Once again the conversation has to be had about beginners kiting in the kiddy pool at st kilda, KBV allocated the area of the kiddy pool for advanced to intermediate riders, ei people who unhook, to ride in.

The kiddy pool is between the main beach and the pier and is flat water, yes its the most appealing for people to ride in but it is also the best place for footage and learning new unhooked tricks. So please if you dont know what unhooking is or if you dont know when someone is riding down wind to unhook dont ride in there. The main beach is for you, too many times people are in the way to unhook and just lawn mowing back and forth. If you want to do that go up closer to the pier and stay away from advanced people who are unhooking and trying new tricks.

If you just boost then technically youre not meant to be in the kiddy pool but thats just silly so please for the sack of having fun in the water, if youre not going to do anything unhooked, ride upwind closer to the pier so that people can unhook and not feel as if they are going to get hit by a kite (happened to a advanced rider two days ago).

Thanks

jrobinson said..
Once again .... (happened to a advanced rider two days ago).

Thanks

If you're referring to that idiot Jaspan, with his jumps onto the pier itself, then well deserved I say. That is not sending a good message. Maybe you should talk to Ewan and co that think they own the place.

Not being a usual at St Kilda, but looking to kite more there... two questions come to mind:

1.- What is considered an intermediate rider... plenty of people who have no intention of unhooking can still be in that group... i'm one of those... did people forget about oldscholl? not everything is wakestyle you know..

2.- Last time I looked, KBV had no real enforcement power on the place... specially for people who are not members... nothing stoping an overseas newbie who don't really know from just kiting there.

sounds to me like common sense should prevail and saying, "get out of the way because I'm trying new tricks" doesn't sounds like common sense to me.

As the sport grows the space is goingto get more crowded... fact of lifeI guess...

gkawo said..

jrobinson said..
Once again .... (happened to a advanced rider two days ago).

Thanks

If you're referring to that idiot Jaspan, with his jumps onto the pier itself, then well deserved I say. That is not sending a good message. Maybe you should talk to Ewan and co that think they own the place.

Gako,

Advocating anyone getting injured/hurt/other is atrocious. take a look at yourself mate.

gkawo said...

jrobinson said..
Once again .... (happened to a advanced rider two days ago).

Thanks

If you're referring to that idiot Jaspan, with his jumps onto the pier itself, then well deserved I say. That is not sending a good message. Maybe you should talk to Ewan and co that think they own the place.

No I was talking about a guy who was trying to kite and ended up crashing into another rider who was just riding.

"Ewan and co" don't think they own the place... It's just so many rookies enter the water so we shout at them because they sit with their kites at 12 not moving! If you can't ride with out watching your kite 24/7 it's dangerous to ride in the area.

It's fine if you understand what unhooking but you aren't doing it. It's just that level of understanding that makes it safe to actually do tricks... Which is what the kiddy pool is intended to be meant for doing tricks.

RIP Saffer

I know there are no real rules regarding the kiddies pool at St Kilda beach and i don't reckon if you are a newbie you should just be kicked out of that area but if your going to kite there don't just mow the lawns going back and forwards with your kite at twelve. But just remember the beach is for everyone.

evila said..
Not being a usual at St Kilda, but looking to kite more there... two questions come to mind:

1.- What is considered an intermediate rider... plenty of people who have no intention of unhooking can still be in that group... i'm one of those... did people forget about oldscholl? not everything is wakestyle you know..

2.- Last time I looked, KBV had no real enforcement power on the place... specially for people who are not members... nothing stoping an overseas newbie who don't really know from just kiting there.

sounds to me like common sense should prevail and saying, "get out of the way because I'm trying new tricks" doesn't sounds like common sense to me.

As the sport grows the space is goingto get more crowded... fact of lifeI guess...

The problem is that it is a small area with quite a few kiters in, most of whom are of a reasonably high standard. As a result people pass close to each other and assume the other kiters to be competent ie know the give way rules, upwind kite high, be able to hold a line, no random crashes, rapid evasive action if required. If you are there and are not competent the risk of an accident is much higher. Unhooked is obviously not the only measure, if you are doing a Darkslide for example it is a good place for it. However, there are often people just mowing the lawn (twin tip or surfboard) or doing simple sent jumps/backrolls/jump transitions, many of whom are not skilled enough to SAFELY kite in a small space with other kiters. Additionally, there is not much benefit in being there, if I am having a boost or loop session I head out wide of the boats or up next to the pier as I don't need the flat water so much (and feel that the added space is more beneficial).

As for rules you are correct that they are not enforceable. Doing simple tricks/mowing the lawn in the kiddie pool is like driving as 20km/h through a twisty road and speeding up to 100 on the straights and passing lanes. Legal, but you are being a selfish ar5e, I personally don't do it, but each to their own.

