Lachlans Lefroy Mini Project

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lachlan3556
lachlan3556
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7 Sep 2009 12:41pm
G'day again all. Hope everyone is happy and well. Just thought I better post some progress pics of my mini build. Thankyou to everyone who posted their progress and got me moving again

Im following the plans closely but of course deviated a little. Instead of finding the tube sizes listed on the plans I only used the ~60mm galtube, 30x2.5 RHS, 35x2.5 RHS and 25.4x3.0 seamless tube. Not much difference but I wanted to get cutting and only sourced these sizes. I figure I can afford the little extra mass as Im fairly light

EDIT: I deleted the large pictures present above and replaced them with smaller versions here.




Mast Step/tube.



Rear pulley mount.



Front seat mount. Notice its on the ventral side of the chassis.



Rear axle, whip mount detail. Next time I will wild the mounts on so they are paralell with the seat surface and not the rear axle tube.



Overview of the near completed chassis. On to getting a seat designed and built.
lachlan3556
lachlan3556
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7 Sep 2009 2:11pm
Here are a couple of shots of the seat Im making. Im using the stitch'n'glue technique, I haven't before so hopefully it'll work.

Currently the seat is too high and I'll cut approx 50mm off all the way around the top. Im kinda proud of how it turned out and hope to paint a big set of teeth on the front




here's a shot (below) of the split level aspect of the seat. I added a second seat mount in the center there with a bit of rod (~6mm) to support it. The white spacers are 20mm PVC sockets joined and cut to length. Seems to work well and I look forward to doing some more work on it ASAP.





Thanks for reading. Questions and comments are welcome.
lachlan3556
lachlan3556
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8 Sep 2009 2:28pm
I'll answer your question in the comments thread responderman, seeing as Cisco made me one. Thanks for that Cisco.
lachlan3556
lachlan3556
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21 Sep 2009 1:46pm
Another set of updates for the world wide web. I got home to my parents place and did some work on Saturday, I hate not having a workshop/shed at my house .

So, heres a quick shot of the brace in the middle of the frame I added to support the seat. Not that anyone can see it in these pics but I also welded a 12mm brace behind the mast step/tube.




Now some more exciting pics (my opinion anyway ). This one is pretty self explanitory. Current bearings in the wheels are low cost, loose, noisy wheelbarrow bearings as the tube I used for the axles are 0.02mm to large [}:)]. I can get some 4130 tube that will fit the precision bearings perfect in a while, not a priority at present .



Currently how the craft sits. This is my favourite shot so far




I also drilled some holes in my boom, reenforced my mast, scrounged some blocks and a mainsheet and looking for a place to buy some plastic rowlocks.
sn
sn
WA
2775 posts
sn sn
WA, 2775 posts
22 Sep 2009 8:16am
"Whitworths Marine and Leisure"

They have a shop in Leederville (Perth,Western Australia)
but I think there are other branches all around the country,

They sell plastic (nylon?) rowlocks for about $4.00 each, and do mail order/ internet sales.

I bought 4 rowlocks to make the postage worthwhile, all up cost was around $20.00 or so.
lachlan3556
lachlan3556
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22 Sep 2009 11:08am
Thanks for that Stephen. I'll check out their website.
aus230
aus230
WA
1660 posts
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22 Sep 2009 9:47am
Your LLM is looking great.
I get most of my parts from bias marine they have excellent customer service and mail order response www.biasboating.com.au/
Cheers
AUS230
lachlan3556
lachlan3556
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28 Sep 2009 3:09pm
Hello again, update from the past weekend. Not much to report, making up my boom, scrounging blocks/pulleys, mainsheet and trimming off all the tie-wire 'twitchs' (mongrel job with blunt side cutters! [}:)]).

I also rang the 10 or so boating and marine shops in Bendigo, none have nylon rowlocks. So Im making my own; some 30mm alloy flat bar and the original end plug rom the sailboard mast makes it dead easy

Heres some pics, all kinda boring but for the sake of consistancy I'll put them up here. First is of the original sailboard mast plug that I'm going to attach the homemade rowlock and front block/pulley to. The pulley mount may not be strong enough and if it breaks i'll screw or bolt and simple saddle in its place.




