Hi Fernando and Jen! Really glad you guys had fun with your lessons yesterday.
I personally use ONeill Superfreak 3mm booties and haven't yet had a single urchin go through, although that didn't stop the one that i sat on! I've had those booties for 4 years now and were the best money i've spent... especially given i'm in the water almost every day at the moment teaching. The ones to look out for are the ones that have a nice thick double lining on the bottom of them. To test them out i usually bend the soles of them; if they feel like they've got some nice solid rubber in there they should be good. I'm pretty sure the Mystic booties have the same good thick soles as my ONeills.

As for buying gear, there are pro's and con's to new or second hand.
Harness - new. You only sell a harness if it doesn't fit, is uncomfortable or is falling apart. Harnesses mould to your body after a couple of uses so your better off spending a little more and getting a properly fitting comfy one for you.
Board - either new or second hand. Your first board is just a board. As long as it's a kiteboard thats the right size (~136x42 for you guys) then it'll be fine. After a season or two on the water then you might like to shop around for something specific, but until then, almost anything the right size will do. That said things like footpads and straps do wear out and board can weaken and snap if old and had a rough life.
Kite - here's where it gets tricky...
Second hand
+ It's cheaper
- It's condition is unknown, which is worse if your inexperienced as you don't know what to look out for
- It doesn't come with any support
- Possibly beaten up and worn out kite which could end up costing heaps to repair or fix just to keep it holding air and flying
- Older safety systems can be a bit iffy
If you do go second hand then make sure it's newer than '08 and looks like its in good condition, no repairs and holds air when pumped up.

New
+ It's new
+ You get after sales support from the shop you bought it from
+ It's got a warranty
+ Brand new safety system (really can't stress this enough, things have changed a lot even in the last 3-4 years)
- Costs you a bit more up front, but will last longer
My recommendation if you want the benefits of new without the price is to try and find a kite that's on clearance from the previous season (2011 model). If you buy it from a shop then you'll still get the after sales support but it won't be as expensive as a brand new 2012 model kite.

Volantin said...

Thank you so much Koma! That is excellent advice, especially the kite gear. Our trainer Jason said the same thing. About the only thing that can be 2nd hand is the board and clothing, but the harness, kite and guides should all be new for peace of mind. I am sourcing the booties you recommended but there is no shop in Melbourne that stock them at the moment. I tried Mordy and Surf n Skate in the the cbd. Rombus however have a similar brand with a decent soul, so I am going to check them out today. Thanks again dude.

Yeah, that Jason guy really knows his stuff. We have a lot in common.
Take a look at the booties in at KSS. They've got the Mystic ones that a lot of people in Altona have been buying recently. The ONeill Superfreak ones i got from down in Torquay many many years ago.

Hi Fernando and Jennifer, Some great advice from Koma on the virtues of buying new and second hand. Couple of additional points to consider...

Second hand kites will usually come with lines that are stretched, depending the age of the kite, as as suggested I would not go further back than 2009, the lines will need to be either adjusted or retuned to the correct length or you will need a new set of lines probably in the order of $200

If buying a second hand board don't go too old. Old boards usually had no flex and did not have threaded inserts for the foot strap screws. If you need to change foot straps you may not be able to tiighten up the screws again. Even with a newer board, ask the seller if you can take the straps off to check that the inserts aren't stripped or damaged.

Personally I would look at second hand on seabreeze long before I would ever consider eBay

The only thing I'll correct you on is about Altona being a great place to learn the sport. The beach is narrow with tree's and power lines behind it. That puts it way out of the ideal territory.

We've had a number of incidents with new kiters putting their kites into trees and powerlines, and this tends to go down badly with the community because it happens at around 6-8pm, just when they're having dinner. The cost of these can be pretty high if the guys know who you are. Last I heard one of these call outs is about $5K a pop.

My general recommendation is that kiters should not be at altona until they can comfortably go upwind.

^^^ No, it's not just cowboys. It's people who simply don't yet have the skills, reflexes, understanding of the wind window, and ability to safely navigate around other kiters and beach users and launch/land just upwind of trees, road and powerlines.

The worst of the incidents I witnessed last summer involved a very nice and humble guy. He was no cowboy, but he had a lapse of concentration, sent his kite through the window, couldn't get to his quick release, and got dragged head first into the concrete wall as his kite sailed into a house and when he finally released, his bar wrapped the power lines before being burnt/dragged further downwind.

This happened because he was a beginner, not because he was a cowboy. I don't condone cowboys, but nor do I condone beginners at Altona, even if they claim to be careful. If they're truly careful, they'l learn somewhere else.

