Building my C5 : Questions and Comments

> 10 years ago
Reply
Register to post, see what you've read, and subscribe to topics.
Kody
Kody
QLD
190 posts
QLD, 190 posts
22 May 2008 7:35pm
Starter
hills
hills
SA
1622 posts
SA, 1622 posts
22 May 2008 8:44pm
I've got a feeling this is going to be a very entertaining read!!
Gizmo
Gizmo
SA
2865 posts
SA, 2865 posts
23 May 2008 8:27pm
Could you please give a brief overview of the yacht design.
eg. forward or back swept axles?
nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
23 May 2008 9:10pm



With the axle joiners, you've used a machined plug in each end of the axle tube, with a cap screw to join both the parts. I assume the head of the cap screw is going to be on the spine side, and you poke a big long tool down a hole in the spine to do it up, hoping that the hex head of your tool somehow mates up with the head of the bolt.

Why are you doing this?

Are you certain that your joiner will be able to withstand the forces involved? Since this is at the end of a very long lever, and all that torque gets transferred to the bolt (with a very small moment arm between the outside of the tube and the thread), you're talking some serious forces on that bolt. Back of the envelope says something around the 8 tonne mark for when you're really motoring along. Do you trust a single bolt to be able to support eight tonnes? And that's not even considering shock loading!

Why not just use a slightly bigger tube as a joiner, slide each axle into the tube, put a bolt in so that the axles don't fall out. No load on the bolt, no stripped threads and hassles trying to get the magic bolt out of the middle of the chassis, easy.
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
23 May 2008 9:53pm
You may be right Neb , but howabout we let the man build it and we will be sure to learn ,or unlearn something. that is the absolute beauty of a forum like this
Kody
Kody
QLD
190 posts
QLD, 190 posts
24 May 2008 1:12am
Hi Nebbian,
Thanks for the comments and questions. No, I'm not 100% certain that the joining method will hold. However, the bolt is under more tension than shear forces. The shear load is taken by the inserts but only by making the joint as designed will the design be proved. A single caphead bolt will withstand a very high tensile load and by making the moment arm shorter, the shear force is reduced. The axle moment is less than 700mm (from the join) and I am willing to give it a go. If it does all fail, then I am quite happy to weld the join together and accept the design as a failure.
So why do it? Well why jump off a bridge with a rubber band between you and certain death? or jump out of a perfectly good and safe aeroplane and hope the 'chute opens? Satisfaction in life is not always found at the destination but in the journey. I love building and trying something new. Even Eddision made a long journey against amazing odds. He built over 2000 light bulbs before one finally worked. If this project works, I will simply move on to another project. If it fails, I will humbly ask for someone to pass me the welder, and again, move on undaunted. All things notwithstanding, it is very satisfying to do and a source of great pleasure. To go flying up and down the beach is simply the cream on the cake.

For Gizmo
The L/Y is designed with swept back axles. The frame is made from 60.3mm dia, Duragal. The steering is the "normal" style of most L/Ys', not the same as Pauls design as used in the Pacific Magic. The body is made from 6mm ply and glassed all over and the steering will be to the original design as presented earlier in a separate post. The wheels are fitted with a customized hub that uses two Angular Contact bearings running in an oil bath. The outer end of the hub is closed and sealed. The inner end holds the single seal, a Wave Seal. This seal will also be shielded from contamination. This bearing configuration is capable of very high speeds with very little seal drag. An even higher speed and less drag can be obtained using needle bearings and standard thrust bearings with simple shields for protection but the bearings would fail quickly from sand intrusion. The axles (carrying the wheels) are welded to a steel plate and then bolted to the frame. There is provision for ajusting the camber.
Joe and Kody
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
23 May 2008 11:39pm
Do it
Promo girl
Promo girl
259 posts
259 posts
25 May 2008 11:16am
HI Kody,
looking forward to seeing how your yacht progresses. Also refreshing to see such nice neat drawings of yacht plans. I am used to seeing chicken scratchings on the backs of envelopes around here
Kody
Kody
QLD
190 posts
QLD, 190 posts
25 May 2008 3:58pm
Hi Sue, Thanks for the compliment. I love CAD drawing and all the drawings I will be displaying are all drawn to scale. A scale drawing makes it so much easier to understand. I have had a few setbacks with the construction, hospital and CAT scans and X-rays and being called out for counceling. I have started machining the axles and they're looking great. Have cleaned the lathe down (from repairing the slasher)and also tossed out a big pile of "maybe-I'l-use-it-one-day junk". I like to start each new project with a clean workshop/garage. This way, when I drop something I am able to find it.
Kody
Re Kody: I am now spending a minimum of an hour each night searching for and removing speargrass (seeds) from her coat. I have to get up an hour earlier to get the construction done or stay in bed and keep warm. Decisions-decisions. Speargrass will kill dogs and they die a terrible death.
Promo girl
Promo girl
259 posts
259 posts
25 May 2008 2:22pm


Re Kody: I am now spending a minimum of an hour each night searching for and removing speargrass (seeds) from her coat. I have to get up an hour earlier to get the construction done or stay in bed and keep warm. Decisions-decisions. Speargrass will kill dogs and they die a terrible death.


