Optimist yacht rig on a landyacht...?

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MKD
MKD
10 posts
MKD MKD
10 posts
29 Nov 2014 3:26pm
just wondering if anyone has tried an optimist rig on a landyacht, most likely something like a mini?
they're a spritsail rig and I think the sail area is around 3.3m, and has a fairly low CoG.

lots of them available cheap in NZ so thought it might work out rather than making up an ex board sail into the std ll mini rig etc.

something like clemcos skimini build with the mast foot quite forward could work...?

cheers, mkd


Gizmo
Gizmo
SA
2865 posts
SA, 2865 posts
29 Nov 2014 6:02pm
www.iceboat.org/optis/buildopti.html

http://www.icesailing.org/junior/docs/IceOpti-TrainingManual.pdf
kiwiboy
kiwiboy
12 posts
12 posts
4 Dec 2014 1:59pm
Hi MKD

Keep an eye out on trade me for wind surfer sails and masts. I bought a whole wind surfer for $20. 2 near new sails for $20 and found some guy who gave me 2, 2 piece masts. Where are you?

Steve
MKD
MKD
10 posts
MKD MKD
10 posts
19 Dec 2014 2:12pm
kiwiboy said..
Hi MKD

Keep an eye out on trade me for wind surfer sails and masts. I bought a whole wind surfer for $20. 2 near new sails for $20 and found some guy who gave me 2, 2 piece masts. Where are you?

Steve


Hi steve,

ive been looking for a while on trademe. I'm in hawkes bay but i should probably learn to weld before i buy anything!
The dump here has lots of snow skis and scrap steel so should be able to get something to work with.

leaning towards a skimini type build at the moment to utilise the skis at the dump...
kiwiboy
kiwiboy
12 posts
12 posts
21 Dec 2014 5:19pm
Hi MKD

Hiko on the forum, also a kiwi, has used ski's for rear axles on his LLM. See if you can get in touch with any wind surfing clubs around you way.

Steve
MKD
MKD
10 posts
MKD MKD
10 posts
24 Dec 2014 10:09am
Ok new thought.
What about a windsurfer boom attachment at the mast base (the clamp-type ones), meaning the boom becomes a blokart styled mast-stay fixed back to the rear axle? This would also mean the standard windsurfer mast foot/base could be used onto say a plywood platform (with treaded insert to suit mast foot) which would form the seat/body of the yacht...the length of the boom-stays could have thumb stud holes for increasing or decreasing mast rake.

possible? Probably. Anyone tried?
Clemco
Clemco
430 posts
430 posts
24 Dec 2014 11:34am
MKD said..
just wondering if anyone has tried an optimist rig on a landyacht, most likely something like a mini?
they're a spritsail rig and I think the sail area is around 3.3m, and has a fairly low CoG.

lots of them available cheap in NZ so thought it might work out rather than making up an ex board sail into the std ll mini rig etc.

something like clemcos skimini build with the mast foot quite forward could work...?

cheers, mkd




Probably better off starting with a windsurf sail as they are designed for much higher speeds than the Opti which probably has the cruising speed of a snail compared to a landyacht.
Using a windsurfer boom for side stays is a good idea though. It takes a lot of stress off the base of the mast which means it can be lighter. That's how the Mantas and Blokarts have done it for decades. Does create a bit of drag though.
MKD
MKD
10 posts
MKD MKD
10 posts
24 Dec 2014 12:14pm
The ice opti's seem to get up a good clip with the std rig, less drag on the ice i guess. Theres a few good videos on youtube.
Do you think a plywood base/seat would be strong enough to take mast forces from a standard windsurfer mast?
Could be thicker like 15mm etc? Or a double 9mm at that area etc.

Im trying to find ways to build without welding as i dont know how and dont have a welder haha
Hiko
Hiko
1229 posts
1229 posts
25 Dec 2014 7:28am
Optimist sails are around 3.5 sqM Too small for a landyacht unless you are a super lightweight and want to sail in a gale on Tarmac You will probably need a sail bigger than that 4.5 Sqm or so for all round sailing for normal sized people in average wind
sn
sn
WA
2775 posts
sn sn
WA, 2775 posts
25 Dec 2014 3:14pm
MKD said..Im trying to find ways to build without welding as i dont know how and dont have a welder


This one is practically "welding free", based on a USA commercially available set of plans.
IIRC, the plans are around $20.00, almost entirely plywood.
No idea how it performs - but this is the only weld-less design I know of.

