing this for the first time. Anyway, as I told first, it is not complicated and the changes in performance worth the time.

Really it sounds difficult to believe that the new ArgoX is doing all better than the 2 previous models and is fitting all rider levels, but should keep on mind that you can ride the same kite in 2 bridle mods, so you get really 2 kites in one. Using both bridle modes you get a great all round kite for all rider levels and styles (Griffin is not trying to sell the best kite in the market for every style, but a great allround kite option especially good in waves suitable for all rider levels). There is also an Argo bridle upgrade giving old Argos (2013-2015) nearly the ArgoX performance (obviously not exactly the same as ArgoX has 4 struts and not cutted wingtips).


ArgoX performance comparing to TRX:

- ArgoX has better low end on default and PRO bridle modes. Keeping a shape similar to Argo makes the ArgoX more powerful than TRX. I have now on my ArgoX14m the same low end that I had on my TRX 17m.

- ArgoX has more depower: I would say depower on ArgoX is similar to latest TRXs, but it is true that increased stability in higher winds (because of more bridle attachment points as the Argo) gives you extra confidence, so you can really consider this as increased depower.

- ArgoX goes better upwind: TRX was going well upwind but ArgoX goes still better. Having more constant pull and same depower helps keeping a great upwind angle going a little bit faster.

- ArgoX allows you to make higher and more floaty jumps. Once again, the Argo shape with pulleyless bridle is giving you more power and giving great pop just pulling the bar making you go high easily and giving really a good float. You had to work much more to jump on the TRX going not so high and getting not so much float. I really enjoy jumping high and floaty on the new ArgoX. All my friends trying my kites are impressed with the performance on jumps and comments are always the same: high and floaty jumps as the most noticeable aspect on ArgoX performance when comparing to previous models.

- I’m not usually riding waves, but ArgoX is better than TRX riding downwind on the raceboard, so I suppose it can be better riding down the line and drifting on a wave. I can’t say much more on this point.

- ArgoX turning speed is similar to TRX in default bridle mode and maybe a little bit faster in PRO mode. I have used always the fast turning setting and default shoulder attachment. As the kite is turning fater on the PRO bridle mode, it is especially recommended in bigger sizes, were a faster turning speed is needed. Default mode is working great on smaller sizes, as kite is turning fast enough.

- ArgoX is feeling as light as the TRX, as it has also 3 struts.


ArgoX performance comparing to Argo (as far as I can compare):

- As I said, low end on ArgoX is lower than TRX, so should be similar to Argo (that has had always better low end than TRX). Considering that ArgoX is lighter (3 struts instead of 4) and faster than the Argo (because of pulleyless bridle and cutted wing tips) , I’m quite sure the new ArgoX has at least a little bit better low end than the Argo, as being lighter and faster will be able to get more apparent wind when riding in light winds.

- ArgoX upwind ability is similar to the TRX, so I suppose is better than Argo, as I think TRX has been always going better upwind than Argos. Having more depower than Argo can help also going better upwind, as it is taking you less downind when the wind is going higher.

- I can’t say so much about jumps when comparing ArgoX to Argos performance as I can’t really remember now about my 2010/2011 Argos and I know the latest Argos (I’ve not tried them) were jumping high and floaty, but I suppose having better top end and being lighter and faster can help the ArgoX on this. Being able to ride now in stronger winds with same kite size can help getting higher and floatier jumps .



In my opinion there are no negative aspects on this kite when comparing to previous models and it is clearly the best Griffin kite I've ever ride.


Hope that helps

There are some other reviews on the Griffin forum on the Griffin website and some more comments on the reviews section.

Feel free to contact me in case you are interested on getting more detailed info about my experience on this kite. I'm always happy to help

naxiand
3 posts
7 Nov 2016 4:28PM
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Select to expand quote
bennie said..
well guys I am still getting around on a 2010 griffin argo(says a lot about there build quality), I guess its a bit of an antique these days! It has been such an awesome do it all kite for me that I reckon if and when I update this season the argo x has to be the main contender.

