Need some help for landyacht sail...

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bludbunny
bludbunny
QLD
43 posts
QLD, 43 posts
5 Dec 2009 6:24pm
Hi guys

Finally have the landyacht together, except sail.
I have a 4.85m long mast, two peice alloy unit.
The sail is a 7m Neil Pryde sail. From what i have seen elsewhere on the forums, I believe it should be modified.
When I put it all together, the mast does not bend much, but i assume this occurs when it is all setup on the landyacht ready to go? Or should the sail be modified to make the front edge straighter?

Can someone help me with what i would need to do with the sail to make it suitable...
thanks heaps,
Brett


Hiko
Hiko
1229 posts
1229 posts
5 Dec 2009 5:11pm
Hi Brett
If you click on forums/all/ sailmaking in the landyacht section you should find all you need but yes you will need to cut the luff[leading edge] straighter
That sail is quite big so will take quite a bit of modifying I think to suit a mini
Some windsurfer sails lend themselves to converting to landyacht sails easier than others
Because that sail is so long on the foot the luff will need to be brought right back to where it will go through the monofilm window Are you able to sew that stuff?
Otherwise you will have to modify both the luff and the leach so that the window finishes up in the centre of the sail which is quite a lot of work IMHO
Your mast will bend when it is on the yacht and sheeted in
It may be easier to look for a sail that is simpler to modify they can be picked up
for a few dollars on the second hand market some people have managed to find them in skips!
Good luck
HIKO
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
6 Dec 2009 7:07pm
That NP sail you have is ideal for recutting.
Ive done 3 of them recently.
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=54902&whichpage=2&replies=49&PageSize=30&mxPages=2
Thats the link to lachlans yacht -same sail. Also one for cameron, TP1, one for me and one for a new yacht in Kalgoorlie
The one you have looks to have some delamination of the mylar. these were very early composite materials back in the eighties. Have a good read of the recutting thread . and then youll have a better idea of the questions to ask. you could resew this sail with a household sewing machine
Heres a sail with the carboard luff template laid on, and the foot drawn on . foot length is drawn at 1700mm which is longer than I would have on one of my racing minis, but good for a first yacht the curve on the foot is 50mm
the curve of that template is the one discussed in the "how recut windsurfer sails for landyachts "thread

Hiko
Hiko
1229 posts
1229 posts
7 Dec 2009 5:37am
Oops I stand corrected !
I assumed that the tube was going to be the boom and the clear window was going to be difficult to get around due to its position in such a wide sail compared with the one above
Was both the luff and the leach cut back on Lachlans sail ?
Sorry Brett
Cheers Hiko
bludbunny
bludbunny
QLD
43 posts
QLD, 43 posts
7 Dec 2009 7:28pm
landyacht said...

That NP sail you have is ideal for recutting.
Ive done 3 of them recently.
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=54902&whichpage=2&replies=49&PageSize=30&mxPages=2
Thats the link to lachlans yacht -same sail. Also one for cameron, TP1, one for me and one for a new yacht in Kalgoorlie
The one you have looks to have some delamination of the mylar. these were very early composite materials back in the eighties. Have a good read of the recutting thread . and then youll have a better idea of the questions to ask. you could resew this sail with a household sewing machine
Heres a sail with the carboard luff template laid on, and the foot drawn on . foot length is drawn at 1700mm which is longer than I would have on one of my racing minis, but good for a first yacht the curve on the foot is 50mm
the curve of that template is the one discussed in the "how recut windsurfer sails for landyachts "thread




Landy
Love your work! Exactly what i need to move forwards.
I put the sail out for a decent clean today (had a day off work yeehar!) and took some measurements. Might look at marking out and unpicking tomorrow night.
Thanks both of you for the responses. Can't wait to get the ol land yacht out. My workmates are keen too, but I think they just want to see me stack

cheers,
Brett
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
7 Dec 2009 8:24pm
Hiko said...

Oops I stand corrected !
I assumed that the tube was going to be the boom and the clear window was going to be difficult to get around due to its position in such a wide sail compared with the one above
Was both the luff and the leach cut back on Lachlans sail ?
Sorry Brett
Cheers Hiko


No just the luff,and the top of the head on the leach. recutting the leach is lots of work, and thats the only flat part on those old windsurfer sails
on those old sails I just treat the window like it is sailcloth .its usually the last bit of the sail to die.you need to avoid sails that have gone sticky or the mylar is starting to peel. you can still recut , but you will get a rather limited life from it. I save the bad sails up for the mast pockets, batten pockets/tensioners and wear tape. then use the extra scrounged bits when I get a good sail, or as parts on a bulkybag sail.
Recycle, recycle,recycle

Hiko
Hiko
1229 posts
1229 posts
8 Dec 2009 6:01am
Ah thanks for that you have just changed my mind on which of the two sails I have here will be used for my next sail recut project
The better of the two in condition I thought would be a problem because of the window
Obviously its not
regards Hiko
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
8 Dec 2009 6:23pm
Heres one where the lower third is all window material

is it possible for our dear administrator to move the thread to the sailmaking section so it doesnt get lost
bludbunny
bludbunny
QLD
43 posts
QLD, 43 posts
8 Dec 2009 9:20pm
Hey guys
Yeah the sail is a little sticky, even a good wash didn't help some parts.
It appears to be strong, so i might just go ahead and see if i can modify it anyway.
It is lasts two runs, it will at least give me an idea of how it all works!
Brett
bludbunny
bludbunny
QLD
43 posts
QLD, 43 posts
8 Dec 2009 9:25pm
.... also forgot to ask too, what would be the recommended rope size and pulleys for these? I have had a look around, not sure what I am exactly looking for....
Is there a good online site to order pulleys from?