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Land-Yacht-Sailing/Construction/UK-Wooden-Mini-Build/

stephen
Whippet61
Whippet61
6 posts
6 posts
26 Dec 2014 7:03am
MKD said..
Cheers for the replies.

Has anyone used or tried these wheels?
http://www.supercheapauto.co.nz/online-store/tools-and-storage/hardware/castors-and-wheels.aspx?id=70705

Theyre cheap...the 40cm ones look about right.

This is fast turning into a general thread, but helpful to myself at least.

Cheers


I've got these and they are rubbish. They are no longer round and poorly balanced. You will need to replace the bearings. The tubes are cheap and failed for no reason. The tread is not suitable. Save your money. I am looking for alternative aluminium go-kart wheels. Cheers
Gizmo
Gizmo
SA
2865 posts
SA, 2865 posts
26 Dec 2014 11:29am
In 'How to build a LLMini' there is some info on various sorts of wheels..
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Land-Yacht-Sailing/Construction/Build-a-Landyacht-Lake-Lefroy-Mini-Yacht/

MKD
MKD
10 posts
MKD MKD
10 posts
26 Dec 2014 1:02pm
I've got these and they are rubbish. They are no longer round and poorly balanced. You will need to replace the bearings. The tubes are cheap and failed for no reason. The tread is not suitable. Save your money. I am looking for alternative aluminium go-kart wheels. Cheers


Cheers whippet, thats about what i was after/wondering

Hiko
Hiko
1229 posts
1229 posts
26 Dec 2014 6:18pm
Fallshaw wheels are well proven on landyachts and are available in Nz You can also get plastic inserts to take
industrial 20 mm deep groove bearings for them Front wheels don't have the same load put on them so you can get away with something less




Test pilot 1
Test pilot 1
WA
1430 posts
WA, 1430 posts
27 Dec 2014 12:00am
Better off getting all 3 the same, as they then are interchangeable e.g. good front wheel 1 side tyre wears thin, just swap wheels and keep sailing. Also same bearings all round.
It also helps to use tubular spacers between the bearings to enable bolt axles to be tightened properly
MKD
MKD
10 posts
MKD MKD
10 posts
27 Dec 2014 6:35am
Test pilot 1 said..
Better off getting all 3 the same, as they then are interchangeable e.g. good front wheel 1 side tyre wears thin, just swap wheels and keep sailing. Also same bearings all round.
It also helps to use tubular spacers between the bearings to enable bolt axles to be tightened properly


Cheers just sent off for a price on the fallshaws and deep groove bearings
Hiko
Hiko
1229 posts
1229 posts
27 Dec 2014 11:32am
Specialist wheels and castors are the people I have dealt with in the past They were called Sheppard industries then
They are in Auckland and Christchurch They had very good prices on the bearings back then
Ribbed tyres are better than the knobblies for landyachts if you are getting them also
As has been said don't forget putting spacers between the bearings This helps the bearings a lot and allows the nut to be done up tight
Whippet61
Whippet61
6 posts
6 posts
27 Dec 2014 6:01pm
Hiko said..
Fallshaw wheels are well proven on landyachts and are available in Nz You can also get plastic inserts to take
industrial 20 mm deep groove bearings for them Front wheels don't have the same load put on them so you can get away with something less






Is 20 mm the internal diameter of the bearings?
Test pilot 1
Test pilot 1
WA
1430 posts
WA, 1430 posts
28 Dec 2014 1:00am
Yes, though you can get various plastic inserts for a range of bearings but we've found that you don't really want to have anything less than 20mm for your axles as bending can occur at otherwise inopportune times
Hiko
Hiko
1229 posts
1229 posts
28 Dec 2014 6:16am
As said above 20mm is the preferred size for stub axles 3/4 is OK also but if you are starting from scratch
Metric size bearings are more readily available and generally cheaper
Bearings that have non contact seals have less friction rubber seal types keep grit out better but are more draggy
Horses for courses. I have found the non contact types last reasonably well
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