Forge help, vaguely landyacht related

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landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
30 Oct 2010 8:48pm
seems like the best place to post this.
I need help with unsiezing 2 forge blower. the little one is a Canadian Blower and Forge job from the 1930's and the second , which I had to pay for($5.00)
is a big heavy sucker with a 2" outlet. with the label H.8/7
Any suggestions on how to get those bolts undone without breaking them
Gizmo
Gizmo
SA
2865 posts
SA, 2865 posts
30 Oct 2010 11:24pm
Penetrene, ....[get it from an auto parts store] a few drops every day for a week [don't try to undo them for all of that week as you might burr the head] then use an air ratchet gun...
If you still have problems next week I will go to step 2
grlynch
grlynch
QLD
208 posts
QLD, 208 posts
30 Oct 2010 11:01pm
as my dear old dad, (the semi retired fitter) says, lubrication and vibration. Soak in whatever, crc, wd40, inox, then a little tap. Strangely this is pretty much what Gizmo said.
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
30 Oct 2010 9:18pm
i tried the penetrene on the smaller blower, but the modern"new improved" stuff was nothing like the old bottle of old stuff I inherited from dad, and nothing budged. the nuts are really too old to get a good grip on the heads are slotted screwdriver.
has anybody tried heating anything like this?
Gizmo
Gizmo
SA
2865 posts
SA, 2865 posts
30 Oct 2010 11:51pm
How long did you wait for the penetrene to work?
Is the surrounding material cast? remember heating causes EXPANSION and this is not what you want to much of....
Have you ever heard of "Easyouts"?
sn
sn
WA
2775 posts
sn sn
WA, 2775 posts
30 Oct 2010 9:25pm
detcord

solves most of my problems
Test pilot 1
Test pilot 1
WA
1430 posts
WA, 1430 posts
1 Nov 2010 1:19am
Gizmo said...
"Easyouts"?
If I remember correctly Easyouts are used after you have butchered the bolt and have drilled them out.
Another method is to heat the external thread and cool the bolt.
What that entails is freezing unit then carefully applying heat around thread area and tapping directly on the end of the bolt. A trick my old man used to use was to actually try and tighten the bolt first whilst tapping. Then attempt to undo. Alternating tightening and undoing seemed to work most times. Of course he also soaked in hot penetrene(almost boiling in it) first.
Test pilot 1
Test pilot 1
WA
1430 posts
WA, 1430 posts
1 Nov 2010 1:21am
sn said...

detcord

solves most of my problems


Said detcord is the quickest way to cut down trees! [}:)] [}:)] [}:)]
Gizmo
Gizmo
SA
2865 posts
SA, 2865 posts
1 Nov 2010 7:44am
If the case is cast either alloy or iron DO NOT RAPIDLY HEAT or COOL IT !!!. Alloy will melt without warning just before the bolt changes color.
In cast iron it will cause internal stresses which will change this thread to "How to weld cast iron?"
With "easyouts" I was just getting set up for the butchered bolt to be drilled out with sharp drills and a new easyout.
But in the meantime the daily application of Penetrene will help it along......
aus230
aus230
WA
1660 posts
WA, 1660 posts
1 Nov 2010 11:18am
you could try soaking it in a mixture of water and molasses, I was talking to and old fella(no smart comments please) that restores old tools and he said that was the process that he used to strip rust and free up parts.
Cheers
aus230
nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
1 Nov 2010 2:27pm
CLR is amazing stuff with regard to cleaning up rust as well...
Test pilot 1
Test pilot 1
WA
1430 posts
WA, 1430 posts
1 Nov 2010 5:59pm
By CLR, doyou mean diluted phosphoric acid [}:)]
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
1 Nov 2010 8:22pm
i have trie d the molasses method before , but was then shown how to use a calcium hydroxide bath and a battery charger, thats how i clean up 6' sawblades.
there is no need to derust the blower, just need to loosen the bolts
some of the bolts can get chopped,and replaced but the ones into the gearboxes are blind.
sn
sn
WA
2775 posts
sn sn
WA, 2775 posts
1 Nov 2010 8:43pm
Test pilot 1 said...

sn said...

detcord

solves most of my problems


Said detcord is the quickest way to cut down trees! [}:)] [}:)] [}:)]


also the most fun way to remove tyres from rusted loader rims, and free up stuck dozer track pins
Hiko
Hiko
1229 posts
1229 posts
2 Nov 2010 3:48am
landyacht said...
there is no need to derust the blower, just need to loosen the bolts
some of the bolts can get chopped,and replaced but the ones into the gearboxes are blind.