We lived in Central Vic for 3 years in the country and there was a grass there that used to get in Spotty Dog's hair, not sure if it was the same stuff but it was awful and you used to have to cut it out before it burrowed into the skin. One time the dopey dog chased the neighbours cat into a drain full of the stuff, he was so covered in it that he got himself stuck and could not get out. We spent hours cutting the grass from him and he was more bald than anthing else when finished - although he did look a bit embarresed at the end. Spotty Dog was a border collie X so had long hair. He also loved going out landsailing - Paul built a little box that went onto the side of the yacht for Spotty Dog to ride in!
Kody
Kody
QLD
190 posts
QLD, 190 posts
3 Jun 2008 1:04am
I finally got back to the serious stuff of building. The recent rain has been wonderful but also a giant size problem. Our new $2k driveway of 1klm has all but been destroyed. I cant drive out to the front gate even in 4x4 to go shopping. Between all the rain and counceling work, time has completely flown.
The photos do show the benefits of having a lathe with a "Tee" slotted cross slide. To do the same job by hand using a 4" grinder would be a pain to get it shaped properly but it can be done. If you have to shape the ends by hand using a grinder, go slowly. I like to use the lathe, it is so much quieter and cleaner. The brown colour patches seen on the lathe is a special coating of Residual Underlying Surface Treatment, commonly called R.U.S.T. (sigh! ). It is so hard to keep it away.
Kody
lachlan3556
lachlan3556
VIC
1066 posts
VIC, 1066 posts
3 Jun 2008 3:11pm
Gday Kody. Great to see your work progressing. A little jealous of your workshop but I'll live. Just wondering if your going to put a nyloc nut on the cap bolt inside the joiner pieces to stop it falling from the inner joining fitting and keeping it approximately alligned. Save you dragging it out and having to replace it everytime you dissasemble the toy. You've probably already thought of it or have a reason against it, no worries which ever.

Next thing, is there a trick to cutting the 'mouth' into a piece of tube so it fits the other beautifully (like yours do)? Do you use a pattern or trial and error? At present I do it by trial and error and find it extremely difficult to get two joins close to the same. If it is by trial and error can I get you to do them for me next time?(joke, sort of ).

Good luck. Hope all goes well with the landyacht and driveway
Kody
Kody
QLD
190 posts
QLD, 190 posts
3 Jun 2008 5:23pm
G’day Lachlan,
There were no tricks, trial and error, guesswork or great skill required in fitting the “birdsmouth” to the other length of pipe. All I had to do was set the “swept radius” of the cutter to suit the dia/radius of the pipe and wind the handles. The lathe did all the rest. No patern, template etc. was needed.
The pipe to be “mouthed” was simply set up as shown in the photos. The centerline of the pipe was set to the exact height of the lathe centerline. This was done by using the two steel plate "fixtures" as shown, no problems. Now that I have these fixtures, I can "mouth" any pipe that is less than 2.374" (60.3mm) in dia. by simply making two spacer rings to fit.

I am fitting a nylock nut into the joiner and a recess has already been cut into it for the nut to be set in. If the nut is too wide (thick) I will thin down a standard nut and keep it there with a drop of loc-tite. The cap head screw will be accessible and can be removed with little trouble. I have also up-sized the screw to M16-2. I would have prefered to use a 5/8 dia BSF thread but the BSF series is no longer made. However, the M16-2 is a finer thread than the 5/8-11 UNC.

If you are having difficulty in shaping the “mouths” to be the same shape and form, you could try using a hole cutter if one is suitable for the size of pipe/tube you are using. The set up needs to be very secure and run the hole saw at a slow speed, around 50 feet/min. max. This technique works very well with aluminium tube. The only flaw is the initial cost of the saw. If you could find a cheap way to transport your pipe to me and back, I would cut the “mouths” for you, gratis.

Kody
Kody
Kody
QLD
190 posts
QLD, 190 posts
17 Jun 2008 10:13pm
Amid all the turmoil, I have at last almost finished both of the shorter axles and they can be welded onto the main spine section as soon as I have the cut-outs prepared. The only machining to finish is cutting the keyways but that wont take very long. The cut-outs are what alows me to fit the bolts into the assembly. Photo to come.
Today has been a rather stressing day as I had to take our beloved little girl (Kody) to the animal hospital for surgery. She had three horrific wounds from the speargrass that penetrated her body. The worst penetration was an inch deep (25mm) and the others were about half of this depth. She is now back home and is soooo sleepy. I will watch her all night to be sure she is ok. The surgery was performed with a general anisthetic. I am very upset that I missed finding the stinking stuff before it penetrated her body.
To add insult to injury, two filthy scumbag vermin stole the two Lightforce spotlights off my car at the supermarket just yesterday!!!! How I wish I could have caught them. They would've had both arms, ribs and face smashed in. If I had of taken Kody with me, I would still have the lights.

Joe'n Kody
hills
hills
SA
1622 posts
SA, 1622 posts
17 Jun 2008 9:48pm
Thats no good Joe, that spear grass sounds really bad!! Bad luck about the spotties too but at least they're replaceable, Kody isn't!!
Please Register, or first...
Topics Subscribe Reply