The all important seatbelt, adjustable with a clicky bit for easy entry and escape form the mini. To attach it I simply melted holes in the attachment loops, drilling it doesn't work and melting the belt will help it resist fraying (my logic anyway). As you can see the seat hasn't been fibreglassed; going to see a friend of a friend this week to get some stuff for that.



My messy mainsheet rigging model, I wont cut the boom to length until I get a sail to make sure everything sits where it is supposed to. First thing my Dad said was how am I gunna fit my head under the boom, still not sure if it was a serious question or a stab at me


kiwi307
kiwi307
488 posts
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30 Sep 2009 7:12am
If you make up "strops" to go around your boom to carry the blocks, rather than drilling or trying to make some sort of fitting you will have less stress on the boom section itself. If you are using the 'glass boom shown you probably want to do what you can to spread the load or the section itself may collapse. Another piece of tube over it, bit of wood inside etc are a couple of options.Looks good!
lachlan3556
lachlan3556
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30 Sep 2009 4:34pm
Thanks for the info Kiwi. As the blocks are recessed up into the boom via a cut-out I'll try out reinforcing the boom tube with some material (probably PVC). If the front block mount proves insufficient, I'll try to figure out what you mean by using "strops" to mount it.
kiwi307
kiwi307
488 posts
488 posts
1 Oct 2009 5:45am
I don't think PVC will do a lot of good. I would be inclined to cut a slice of alloy tube, thin wall (1.2mm)would be fine, about 200mm long and taper the ends so it's longest at the top and say around 150 at the bottom. Sort of a half pipe. Put this on the outside of the boom on the top so that however you are fastening the blocks onto the boom goes through the boom and this re-inforcing bit. It will spread the load considerably and by cutting away the ends you take away the "stress riser".
The "strops" I use are just a bit of 6mm cord made into a continuous loop, just tied at the ends. It needs to be a bit more than the circumference of your boom x2. So a 50mm boom needs for the total length of cord to be about 450mm (depending how you tie your knots). Loop it over the boom and threadthe end through itself, then just fix the block to it. Sort of like a doubled lassoo.
If someone can tell a senile old fogey how to do photos I will do so!






Gizmo
Gizmo
SA
2865 posts
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1 Oct 2009 9:36am
You may want to try tieing the pulleys onto the boom and other points of the yacht with a knot called a "Prusik knot" / "Prusik loop" it is a non jambing no slipping knot.....
I have used it on water and landyachts for years.
Similar to the loop kiwi307 has described but with an extra loop
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussic
kiwi307
kiwi307
488 posts
488 posts
1 Oct 2009 9:06am
I use this loop (and have done for years) in favor of other options because it clamps by itself, so you can try various positions very easily, and most importantly (and probably does not matter in Oz) you can do things with it when your fingers are very cold.
You can also make up the strops from 25mm webbing if you don't like the "string is cheap" look!
Kemosabi
Kemosabi
69 posts
69 posts
2 Oct 2009 3:29am
Never know what soft of useful tidbits you'll pick up reading these forums!
Need to rebuild the booms on my Minis. I like this knot idea.

Thanks guys.

Enjoying your build there Lachlan. Very unique.
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
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4 Oct 2009 8:38pm
stick with the slot , and string, they are the best rear sheeted booms Ive used you need those pulleys up out of the way to give you sheeting room when you lower the rig for racing
kiwi307
kiwi307
488 posts
488 posts
5 Oct 2009 9:30am
landyacht said...

stick with the slot , and string, they are the best rear sheeted booms Ive used you need those pulleys up out of the way to give you sheeting room when you lower the rig for racing


