New to the sport - apex park Altona

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Travymac
Travymac
5 posts
5 posts
9 Feb 2014 5:08pm
Just woundering if anybody could give me some tips on the right wind direction, wind speed ,tide ect. With a 10m kite
Cheers trav
Saffer
Saffer
VIC
4501 posts
VIC, 4501 posts
9 Feb 2014 8:42pm
Travymac said..

Just woundering if anybody could give me some tips on the right wind direction, wind speed ,tide ect. With a 10m kite
Cheers trav


Will repeat what as been said multiple times on here. Altona is not for beginners in any wind direction.

Why? Because the beaches are too narrow and offer no room for error.

Don't believe me? There are two people in comas as a result of accidents and that's only in the last two years. It doesn't take into account broken feet. damaged kites etc.

If you don't know what wind speed is suitable for your 10m kite. You definitely should not be kiting at Altona!

KSSALTONA
KSSALTONA
VIC
207 posts
VIC, 207 posts
9 Feb 2014 8:46pm
Travymac said...
[br]Just woundering if anybody could give me some tips on the right wind direction, wind speed ,tide ect. With a 10m kite
Cheers trav


Sw-east works, wind strength depends on your level, mid to high tide is best but you can go out the back and play in the wind swell on low tide.
Drop by KSS if you have any questions on where to go.
64 bylth street in altona.
Saffer is talking about one location in altona (which is the main one). There are some really safe spots to kite in altona so drop by the shop.
Travymac
Travymac
5 posts
5 posts
9 Feb 2014 6:14pm
Saffer said...
Travymac said..

Just woundering if anybody could give me some tips on the right wind direction, wind speed ,tide ect. With a 10m kite
Cheers trav


Will repeat what as been said multiple times on here. Altona is not for beginners in any wind direction.

Why? Because the beaches are too narrow and offer no room for error.

Don't believe me? There are two people in comas as a result of accidents and that's only in the last two years. It doesn't take into account broken feet. damaged kites etc.

If you don't know what wind speed is suitable for your 10m kite. You definitely should not be kiting at Altona!




Just asking a question champ, no need to get defensive . I was also advised to go here by an instructor
Travymac
Travymac
5 posts
5 posts
9 Feb 2014 6:15pm
KSSALTONA said...
Travymac said...
[br]Just woundering if anybody could give me some tips on the right wind direction, wind speed ,tide ect. With a 10m kite
Cheers trav


Sw-east works, wind strength depends on your level, mid to high tide is best but you can go out the back and play in the wind swell on low tide.
Drop by KSS if you have any questions on where to go.
64 bylth street in altona.
Saffer is talking about one location in altona (which is the main one). There are some really safe spots to kite in altona so drop by the shop.


Thanks mate, I will. Pop in during the week
sirstomp
sirstomp
VIC
98 posts
VIC, 98 posts
10 Feb 2014 6:59pm
Bit of the old North Korean style censorship going on in this thread...

Saffer was making a bloody good case for discouraging beginners from kiting at Altona... even supported by an official statement and map from KBV!

And yet posts are removed, rendering yet another spicy Seabreeze thread more vanilla than jalepeno.

Its a damn shame, because by removing such advice and shutterring up critical thinking, we will no doubt see further kook outs at Altona, and a step closer to a permanent ban.

Ps. I would hope the fact that KSS being a financial sponsor of Seabreeze hasn't been a factor in post-removal?
tarzan
tarzan
VIC
133 posts
VIC, 133 posts
10 Feb 2014 8:57pm
Amazing. I thought Saffer was raising some really solid points. Kind of sad really. Standby for this comment to be deleted.
Saffer
Saffer
VIC
4501 posts
VIC, 4501 posts
10 Feb 2014 9:30pm
tarzan said..

Amazing. I thought Saffer was raising some really solid points. Kind of sad really. Standby for this comment to be deleted.


I actually asked for them to be deleted. Had a chat to Steve and he's got permission to teach at another location so if he is going to push beginners to go there where they are under supervision, it's better than having them at the main beach.

The original comments about the main beach stand though. Beginners should not be kiting there.
SaltySinus
SaltySinus
VIC
960 posts
VIC, 960 posts
11 Feb 2014 10:47am
Just to add my perspective (which is really pro or anti Altona for learners, just my experience):

I distinctly remember when I was not a beginner, but not very good*. Conditions were good and I was tacking back and forth fairly merrily. As the wind was dying I was struggling to stay up wind, so was getting pushed further and further into a corner with rock wall one side, and trees the next. As I was trying to tack out, I was just waiting for the kite to snag a tree,... I think in reality, I was much further away than that. But if I had more experience, I'd have self landed the kite on the water a good distance from the beach and gathered it up and waded to shore.**



* - Note, I'm still not very good.

** - which I did on Sunday as I was over powered.
suniboy21
suniboy21
VIC
1090 posts
VIC, 1090 posts
11 Feb 2014 10:50am
SaltySinus said..

