That looks fantastic!! Can you explain a bit more about how they are adjusted, specifically for tow in - tow out?

If you have a C5 (or any L/Y) with axle beams of this nature, ie. swept back, the best way to correct toe-in/toe out, is to realign the steel plates that the axle blocks are bolted to. I think I saw in one of the C5 plans that these plates were only about 3mm thick?? The method I would do this would be to weld a plate, 8mm thick, onto the thinner one on each axle beam. Then check the alignment of the plates with a straight edge. (Hey Joe, thats a loooongg straight edge). No problem, try using the concrete floor of your garage/workshop. No doubt you will be laying the plates on the floor and standing the frame upright to align and weld them. However, not all floors are perfectly flat and the plates can still be misaligned. We definately need a good straight edge and you just might have one close by. Most garages built today are errected from a steel framed kit. For a near perfect alignment, the steel columns can certainly be used as a "straight edge". These columns are very accurately made and are very straight. The ones in my garage/workshop are 50 x 200 and are a "C" in section. If you have these in your garage/workshop, lift the mainframe up to a horizontal position (the axle beams are vertical) and hold it against one of the columns. The frame can be held up with a rope tied to the roof purlins and a feeler gauge can then be used to measure the alignment error. A small difference at the end of each plate will mean a severe errror in toe-in/toe-out. "Small" would be anything up to 15 thou. (0.015"). If the plate is 130mm long, this equates to a toe-in of 2mm on a wheel 400mm in dia. (This error is proportional, eg. .030" equals 4mm toe-in) Two mm?? Thats nothing! Well it all depends on what degree of refinement or accuracy you yourself will accept. For pefectionist me, that a bad error. The proper way to correct this error in the plates, is to file them both flat and keep checking for alignment on the column. (Huh! FILE 15 thou. off an area that big????) yes, no problem, I did it all the time as an apprentice toolmaker. If you have a helper to hold/swing the frame against the column it will be much easier to do. The bottom line is, how much misalignment will you yourself accept?

Kody
I do apollogize for mixing metric units with the proper Imperial units.

In the drawing you offered (and please feel free to use any of these drawings and alter them) the 1/2" NF section is redundent. I would keep the axle as per the original drawing and simply add shims/spacers under the inner block (or outer block as the case may be). The limit in size to open the bolt holes was governed by the closeness of the bolt hole to the 1/2" stud and or the 22MM dia. axle. This "closeness" was decided on in the desire to keep everything small and compact. The center distance of the two bolt holes can certainly be increased to suit the situation. The holes for the 22mm axle and the 1/2" stud can also be made slightly bigger to accomodate canting of the axle. Make the holes too big and you will lose the benifit of packing with shims/spacers. This is why I would recomend angling the bottom faces to suit and drilling the bolt holes a little bigger. Bigger bolt holes can also influence the angle of camber if the blocks move a little. I would concider the amount of camber change to be negligible. I will play around with the CAD and see if I can develop an ajustable axle using a bolt as you suggested, to achieve true alignment.

Kody

Hi hillsie
This is the simplest design I could come up with. For me personally, I would never consider making this whatsoever. The biggest problem is the sharp corner stress point as shown. I dont like the idea of such a high working load applied to the corner. The thread on the end was changed to 5/8" NF and the blocks raised to enable a ring spanner to be used. The red bolts adjust the axle movement and the green bolts hold it all to the 10mm plate. The bolts used are 10mm Cap Head screws. These would work extremely well in this situation. I hope this is a help for you.
"I wasn't there officer, it wasn't me, I know nuthin about it, I didn't do it, wasn't me, I was somewhere else."
enjoy Phil,
Kody

with swept rear axles the axles will tend to toe out over time due to vibrationas you sail. . the Usual solution is to have an adjustment jig on the beach ,loosen the axle mountings and rotate the axles to correct , then tighten the axles back up

A large radius would be a help but being a radius, it would still have a point (line) contact the same as the original corner. The contact point has simply shifted to approximately the center of the block. The only way to achieve a true seat is to shape the two blocks to the correct angles and heights so the centerline lies in the correct plane when the two blocks are bolted down onto the flat surface.
Which brings me to ask a question if I may. Why have you requested such detail as described in the drawings shown above? Do you have a problem with your L/yacht?

Joe

I just found the previous two posts.
The axles can be rotated without any problem within the blocks as described. This rotation will have no affect on toe-in/toe-out. The axle beams are fixed by a key, so they are fully rigid. If I leave the key out, the axle beams can be rotated to any position which will alter the toe-in but the camber will also change.
How far out are your two axles in symetry? What is the difference in the camber of the two wheels? I am certain I can design a relativley simple means to correct the toe-in/out and maintain the same camber of both wheels.
Kody

when refering to axles Im talking about the big long tubes the bits with the wheels are what I refer to as axle or wheel stubs

By rotating the axle,having a mild bend in the stub axle and rotating it, you should be able to adjust both alignment and camber with practice.

Hillsie,
I have some questions for you. What are your axle tubes made of? Are they aluminium or steel? Have they (or it) become bent from overstressing the frame? (no, you wouldn't do that would you? ) How much has the axle tube/s bent? can you measure the bend from a straight-edge placed on the side of the tube (or a string line)? How far would you like to move the stub axle in degrees or distance from a fixed point to achieve true alignment? Or, how many mm's are the wheels toed'-out and at what diameter can/did you measure this error? To straighten a bent (steel) axle tube, could you not do so by heat-shrinks?
I had a severe brain attack this morning while waiting for my sweetie to finish her libary work this morning at church. I just might? have a great design for an ajustable stub axle to correct toe-out. As usual, a lathe is required to make the parts (I can hear many say already - "Oh, no, what a pain! "Kody! I dont have a lathe!" ) The basic design looks great and I will further pursue the details through the CAD to perfect it. At this point, I am quite excited about it.

Kody

Hi Hillsie,
Here is the new idea. I hope you can understand the drawing. The stub axle is machined from 32mm square 4320 steel. The pivot pin is 14mm dia and again made from 4320 which is a very tough and high tensile steel. The axle pivots in a "C" shaped bracket (10mm) and the pivots are reinforced to withstand the pounding.
Under the axle on the left (but not shown) would be an 8mm "ledge" to support the cantilevered axle. This would take a huge load off the pivot pin and bearings. I would use bronze shell plain bearings in the pivot points fitted with grease nipples. Adjustment is via the two 10mm cap head screws. The clamping screw sits in a half round bar and remains aligned with the clamp screw as the axle pivots for toe-out adjustment. Yes, there is a lot of fiddley work but nearly all of it can be produced with a lathe. Most of the hand work is hacksawing the parts out. This may just be the design you are searching for. You will also need some special "Allyiron" welding rods to attach it to your axle beams.
If you made this, would you change the axle beams to steel???

Kody

hills said...

Wow, that is infinitely better than what I had come up with. I would convert to steel axles as I don't think theres any easy way to make that design clamp onto an alloy axle.

I think its time to get another steel blade for my band saw

you must be off with the pixes hills ,your ally tubes on the pacific magic are already located in steel chassis all you need is a short piece of tube with axle adjustment fittings welded to it and a locating bolt fitted thru both just like the PM axles in original drawing