Specially with those "end on end" pulleys! I still would like to see some spreading of the point load from the fastening though.
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
7 Oct 2009 9:10pm
havent yet had any problems, all the booms have been regular glass booms, rope has been 4mm spectra.
dont forget that your sailing a lighter , narrower yacht, so youll probably capsize before you snap most of the gear
kiwi307
kiwi307
488 posts
488 posts
8 Oct 2009 7:53am
I give up you win!
Just "been there done that" a very long way up 90 mile beach years ago! And it was a hell of a job to patch up with no spares! Wound up taking the string out of the waist of my wet weather pants! I thought I was helping!
lachlan3556
lachlan3556
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8 Oct 2009 12:35pm
Well after taking everyones comments and thinking very hard (not really, ran out of things to work on and got bored last weekend) I found a bit of alloy and made a reinforcing for the boom block mountings. I'll post a pick soonish.

I wondered whether the boom would be strong enough and thought why chance it, Im not exactly up to my neck it spare boom sections (plus a did a little damage to the inside of the boom when cutting and drilling).


Kiwi: what do you mean when you say "end on end pulleys"?


Thankyou to all for the good comments and tips.
kiwi307
kiwi307
488 posts
488 posts
8 Oct 2009 11:24am
End on end, a basic term for when the sheaves in the pulley are not beside each other, so they are longer. The bottom one showing in your photo has a "becket" where you have tied off the end of the mainsheet. There are alternate ways to do this which save height so that you can get the sheave of the pulleys closer. This means that the overall space needed is less. It becomes more of an issue when you are using double blocks. Sometimes the "end on end" are called Banjo blocks.
Now as I "gave up" to Paul on the need to reinforce, or spread the point load, another option is to put washers under the knots you have tied the blocks on with, this will help too.
lachlan3556
lachlan3556
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9 Oct 2009 4:33pm
Thanks Kiwi. Not much space to tie the rope off beside my lower block, maybe I can drill a couple of holes in the seat and tie off there... Will give me another inch of downward travel Then again my sail may not need the extra travel, and it brings up the issue of tangling as ropes will be passing against each other.

Thoughts to go into V.2 of the design tho
lachlan3556
lachlan3556
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10 Oct 2009 4:43pm
The novelty of fibreglassing has worn off. Do I have to do all the seams of my seat...
Hiko
Hiko
1229 posts
1229 posts
10 Oct 2009 2:35pm
I think you should It will make a good job into a much better one
It should only take an hour or two Use some resin and filler to make a radius on the internal joins cover with some tape inside and out bedded in resin and jobs done !
If you cut your own tape from cloth cut the strips on the diagonal so all the fibres go across the joint
Much stronger that way Double bias tape can be purchased also
I usually buy it 100mm wide and split it into 50mm wide
You are almost there!
cheers Hiko
lachlan3556
lachlan3556
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13 Oct 2009 1:14pm
Hello again all. It was just a joke regarding the glassing of all the seams on my seat.

Here are some more pics, not great but showing the process as it continues. First one is of my high tech chassis painting shop. Note here that you should wait until after you fibreglass your seats (if they have to be mounted to the chassis), to paint your chassis.




Next up are some images showing how I am laying fibreglass and resin onto the seams (joins) of my seat to reinforce the structure so I wont go sailing and have it fall apart (hopefully). Im using polyester resin and offcuts of fibreglass mat (not cloth) that I made into approx. 50mm strips. The offcuts were gained from a fibreglassing shop for relatively low cost. Not sure what the weight of the fibreglass is though.





EDIT: Unfortunately I tied my seat together before understanding the fibreglassing process fully and therefore it has been harder than whats usual (I guess). For one I sanded a radius onto the 'inside' edge of a seam (join) but not the outside, and fibreglass mat doesn't like going round sharp corners (I actually knew this before starting to glass the seat but as it was all tied together and ready to go, I thought "how much trouble could it be" [}:)]).
cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
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13 Oct 2009 4:03pm
Before you paint the seat Lachlan you might consider coating it with "Everdure" or Wattyl "Timber Preserver". This is a two pack thinned out epoxy resin which will densify the timber and seal it.

The product is reasonably priced but should not be left as the top or final coat as it as no UV resistance.