Just to add my perspective (which is really pro or anti Altona for learners, just my experience):

I distinctly remember when I was not a beginner, but not very good*. Conditions were good and I was tacking back and forth fairly merrily. As the wind was dying I was struggling to stay up wind, so was getting pushed further and further into a corner with rock wall one side, and trees the next. As I was trying to tack out, I was just waiting for the kite to snag a tree,... I think in reality, I was much further away than that. But if I had more experience, I'd have self landed the kite on the water a good distance from the beach and gathered it up and waded to shore.**



* - Note, I'm still not very good.

** - which I did on Sunday as I was over powered.


*I*
=
SaltySinus
SaltySinus
VIC
960 posts
VIC, 960 posts
11 Feb 2014 12:00pm
suniboy21 said..

SaltySinus said..

Just to add my perspective (which is really pro or anti Altona for learners, just my experience):

I distinctly remember when I was not a beginner, but not very good*. Conditions were good and I was tacking back and forth fairly merrily. As the wind was dying I was struggling to stay up wind, so was getting pushed further and further into a corner with rock wall one side, and trees the next. As I was trying to tack out, I was just waiting for the kite to snag a tree,... I think in reality, I was much further away than that. But if I had more experience, I'd have self landed the kite on the water a good distance from the beach and gathered it up and waded to shore.**



* - Note, I'm still not very good.

** - which I did on Sunday as I was over powered.


*I*
=


Hmmmm... good point. I clearly had a lot of extra vowels, didn't I? I won't do it again. I have learned my lesson. I is sorry.
Saffer
Saffer
VIC
4501 posts
VIC, 4501 posts
11 Feb 2014 1:24pm
sirstomp said..

Bit of the old North Korean style censorship going on in this thread...

Saffer was making a bloody good case for discouraging beginners from kiting at Altona... even supported by an official statement and map from KBV!

And yet posts are removed, rendering yet another spicy Seabreeze thread more vanilla than jalepeno.

Its a damn shame, because by removing such advice and shutterring up critical thinking, we will no doubt see further kook outs at Altona, and a step closer to a permanent ban.

Ps. I would hope the fact that KSS being a financial sponsor of Seabreeze hasn't been a factor in post-removal?


No conspiracy here. I chatted to Steve yesterday and he has council approval for another area away from the main beach.

Steve is constructing an updated map which shows the new location away from the main beach and the idea is to make sure that beginners are aware that they cannot kite at the main beach.
dp89
dp89
VIC
18 posts
VIC, 18 posts
11 Feb 2014 1:33pm
So does the kite company with the big signed van have permission/permits to teach off the bank at apex park?? I thought Steve had exclusive permission.
suniboy21
suniboy21
VIC
1090 posts
VIC, 1090 posts
11 Feb 2014 1:33pm
Trouble is Safe, that beginners flock like seagulls to where ever there are crowds.
Majority of incidents are launching and landing/ lack of leashes.
Keep it simple, Always assisted launching and landing.
Always wear a leash!
And don't get lessons by teachers doing the poo stance!

Glad I moved out of Melbourne! I get excited when I see another kite within 5km!
Big eeeZeee
Big eeeZeee
NSW
1100 posts
NSW, 1100 posts
11 Feb 2014 1:40pm
dp89 said..

So does the kite company with the big signed van have permission/permits to teach off the bank at apex park?? I thought Steve had exclusive permission.


Kite republic got a permit too
Saffer
Saffer
VIC
4501 posts
VIC, 4501 posts
11 Feb 2014 2:02pm
Yeah, KR also but we do know for a fact that a rider wearing a red helmet does not have a permit to instruct in both the main beach or the new area.

I think there is good and bad. I'm yet to be convinced that riders or beginners can be adequately educated because most of them will flock where the crowds are.

The bad


Beginners see Altona as a via option and don't bother to understand where they should go so perhaps we can get info out to the shops/instructors on where they should be going.

Beginners storm the instruction area and due to overcrowding push into the normal area

You may get the usual mouthful from some of the more attitude prone individuals who refuse to move to the right area or want to kite with their mates without understand the dangers.

The Good

Maybe I'm being overly optimistic and maybe they do the right thing and go to the right area but given the history at StK, I don't see this happening.
Travymac
Travymac
5 posts
5 posts
11 Feb 2014 2:04pm
Alright I'm learning remember..... Where is a safe spot?
KSSALTONA
KSSALTONA
VIC
207 posts
VIC, 207 posts
11 Feb 2014 5:21pm
d
Travymac said..
Alright I'm learning remember..... Where is a safe spot?


Drop into the shop and I will point you in the right direction.
Once I have done the map I will chuck it up.
chino
chino
VIC
166 posts
VIC, 166 posts
11 Feb 2014 6:48pm
KSSALTONA said..

d
Travymac said..
Alright I'm learning remember..... Where is a safe spot?


Drop into the shop and I will point you in the right direction.
Once I have done the map I will chuck it up.


Moral of the story - Dont kite at main beach. Go to Steve, get a map and some advice, don't get lessons that involve fishing the instructor's kite out of the tree.

You'll progress faster, be happier, and find the more experienced locals much more willing to lend a hand.
surpher
surpher
VIC
81 posts
VIC, 81 posts
11 Feb 2014 7:35pm
don't get lessons that involve fishing the instructor's kite out of the tree.