You kite at st Kilda and moan about crowds ?,

DanWilson said...
I think its also selfish saying that area is only advanced tricks....
Someone just mowing the lawn is easier to navigate than some doing wake style stuff smashing the kite into the water every 2 seconds.

Hey i understand that the ''pros'' would like there own private area where only people on c kites are allowed but I think your just gonna have to realise that your gonna have to share like EVERYONE else.

No because a rookie sits with their kite at 12 and barely going up wind... And they just ride close to the beach annoying people who are not only trying tricks but also others who are just trying to get off the beach and into the water. We don't want the kiddy pool to ourselves we just want to enjoy what flat water we have to learn new tricks without the risk of being slammed by a rookie who doesn't understand what happens when you start to load up and pop. I said before it doesn't matter if they don't unhook as long as they can identify when someone is going to unhook.

jrobinson said...

DanWilson said...
I think its also selfish saying that area is only advanced tricks....
Someone just mowing the lawn is easier to navigate than some doing wake style stuff smashing the kite into the water every 2 seconds.

Hey i understand that the ''pros'' would like there own private area where only people on c kites are allowed but I think your just gonna have to realise that your gonna have to share like EVERYONE else.

No because a rookie sits with their kite at 12 and barely going up wind... And they just ride close to the beach annoying people who are not only trying tricks but also others who are just trying to get off the beach and into the water. We don't want the kiddy pool to ourselves we just want to enjoy what flat water we have to learn new tricks without the risk of being slammed by a rookie who doesn't understand what happens when you start to load up and pop. I said before it doesn't matter if they don't unhook as long as they can identify when someone is going to unhook.

I know it's irratating trying to get around people who can't water start but ive personally never seen people at that level in there. For me though as I can go where I want I just take myself away from the newbies or kite somewhere quieter.
Telling people who in your opinion aren't good enough to kite to go and join the chaos of all the other non starters in the bay is not your call. Pretty sure you would be met by attitude.

I would class myself at intermediate level and just heading into the wake stuff, and I'd love an area with no newbies but i wouldn't want to spoil anyones confidence if they did think learning in the kiddy pool was a good idea.

jrobinson said..
Once again the conversation has to be had about beginners kiting in the kiddy pool at st kilda, KBV allocated the area of the kiddy pool for advanced to intermediate riders, ei people who unhook, to ride in.

The kiddy pool is between the main beach and the pier and is flat water, yes its the most appealing for people to ride in but it is also the best place for footage and learning new unhooked tricks. So please if you dont know what unhooking is or if you dont know when someone is riding down wind to unhook dont ride in there. The main beach is for you, too many times people are in the way to unhook and just lawn mowing back and forth. If you want to do that go up closer to the pier and stay away from advanced people who are unhooking and trying new tricks.

If you just boost then technically youre not meant to be in the kiddy pool but thats just silly so please for the sack of having fun in the water, if youre not going to do anything unhooked, ride upwind closer to the pier so that people can unhook and not feel as if they are going to get hit by a kite (happened to a advanced rider two days ago).

Thanks

I've been kiting at st. kilda for a year and have no idea where the kiddy pool is.

can you post a google map or something?

psychojoe said..


I've been kiting at st. kilda for a year and have no idea where the kiddy pool is.

can you post a google map or something?

If you're standing on the kite beach facing the bay, it's the area left of the beach café. You can also just follow you nose, it is where the stench is the worst thanks to the storm drain in combination with stagnant water.

I believe the council is aware of this situation and the risks it poses to the general public and sailing community and are planning, in conjunction with Parks Victoria and the water police, to trial a permit system effective 01 Jan 2015 where each kite-sailor gets one pre-nominated hour of a pre-nominated time and day of the week, regardless of conditions, if you miss your time you miss out, if there is no wind you miss out. This is to ensure that there are no more than 10 kite-sailors at any one time in the area. Conditions of the permit will mean that you will follow all sailing rules (eg. starboard), and the permit will automatically be revoked if the kite sailor releases their kite at any time and cannot access their control bar.

Permits can be applied for in advance but not on the day (except during the introductory period), and will be easily done via the website for a nominal fee and can be downloaded onto your smartphone or printed out at home or work. You will also need to provide evidence of third party liability insurance and you will need to give the color and brand of your kite to apply for the permit. Anyone going out or coming in after a kite without a permit will be automatically fined. Obviously Euros who cannot speak English and have no fixed address will have their kites confiscated under Victorian anti-hoon legislation. They will also have their vans impounded if they have offensive, immoral or anti-social messages. Furthermore the wearing of boardshorts over a wetsuit will be deemed indecent exposure and fines will be issued.