Brett
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
8 Dec 2009 7:39pm
I use a 12mm sheet rope and 38mm diameter roller bearing pulley.
I have used skinnier sheets but after a long hard wintersail 2 years ago I lost circulation in 2 fingers for early 6 months, due to the skinny sheet.
I use australia made Riley pulleys , they dont have quite the finish of the ronstans, but they are great quality . often hard to find ,I buy straight from the factory, as I buy bags of 10, so I dont have to chase pulleys every time I build ayacht.
If you are not using roller bearing pulleys, you may want to go to a bigger sheave diameter to compensate.
Hiko
Hiko
1229 posts
1229 posts
9 Dec 2009 5:43am
There is quite a lot of load on your sheet rope Brett at times so you want it at least 12mm so its comfortable in your hands also I would suggest you compare ropes in the shop for suppleness they vary a lot
You want the soft and bendy variety as it runs through the blocks easier and there are times you want to spill wind in a hurry
I would like bearing blocks like Landyacht has but the ones I have will have to do for a while yet They do have more friction
Bigger diameter is better with blocks also but more expensive unfortunately
Have a look at landyachts thread on sheeting arrangements in the forum
The split sheet version where you have smaller blocks and rope at the mast downhaul end looks good to me if you are starting from scratch
That would reduce friction also I think
cheers Hiko
kiwi307
kiwi307
488 posts
488 posts
9 Dec 2009 6:36am
Gee Hiko you are getting on!
The class 5 in Europe we used a max of 8mm, windage, free running and hurts the hands like hell, but I would not go over 10mm! Even on a class 3, there is just too much chance for not running free with 12mm unless you have keel boat sized blocks.
Hiko
Hiko
1229 posts
1229 posts
9 Dec 2009 3:43pm
mmmmmmmm although my yachts over the years have got smaller my hands havent
My blocks are rather large accordingly also we must use what we have !
I suppose if I was a serious racer I would put up with a bit of pain but I am not

Cheers Hiko
Gizmo
Gizmo
SA
2865 posts
SA, 2865 posts
9 Dec 2009 6:19pm
After a days sailing wash the sheet rope in the washing machine with some laundry liquid and then fabric softner... makes them very nice Ive have done it for years.... (when the wife's at work shhhh !!!)
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
10 Dec 2009 5:44pm
Like I said , I did go down to 10mm, learnt my lesson and went back to 12mm.
bunning sell some coloured stuff in 30mx10mm rolls called GRUNT. complete rubbish for any real job...... BUT....... we bought some , had to stretch it to get the casing and core to match , then cut it into 6m lenghts to try out. some of the guys are STILL using thiers after2 years. not bad a $4 for a 30m roll .
It does hurt me to recommend such a cheap product, but those are the facts of history, so nobody can call me "anti Bunnings'
bludbunny
bludbunny
QLD
43 posts
QLD, 43 posts
12 Dec 2009 6:24pm
Hey Paul
Yeah I actually bought some of that rope for when we go camping a couple of weeks ago at the big B. Could be an option when i get some larger blocks.
Got my @ss into gear today, and cut the sail, after walking in circles freaking out for a while. The missus helped out with the sewing on her Janome, worked a treat with the exception of the batten pockets, but with the heavier leather needle still got there in the end.
Still got the bottom section to do, and probably another run up the length of the sail for extra strength.
Still have to strengthen up the middle of my yacht where the join is - though part of me is thinking that I might just weld the whole thing up, and put the back seats down when i want to transport it, instead of making it suitable for a car boot....
Brett
bludbunny
bludbunny
QLD
43 posts
QLD, 43 posts
16 Dec 2009 10:18pm
OK getting excited now - boom done. I ended up turning an old shovel handle down and fitting the sections of timber to both ends of my boom. Worked out quite well.
With help from a work buddy i selected a few pulley blocks.
Tonight, i have just finished completing a mock up of the whole setup, sadly the camera is dead so no photos.

Pretty happy with the whole thing. Still have to fix up the join in the chassis, pin the wheels to the axle and tighten up the steering join.
Hoping to get out this weekend, but I doubt it somehow with a lot happening family wise!
Brett

landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
16 Dec 2009 8:29pm
Three cheers for your wife and her janome. we all thank and salute her
make sure sails are REALY cleean and dry when begging for such a favour.
I woul assume you have duly volunteered to cook AND clean for a few days after that great ask.
or perhaps she is a simpler more generous soul who wil settle for diamonds
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