Wondered why you didnt just chop them
If the penetrant doesnt work it looks like the drill or a diegrinder to split one side of the nut or drill the nut or head away right in the centre with a bolt size drill
[pilot hole first]
Nikrum
Nikrum
TAS
1972 posts
TAS, 1972 posts
2 Nov 2010 11:27pm
Land yacht,
Sounds like those blowers have been laying about for a fair while.
You are, I guess, working on the ones tying the gears to shafts etc. Some of that gear was fairly crude using a Set Screw (Sq head) and Lock nut. Others used a Grub Screw. It doesn't really matter. They can be ground off flush and center drill the screw and re-thread, if the drill runs off and damages the thread . A pain int butt but no real harm done. Either re-drill the hole in a larger size and re-tap or Braze the hole partially closed re-drill and tap or drill a new hole and tap Simple stuff. Those things were made to be repaired easily I have rebuilt 3, 2 small ones and a larger one which I have down in my Forge area along with my baby anvil and Leg Vices.
Take a close look at the construction of your blowers. Believe me they weren't made to Instrument precision but function they did and with a little care will function for a lot longer still.
Ron

PS before doing any of the above try giving them a sharp crack with a hammer and be sure to use a dolly to back up the job. Those castings were quite soft and break easily, They will braze though. a Couple of sharp cracks with a reasonable hammer and penetrene or diesel should be able to get into the thread and gently rock the bolt/screw back and forth trying to break the rust and assist the liquids to penetrate. Heat is another way to assist in the loosening of shafts screw etc.

Be careful of the castings they can break easily
Gizmo
Gizmo
SA
2865 posts
SA, 2865 posts
12 Nov 2010 10:21pm
So Landyacht how did you go with the seized bolts?
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
12 Nov 2010 8:14pm
yes , well. the big blower is really in the way near the shed door. I have finished a room renov and moved into that room, finished restoring a 110y old race club bench, restored a barbie, then bit the bullet and started building the new work tipper trailer.
meanwhile, after work and dinner, ive been slowly cutting up an old circular saw blade to make a few nice camping knives. when the good steel is used up , I will be back to hammering car springs, so will need the forge.
news just in , the ceiling of the lounge will be coming down over the weekend, and I need to pull the schooner out for a cleanup to sell
Gizmo
Gizmo
SA
2865 posts
SA, 2865 posts
12 Nov 2010 10:56pm
Ok... so in your spare time, keep putting the Penetrene on the nuts.. put the bottle near the forge blower so every day when you go past to the shed for a rest put a bit more on.
Nikrum
Nikrum
TAS
1972 posts
TAS, 1972 posts
16 Nov 2010 9:44pm
Ly I would also suggest that you get someone to hold a Dolly to the opposite side of the nut and you using a flat faced punch give it a good smack with a hammer. Often that will crack any rust and allow the penetrene/WD40 to get right in.

How about a pic' of this Bower?

The one I got working had been sitting for a lot of years in a paddock. I filled it with diesel and also gave the shaft ends a thump with a hammer and punch. A few days later I had it working a treat. That was about 10 years ago and it is still working a treat.

Ron
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
24 Nov 2010 8:32pm
gear box case removed thanks to the penetrene. there is a collapsed bearing that has led to a cog going walkabout and chewing out the teeth.
there are some pulling holes so that is the next step.
this baby has had a rough life
Nikrum
Nikrum
TAS
1972 posts
TAS, 1972 posts
26 Nov 2010 11:46pm
Whoa there Ly, I don't think you n me is on the same page.. Are you talking an electric Forge Blower I am talking Hand Operated Forge Blower. Plain Cast Iron housings and gear shafts born in drilled out bushings with Oiler Holes outside. which fits onto the Air Tube that runs down to the Tuyere.

Ron
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