So my question is, what size do you recommend for a one kite quiver?. I have been using a 10m 2010 version with several boards and find I would like a little more top end, I max out around a solid 25 knots. I usually kite south coast nsw, mainly 15-25knots. I weigh 80 kegs experienced intermediate, I was thinking a 9m.





I think you should stay on 10m for the wind range you kite. I am same kg as you on a 9m ArgoX riding Shinn monk 132x41 (which is kite power hungry) and I start going upwind (holding ground) around 17 knots but I am still comfortable at 30knots :) ;)
So it depends what is more important for you to make the choice. Absolut low end or top end???

Also my finding from the 7m that I have on pro mode and second shoulder attachment is that it gets more powerful almost like an 8m and first shoulder attachment less powerful.. Would be interesting if the designer or someone else from griffin could verify this?

catalaussie
125 posts
7 Nov 2016 8:05PM
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naxiand said..

Also my finding from the 7m that I have on pro mode and second shoulder attachment is that it gets more powerful almost like an 8m and first shoulder attachment less powerful.. Would be interesting if the designer or someone else from griffin could verify this?


Hi Naxiand,

Thanks to your question I've been putting together some info about shoulder settings:

Shoulder attachment closest to the back came as “default” shoulder setting (at least on first batch kites).

Shoulder attachment closer to the center is also know as “2nd”.

Maybe would be easier if keeping closer to the center and closer to the back as standard to make it easier.

Default shoulder attachment (closer to the back of the kite):
Default keeps the kite more C shape, so has more constant pull, constant power. Kite is also turning a little bit slower on this setting.

2nd shoulder attachment (closest to the center of the kite):
2nd attachment opens up the kite more, more open C shape, more pivotal fast turning, Open C grabs a little more power, has more instant power off. So it’s good for waves. 2nd attachment point is lighter and faster, with more upwind, more depower and a little more power, but on smaller sizes it may make the kite too fast for some riders.


According to this info:

Riders wanting a more C kite feel, with slower turning, constant power, constant pull, would prefer the default (closest to the back).

Wave fiders wanting instant power off, smooth instant power on, pivotal fast turning, would prefer the 2nd attachment point (closest to the center).

Seems schools and beginners prefer the default, as its a nice constant pull, and they don't acedently spill all the power.

You get better performance, upwind, power, turning, depower on the 12m to 17m with pro bridle and 2nd attachment point setting, as on larger kites you want to turn as fast as possible.

Advanced riders liking fast kites prefer 2nd attachment.

On 10m and bigger sizes, 2nd attachment and pro bridle mode is recommended for advanced riders looking for the best performance.

For 9m and under, its personal choice: fast kite or slower kite. Is up to the rider.

Hope that helps

mattn
NSW, 66 posts
10 Nov 2016 9:12PM
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Thanks for all the responses. I'm East Coast.., not too far from you Bennie. At 75kg which two sizes do you reckon. 12 & 9? My most used kite over the past few years was a 13m Ozone. Most winds over summer are the 12-20knot NE. I usually twin tip on a 139 which is pretty comfortable for my height.

catalaussie
125 posts
10 Nov 2016 10:40PM
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Hi Mattn,

Which model is your 13m ozone? Just trying to know about wind range, as if you were mostly on 13m the last years I wouldn't go to a smaller size if you were not going overpowered and looking for the best low end.

I'm 68kg and have a 10/14 quiver and usually getting here around 10/20 knots, few days 25 and rarely 30.

Have a look at my last session wind measurements few posts above.

Your quiver will also depend on the top end and low end you want to reach.

There is Griffin ambassador in Canada riding a 9/14m ArgoX quiver and is really happy with it. Will ask him to make a review if possible as his opinion can be interesting for you.

ArgoX standard sizes are 7,9,10,12,14 and 17m, but any size between 5 and 17m can be made on preorder, so a 9/13 would be also an option.

If you can give more accurate info about your current quiver and future expectations we could try to give you the best quiver reccomendation

monsieurb
1 posts
10 Nov 2016 10:54PM
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Hi mattn

i'm new to this forum i'm from canada around montreal and the forecast here is actually very close to your's and i ride the 9m and the 14m argox at 80 kg .
I use to have a trx 12m under 15 knots with a 12m is ok if you have a big board or a racing board ,it's true the argox have a better low end but a prefer the 14m the wind range is awesome so you going to have a good power and more time on a water.