That's exactly what I told my friends asking me where to go get good and safety conscious lessons. I also pointed in both directions.

Kites flying off into trees... Kind of a MO for one of 'em. Every time we were on the same spot... there was an instructors kite up in the air... or a sailing boat. The stats are improving as I'm trying to avoid 'em
Kazan
Kazan
QLD
699 posts
QLD, 699 posts
13 Feb 2014 7:55am
So many rules and regulations in Vicco. Argghhh. Kills the sport really and it seems to have become now the pasttime of nepotists where beginners or 'noobs' are just wasting space. You guys need to ease up on the DON'T KITE HERE OR THERE approach. Yeah, yeah, i know why you do it, but you should approach it with some loveeeee guys.
Loftywinds
Loftywinds
QLD
2060 posts
QLD, 2060 posts
13 Feb 2014 8:05am
I learnt at Altona and on the main beach before I nailed my water starts up here in QLD. Never the less, Altona is actually safer at Apex Park. It's shallow and swampy, but out the back you have at least 200mt of waist deep water before the beach so there is plenty of room to practice. And the sand bar is even better as there is no one around. All that's needed really is a sign in big letters... BEGINNERS PLEASE LAUNCH AT APEX PARK ---> THAT WAY
Just watch out for blue ring octopuses munching on urchins!
KiwiDave
KiwiDave
VIC
192 posts
VIC, 192 posts
13 Apr 2014 9:49am
I am a beginner and went out at Altona for the first time yesterday. I had fun and built some skills but have a few observations.

When I got to Altona and saw so many kites out, it freaked me out a bit and I nearly left my kit in the car.

The first thing I did was talk to one of the locals asking "is there an area that is best for beginners". I was told "no, it is all good ... its best at high tide". So I headed for what looked like the least crowded spot near the yellow marker at the east end of the beach. If I had received the advice that Apex point (west end of the beach?) was for beginners I certainly would have taken the advice.

I was a bit disappointed to see so many people self launching and landing their kites. There were so many people around, so why would you do it? One bloke crashed their kite into me and the passing mother/children/pram. No harm done, but why take the risk? He was clearly no beginner. Why didn't he ask me for help to land? and it was low tide so there was heaps of room to do it further from the pedestrian path.

I don't understand why people say in this thread Altona is best at high tide? With the low tide yesterday the beach was so wide. Perfect? And there is still plenty of shallow water compared to Mentone or Hampton where I have been sailing in the SW/W.
Macster
Macster
VIC
276 posts
VIC, 276 posts
13 Apr 2014 6:19pm
Altona is my favourite spot in the bay for water conditions and proximity to the city (apart from Rosebud when that actually cranks). I agree that the main beach is a bit dodgy for learners but further down in the lagoon on mid-high tide is great. I've met Steve from KSS, he's a good guy and I've also made friends with a couple of decent Altona regulars.

The sad reality about Altona (in my humble opinion), is that of all the kiting spots in Melbourne it features the most rudest and non-helpful kiters of all. Why do people self launch and land there? Because many of the regulars don't like to help you out. More often than not, when you ask for a hand you are either ignored or greeted with a frown and grunt or worse.

All the fear of losing the right to kite at Altona because of learners making mistakes and hurting themselves and others, I think the intermediate and advanced kiters should step up too and stop taking unnecessary risks on the beach.

Those in this thread and indeed others warning "Learners" away from Altona, I hope you are leading by example when it comes to safe launching and landing practices.

castill0jf
castill0jf
VIC
563 posts
VIC, 563 posts
13 Apr 2014 8:31pm
I kite at Altona all the time and all the people I know at Alton are nice and ready to help. I always self launching and If the winds are not 20 knots I will self land. It is easy to self launch. cheers Jose
HappyG
HappyG
VIC
294 posts
VIC, 294 posts
14 Apr 2014 5:09pm
Its been said before. If you are a beginner don't kite at the main beach whatever tide.

If you can't self land and launch don't kite there. (Thats usually a pretty good indication of skill level).

I am a local and I land and launch people all of the time. The guys who don't do it are not LOCALS.

Altona is a cool place KSS is trying to do a good thing here.

Kite republic should not be teaching at Altona if they do not have Council approval and a permit.
HaydenDekker
HaydenDekker
54 posts
54 posts
15 Apr 2014 6:51am
Sea urchins suck too! If your a beginner be mentally prepared to step on them. Stick to St.Kilda until your tacking. Why? because your guaranteed to crash badly and when you do you want deep water. A lot of beginners are drawn to the lovely wave free shallows of Altona and after an hour they have sprained/dislocated/broken an ankle,knee,arm,neck. If your a beginner at Altona you need a very experienced rider with you, who's not kiting.

But have fun where ever you go!
Loftywinds
Loftywinds
QLD
2060 posts
QLD, 2060 posts
15 Apr 2014 2:03pm
HaydenDekker said..

Sea urchins suck too!


Are they back at Altona - again!? Damn I hate those things.

markey
markey
VIC
75 posts
VIC, 75 posts
15 Apr 2014 5:51pm
The muscle beds are far worse at altona. Plenty of guys required stitches this year because of them
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