^^ +2

^^^^ +++ 10

As awesome as it looks, it's not a spot for beginners. When things go wrong, it happens fast. Before you know it, you're up the beach, in the tree, over the fence.

It's more so beginners that will see this spot regulated/closed, rather than any cowboy... 2c

+1000 for safety. Hell yeah... I am not going just fly into the crowd. Thanks for all the advice anyway. I think this thread should now quietly ease off. Enough of me... Back to the regs. Cheers

Hey Saf. Thanks for those words of wisdom. Ok. Well I was lead to believe it was safe for beginners by those that 'know'. Obviously they don't know! So I ask again, where can a beginner go? You all had to start somewhere? So help me out here then guys. Where to next? Thanks in advance. But I am not sure about this 30mtr wide beach zone. To me Altona has at least 100mtrs berth to play with. Or did I misread you? Cheers

Volantin, the most popular (and crowded) spot to learn is St Kilda. There is a big expanse of beach there. Once you master the basics, including the safety drills and getting going (maybe 10 sessions), I think you could kite at Altona. Once you can kite out and stay away from the beach it minimises the risks of errors resulting in kites + kiters hitting objects etc.

If in doubt, chat to an experienced kiter there (say 50+ sessions) and get their advice and assistance to launch, and don't try to self-land there.

Launching and landing are the most dangerous parts of any session.

Well, I yelled at a guy at Altona today. He wasn't a complete beginner, but he was mowing the lawn and disregarding right-of-way in the prime flat water trick strip. I'm not proud that I yelled at him, but nor am I OK with the number of gumbies who are congesting the joint because they are ignorant or incompetent or both.

So, Volantin and other real new newbies, St K in a Southerly is your best bet. Maybe there are other spots south of Altona where roads, power lines and public aren't a factor, but I don't know about 'em so you'll need to seek them via other channels.

And for beginners who can stay upwind but that's about it (like my unfortunate victim this arvo), please, if you see a circuit of guys doing tricks, it's probably because there's a prime spot that they're using, and you cruising through the middle with your kite up high is just going to piss people off because it reduces the usable width of the section by about a line length (as the guys doing tricks will have their kites low to start with, and need room to drop them just in case).

More generally, if the only guys riding in a certain section of water are considerably more skilled than you, there's probably a reason they're there. While it's fun to watch, please keep clear unless you are competent to navigate the space without disrupting the circuit.

Two rules that have been especially disregarded in my last couple of sessions at Altona, much to my chagrin, are:

1) If you're passing downwind of somebody (and therefore they're passing upwind of you) lower your kite! If you can't do this then practise in open water. Go ride with your kite just two metres above the water. Learning how to do this will accelerate your kiting anyway and help you avoid a spray from frustrated others.

2) If you're following relatively closely behind somebody (which you should avoid as much as possible anyway) and they get to a point where they have to turn around to avoid running up the beach, turn around before they do or as soon as they initiate a turn. Don't chase them up the beach. At Altona, if someone is pinching up towards the Apex end and you're up their cloaca, it's pretty obvious when they'll have to turn to keep their kite a decent distance from the trees. As the following kiter you are obliged to give them room to tack back out, so turn earlier, or I'll yell at you. (For the guy in question today, who seemed genuinely bewildered, I hope that makes it clearer and that we can share the space happily in future.)

It's not localism (I can't claim that at Altona anyway these days), it's about 1)safety, 2)retaining access, and 3)basic etiquette so that those who've paid their dues can have a decent crack at the prime sections while beginners can keep their kites at 12 and work out the basics at the edges, rather than in the middle, of these sections.

Well now I am convinced! See! It wasn't that hard now was it? ;-)
So StKilda is it then! Woohooo can't wait. But can you tell me... That stretch between the end of the esplanade at port melb and the yarra river mouth. Is that an ok place to start, or is it too face on with the common S or SW winds? Awesome thread and thank you for all the advice. Cheers.

koma said...
I personally use ONeill Superfreak 3mm booties and haven't yet had a single urchin go through, although that didn't stop the one that i sat on!

Ha ha, that's hillarious... mostly coz I get them in my arse all the time too...


As for booties... nah!!! They are too much in the way when you kite... too hard to slip in and out of pads... I adopted advice of kiter buddy at altona and just ignore the urchins... when you get them in your feet they tingle for 10 minutes, then you stop feeling them afterwards. I believe in time the skin pushes them out, but i'm not 100% sure as i always forget to check...