Depend if you want ride the low end or the top end .Couple of setting are available with the kite i ride on pro setting mod,kite are more on and off power and i never feel is to much or over :):).

The top end of those are really enjoyable but i also take a 14m as a light wind kite with a big board i have airush sector54 and my tt is shinn monk 132/44.

Hope i can help you with that



warwickl
NSW, 719 posts
12 Nov 2016 6:30PM
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Still happy with my 9 and 11 AX (can not say Argo as they are not for me)
I will be taking them to Merimbulla ??

bennie
ACT, 1258 posts
13 Nov 2016 11:21AM
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Select to expand quote
naxiand said..

bennie said..
well guys I am still getting around on a 2010 griffin argo(says a lot about there build quality), I guess its a bit of an antique these days! It has been such an awesome do it all kite for me that I reckon if and when I update this season the argo x has to be the main contender.

So my question is, what size do you recommend for a one kite quiver?. I have been using a 10m 2010 version with several boards and find I would like a little more top end, I max out around a solid 25 knots. I usually kite south coast nsw, mainly 15-25knots. I weigh 80 kegs experienced intermediate, I was thinking a 9m.






I think you should stay on 10m for the wind range you kite. I am same kg as you on a 9m ArgoX riding Shinn monk 132x41 (which is kite power hungry) and I start going upwind (holding ground) around 17 knots but I am still comfortable at 30knots :) ;)
So it depends what is more important for you to make the choice. Absolut low end or top end???

Also my finding from the 7m that I have on pro mode and second shoulder attachment is that it gets more powerful almost like an 8m and first shoulder attachment less powerful.. Would be interesting if the designer or someone else from griffin could verify this?


That's helpful info. If the 9 only gets you going upwind from 17 knots then I think the 10 is probably the right size for me. It sounds like the AX does not have the low end of the 2010 argo I am riding now. Seems it may have a much better top end though.

warwickl
NSW, 719 posts
14 Nov 2016 3:10PM
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Today I tested a fish surfboard (6ft x 20in wide) in a breeze mostly about 12kn but ranged 10 to 15 max. on flat water ie in a lake.
I did this using my new 9m Argo X with excellent and surprising bottom end power for a fun fast session.
When the wind was up towards 15kn I tested my Jimmy Lewis 5ft 9in x 17.75in surfboard with the 9ArgoX again excellent bottom end power. I am 76kg.
Next I'll try it in the surf for bottom end power when the wind cooperates.

catalaussie
125 posts
14 Nov 2016 3:08PM
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Hi Bennie,

Not so many can compare Argo 2010 to ArgoX 2017 face to face actually , but ArgoX bottom end should be better than Argo, as Argo bottom end has been the same or better since 2010, increasing top end a lot, and ArgoX is turning faster, so would help when looking for apparent wind.

My references (I’m 68Kg):

I had an Argo 9m 2010, but used it maybe only 3-4 times in stronger winds (>15), so I have not a good bottom end reference, as never tried to go as low as posible.

I remember riding the Argo 13.5m 2010 in 9 knots average on a raceboard but using long lines.

I’ve been riding the ArgoX 10m in 11-12 knots average comfortably also on a raceboard (I'm 68kg).

I've been riding the ArgoX 14m in 10 knots average on the raceboard and 24m lines, but still can go lower.

So I'm quite sure bottom end on ArgoX is better.

I’ve not tried bottom end on a twintip as I’m usually taking the raceboard when winds are light and the twintip only in stronger winds, but will try next time I'm able to be on the water in lightwind.

Anyway, best option would be that you could try before buy and could compare directly. Would be great if you could meet Warwickl at Merimbulla or you can try to ask for a demo.

naxiand
3 posts
14 Nov 2016 9:57PM
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Select to expand quote
bennie said...
naxiand said..

bennie said..
well guys I am still getting around on a 2010 griffin argo(says a lot about there build quality), I guess its a bit of an antique these days! It has been such an awesome do it all kite for me that I reckon if and when I update this season the argo x has to be the main contender.