Cheers Cisco.
aus230
aus230
WA
1660 posts
WA, 1660 posts
13 Oct 2009 11:28pm
Hi Lachlan.
When I built my stitch and glue Kayaks I used a fiberglass filler (resin +powder) to make a nice corner over the tape this can be applied with a spatula that is rounded at the end a bit to achieve a nice smooth curve along the inside of the body. I did not apply tape to the outside as it was filled when applying the inside tape this allows you to sand a nice rounded edge on the outside
Cheers
AUS230
lachlan3556
lachlan3556
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16 Oct 2009 7:20pm
Thanks for the hints and help, I'll check out the products that have been mentioned. I see there are a few varieties of additive to make resin filler, does anyone have a favourite or hated product?

That said, I probably wont protect the wood with anything more than the paint that will decorate it. This seat is pretty rough around the edges and will be having absolute minimum spent (time and money, at present the seat cost is under $80) to get it going. The next one will be much prettier up close and I'll definately want to use filler and protect it more (I think )

Right now I just want to get sailing ASAP!!!! and there isn't far to go
Hiko
Hiko
1229 posts
1229 posts
16 Oct 2009 6:16pm
Hi lachlan
I just used resin , a bit of glue powder and then a filler powder until it got to about the right consistancy and used a rounded spatula as Aus 230 has said
I have used talcum powder also as a filler powder in the past to make the internal radius The fibreglass tape was put over that and wet out with resin
The whole inside job can be done in one operation
I then sanded a radius and taped the outside
The seat was then painted with acrylic paint that was left over from the house
I am happy with the result These yachts take a beating a piano finish will make you cry
cheers Hiko
lachlan3556
lachlan3556
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2 Nov 2009 11:54am
Get ready for it, your not going to believe it but Im almost finished. Though by finished i mean it could be sailed, there is a fair bit of cosmetic work that could (insert: should) be done.

First image up is of the modified whip block mount. The additional second loop is to tie the mainsheet off, this will allow the boom to be pulled down a bit further, and I dont have to buy blocks with a becket (??) which is cheper The how I did this is self explanatory so I wont describe the complex process of how I did it.



And a wheel and backrest. Wheels are held on with split pins. This photo also highlights quite a large mistake I made when making the seat, a couple of 1"x3/4"x2mm steel tabs on the axle sleeves fixed it up (please forgive the unit mix).



Actually, not one to make a single mistake heres a shot that shows another. Cutting a little too much wood off the lower front seat base changes the angle of the sides considerably. Too much angle for my liking, and the seat is 50mm wider than planned, but the up side is I could use 2 sleeping bags worth of padding and still fit into the seat This also shows where the angle comes from that you can see between the nose and sides of the seat.



And lastly a coule of overview shots. The grey colour I just used as and undercoat but I dont think it would look too bad as a final colour. I want to see what the sail colours are first and match the seat to it (although if the sail is pink....), hopefully bring out a professional appearance to the mini explorer (and sharks teeth on the front will add to that....wont they ) Thanks everyone for following the build, more posts to come as I finish and test the machine .




aus230
aus230
WA
1660 posts
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2 Nov 2009 11:26am
Great Job. I like that different look.
Cheers
AUS230
lachlan3556
lachlan3556
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2 Nov 2009 4:33pm
aus230 said...

Hi Lachlan.
When I built my stitch and glue Kayaks I used a fiberglass filler (resin +powder) to make a nice corner over the tape this can be applied with a spatula that is rounded at the end a bit to achieve a nice smooth curve along the inside of the body. I did not apply tape to the outside as it was filled when applying the inside tape this allows you to sand a nice rounded edge on the outside
Cheers
AUS230


Just wondering how one can sand the outside of the seams on a stitch and glue project when the 'ties' are protruding. I would have done this but couldn't think of a way to do it.

I imagine next seat I do will be stitched together with the twitches on the outside, use filler and glass the inside of the seat then cut the ties off the outside and sand the outside smooth (and by sand I really mean angle grind carefully). Can I have a quick run through of how to do it properly please?
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