I understand they are going to bring in the public transport PSO's (who are a bit quiet at the moment) to add some manpower to enforce the permits during the busy summer period. Further more the water police will be notified if any kite-sailors are doing a "runner" and will be swiftly plucked out out the bay. I understand water police have the power to incapacitate a kite by lacerating the air bladders using one of any penetrative arms available and have been well trained in this exercise. With the recent announcement of the retirement of the Chief Commissioner of police who always cautioned moderation, the police have taken a more forceful approach towards anti-social behavior and will no longer tolerate minor misdemeanours.

The St Kilda LSC will also have authority to chase down wayward kite-sailors with their new Jet Skis, but are limited to cutting flying lines only.

This law was passed as part of the by-laws allowed to councils under state legislation. If you have any concerns please contact your local member of parliament. However, if your local member is from the Greens they will have no idea what you are talking about so you might need to buy them a chai skinny soy latte first then they still will have no idea but at least they will let you have a whinge.

HighzaKite said..
I believe the council is aware of this situation and the risks it poses to the general public and sailing community and are planning, in conjunction with Parks Victoria and the water police, to trial a permit system effective 01 Jan 2015 where each kite-sailor gets one pre-nominated hour of a pre-nominated time and day of the week, regardless of conditions, if you miss your time you miss out, if there is no wind you miss out. This is to ensure that there are no more than 10 kite-sailors at any one time in the area. Conditions of the permit will mean that you will follow all sailing rules (eg. starboard), and the permit will automatically be revoked if the kite sailor releases their kite at any time and cannot access their control bar.

Permits can be applied for in advance but not on the day (except during the introductory period), and will be easily done via the website for a nominal fee and can be downloaded onto your smartphone or printed out at home or work. You will also need to provide evidence of third party liability insurance and you will need to give the color and brand of your kite to apply for the permit. Anyone going out or coming in after a kite without a permit will be automatically fined. Obviously Euros who cannot speak English and have no fixed address will have their kites confiscated under Victorian anti-hoon legislation. They will also have their vans impounded if they have offensive, immoral or anti-social messages. Furthermore the wearing of boardshorts over a wetsuit will be deemed indecent exposure and fines will be issued.

I understand they are going to bring in the public transport PSO's (who are a bit quiet at the moment) to add some manpower to enforce the permits during the busy summer period. Further more the water police will be notified if any kite-sailors are doing a "runner" and will be swiftly plucked out out the bay. I understand water police have the power to incapacitate a kite by lacerating the air bladders using one of any penetrative arms available and have been well trained in this exercise. With the recent announcement of the retirement of the Chief Commissioner of police who always cautioned moderation, the police have taken a more forceful approach towards anti-social behavior and will no longer tolerate minor misdemeanours.

The St Kilda LSC will also have authority to chase down wayward kite-sailors with their new Jet Skis, but are limited to cutting flying lines only.

This law was passed as part of the by-laws allowed to councils under state legislation. If you have any concerns please contact your local member of parliament. However, if your local member is from the Greens they will have no idea what you are talking about so you might need to buy them a chai skinny soy latte first then they still will have no idea but at least they will let you have a whinge.

Highza, I've always known you were a conservative rich kid snob, but this takes the cake! And the tone you say it Implies you agree with this rubbish? Seriously? Are kiters going to accept the Nanny State now putting its grubby hands into kite surfer's pockets? Another revenue raising stunt.

No way jose!!

Highza is joking right? I've never trusted Greeks. Ugh!!!

Who remembers when they were getting their kite lessons a few years back that one of the first things to have pointed out was the "safe" and "where to ride" areas. This is a lesson 1 item! I know as an IKO instructor myself that it is in the teaching material that showing where to kite is a topic that needs to be taught in lesson 1. It really does come back to COMMON SENSE.

And for all of you people who don't seem to know or remember who or what KBV are talking about:
www.kbv.com.au/kbvmain/kbv-locationview.php?locid=103.htm

"Cautions
Beginners might have to contend with high numbers of kiters and shold avoid straying into the experienced kiting area east of the general area. More experienced kiters need to keep clear of the moored boats and no kiting is allowed within 50 meters of the St Kilda pier and the Royal Melbourne Yacht Club launching ramp. "

KBV are around to make our sport SAFE for not only beginners, not only advanced.. EVERYONE.. So it keeps coming back to beginners being in the "kiddie pool" causing crashes with other kites, scaring people on the beach as they crash their kites etc. The last thing we all want is that all kiting is banned at beaches.. Look at other states, it happens. St Kilda council are very kind to the kiting community with really the only "out of bounds" area being in front of the sea baths. So lets keep our kite beaches open and respect each of our own experience levels.