So my question is, what size do you recommend for a one kite quiver?. I have been using a 10m 2010 version with several boards and find I would like a little more top end, I max out around a solid 25 knots. I usually kite south coast nsw, mainly 15-25knots. I weigh 80 kegs experienced intermediate, I was thinking a 9m.






I think you should stay on 10m for the wind range you kite. I am same kg as you on a 9m ArgoX riding Shinn monk 132x41 (which is kite power hungry) and I start going upwind (holding ground) around 17 knots but I am still comfortable at 30knots :) ;)
So it depends what is more important for you to make the choice. Absolut low end or top end???

Also my finding from the 7m that I have on pro mode and second shoulder attachment is that it gets more powerful almost like an 8m and first shoulder attachment less powerful.. Would be interesting if the designer or someone else from griffin could verify this?


That's helpful info. If the 9 only gets you going upwind from 17 knots then I think the 10 is probably the right size for me. It sounds like the AX does not have the low end of the 2010 argo I am riding now. Seems it may have a much better top end though.

To me seems right a 10m would give couple knots more. So to start 15 knots on a 10 is great. Depends also the current, if chop or not etc... For the wind range you gave is a 10m. For couple of times that you will have 25 gusting 30+ is doable. Have done it on Argonaut 10m 2014. If is solid 30 knots that means gusting minimum 35+ then 7m or 8m if you like been powered up...

catalaussie
125 posts
15 Nov 2016 1:50PM
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Select to expand quote
bennie said..
well guys I am still getting around on a 2010 griffin argo(says a lot about there build quality), I guess its a bit of an antique these days! It has been such an awesome do it all kite for me that I reckon if and when I update this season the argo x has to be the main contender.

So my question is, what size do you recommend for a one kite quiver?. I have been using a 10m 2010 version with several boards and find I would like a little more top end, I max out around a solid 25 knots. I usually kite south coast nsw, mainly 15-25knots. I weigh 80 kegs experienced intermediate, I was thinking a 9m.



According to the Griffin website info and considering that wind range depends on board, rider weight and skill level and few others, there is not a big difference between both sizes and wind range is defined as:
9m:15 to 30 knots 80kg rider 135 or surfboard
10m:14-15 to 28 knots 80kg rider 135 or surfboard

The ArgoX has better low end and higher top end than the Argo.

You said mainly 15-25 knots but would like more top end, so both sizes could be a good option. If you are mostly in 15-20 and want to get the best bottom end, go for the 10 with no doubt and if you are mostly in 20-25 and considering how often will you be in +25 would go for the 9m.

Anyway, as always, try first if possible and decide.

bennie
ACT, 1258 posts
16 Nov 2016 3:41PM
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thanks heaps for the info guys. I am going to try and get on a demo soon. Being the south coast we get a lot of very strong seabreezes, regularly 25+ so I am still thinking a 9m . I have a light wind board for the lighter days.

catalaussie
125 posts
16 Nov 2016 2:14PM
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Hi Bennie,
then the 9m should be a good option. My experience is that when looking to get better low end getting a proper lightwind board is being more helpful than getting a bigger kite size (especially when we are talking about 1m more or less) and you will feel more comfortable in strong winds with a smaller kite.
Let us know when you have tried

mc09
NSW, 2 posts
22 Nov 2016 2:30PM
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hi bennie
I was out on the weekend 9m AX, 15 to 18 knots. I'm 79kgs in that wind range i was more then happy with the power at the bottom end. another guy riding at the same level as me on a 12 m had to come in 1 minute after me as the wind backed down to 12 knots. i don't even pack my older 12 in the car any more as i find if its under 15knots i don't want to ride and the 9 works great at and above 15 knots. i have ridden the kite up to 30 knots so far and its super solid at this end of the scale too. I still haven't found the top end yet.

stuntnaz
NSW, 537 posts
26 Nov 2016 9:32PM
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The new Argo x what an awesome kite I have gone straight for the pro mod and I'm just loving it . My style is strapless wave riding and big boosting on the tt . So it's hard to find a kite that suits both these styles . But I have just found it in the Argo x , kite doesn't try to pull you away from the wave great drift with fast turning , change to the twin tip and hit some ramps and boost higher than you have before without haveing to make any changes to bridal or lines. The wind range is huge I'm 70 kg s and have ridden 10 to 30 knots with the Argo x . I did get the chance to try the 17 m Argo x as well , I have a Argo 17 m for light wind and what a big difference the Argo x turns heaps faster jumps higher I was actually really surprised.
Overall just an awesome all round kite !! And won't put a huge hole in you wallet either .

mat4613
WA, 12 posts
7 Jan 2017 11:48AM
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I have an ArgoX 9 and am 70 Kg I ride a shin monk 131 x40 ( love this board) I am an intermediate rider and am very happy with the kite. I had a 2012 Argo prior to this and I must say the improvments on back stalling and handling gusts is unbelievable this kite is a rock! As I don't consider myself a pro I am yet to try the pro bridle can anyone on here let me know if the pro bridle is better than the standard setup? Or specifically what situations would you switch from pro to default and vice versa? Nice work Griffin in making kiting more affordable without sacrificing on quality or performanc!!

warwickl
NSW, 719 posts
7 Jan 2017 7:50PM
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Best way to find out is just do it, you not be disappointed.
Just had 2 hrs on strapless surfboard using 11m AX in 15kn max on pro near perfect only slight draw back was me but had a lot of fun

catalaussie
125 posts
12 Jan 2017 2:41PM
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Select to expand quote
mat4613 said..
I have an ArgoX 9 and am 70 Kg I ride a shin monk 131 x40 ( love this board) I am an intermediate rider and am very happy with the kite. I had a 2012 Argo prior to this and I must say the improvments on back stalling and handling gusts is unbelievable this kite is a rock! As I don't consider myself a pro I am yet to try the pro bridle can anyone on here let me know if the pro bridle is better than the standard setup? Or specifically what situations would you switch from pro to default and vice versa? Nice work Griffin in making kiting more affordable without sacrificing on quality or performanc!!





Re Default VS Pro Bridle:

Most beginers and riders like a kite with constant pull and easy turning. This is the default bridle: nice constant pull, nice easy turning thats not too scary fast, good constant power, very easy to learn and cruise with.

The Pro bridle changes the kite to a much faster turning pivotal kite, with smooth power to almost full depower. This is great for more pro wave riders or freestyle riders, but not great for beginners, as they tend to over steer the kite, or accidentally over depower the kite and stop with the full depower now available.

Being an intermediate I would tell you to try and decide yourself.

Change from default to pro bridle mode takes around 4 minutes per side, so I would recommend everyone to try and decide. There is a video showing how to make the change that can be helpful when making the change for the first time:





Remember you can also play with 2 shoulder attachments, that will change also the kite performance:

Attachment closest to the back came as “default” shoulder setting (at least on first batch kites). Closer to the center is also known as “2nd”. Maybe would be easier if keeping closer to the center and closer to the back as standard to make it easier.


Default shoulder setting (closer to the back of the kite):
Default keeps the kite more C shape, so has more constant pull, constant power. Kite is also turning a little bit slower on this setting.

2nd attachment (closest to the center of the kite): 2nd attachment opens up the kite, more open C shape, more pivotal fast turning. Open C grabs a little more power, has more instant power off, so it’s good for waves. 2nd attachment point is lighter and faster, with more upwind, more depower and a little more power, but on smaller sizes it may make the kite too fast for some riders.


According to this:

Riders wanting a more C kite feel, with slower turning, constant power, constant pull, would prefer the default (closest to the back).

Wave finders wanting instant power off, smooth instant power on, pivotal fast turning, would prefer the 2nd attachment point (closest to the center).

Seems schools and beginners prefer the default, as it's a nice constant pull, and they don't accidentally spill all the power.

You get better performance, upwind, power, turning, depower on the 12m to 17m with pro bridle and 2nd attachment point setting, as on larger kites you want to turn as fast as possible.

Advanced riders liking fast kites prefer 2nd attachment.

On 10m and bigger sizes, 2nd attachment and pro bridle mode is recommended for advanced riders looking for the best performance.

For 9m and under, its personal choice: fast kite or slower kite. Is up to the rider.



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"Griffin Argo X - anyone got one." started by mattn