polevault pole as mast

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bejay10
bejay10
5 posts
5 posts
16 Sep 2011 4:35am
Hi everybody, I have a 4M polevault pole and was wondering if it could be used as a mast.
Nikrum
Nikrum
TAS
1972 posts
TAS, 1972 posts
16 Sep 2011 10:10am
Bejay
You can use anything as a Mast down to a Spaghetti noodle but whether it is stiff enough is the question??
Certainly I've never handled a PV Pole but I should think it wouldn't be stiff enough to be efficient given the way they wind up under a mans weight. Wind Surfer Masts 100% Carbon Fiber are good but a little on the soft side for Racing.
Least ways those are my feelings. Next time I go over to the Mainland I will be buying some Aluminum Tubing to build a mast.
Ron
Gizmo
Gizmo
SA
2865 posts
SA, 2865 posts
16 Sep 2011 9:58am
Nikrum said...
Wind Surfer Masts 100% Carbon Fiber are good but a little on the soft side for Racing.


Please explain!!!

Nikrum
Nikrum
TAS
1972 posts
TAS, 1972 posts
16 Sep 2011 11:16am
Yeah! Chiko,
It may be just a matter of druthers and given the way Occum's Razor performs and looking at footage which I can't seem to load into YouTube. The mast appears a little soft and requires a lot of effort to raise a wheel. I have stated before that CF tends to wind up under gusts and release that effort at a more manageable power. Given that this is my experience and I have no one to compare notes with directly?? Hey what else can I ass/u/me.
Ron
Gizmo
Gizmo
SA
2865 posts
SA, 2865 posts
16 Sep 2011 12:29pm
Nikrum said...
The mast appears a little soft and requires a lot of effort to raise a wheel. I have stated before that CF tends to wind up under gusts and release that effort at a more manageable power. Given that this is my experience and I have no one to compare notes with directly?? Hey what else can I ass/u/me.
Ron


Is it the mast or the chassis?
If the chassis flexes to much it gives a comfy ride buts often limits lifting of the wheels.
Its ALL about balance between the rig and chassis
Chook2
Chook2
WA
1249 posts
WA, 1249 posts
16 Sep 2011 12:07pm
Is it the mast or the chassis?
If the chassis flexes to much it gives a comfy ride buts often limits lifting of the wheels.
Its ALL about balance between the rig and chassis


Nothing to do with it's axle loading, hey big fella?????

Mine suffers from the same trait of a larger mass.
Nikrum
Nikrum
TAS
1972 posts
TAS, 1972 posts
16 Sep 2011 2:24pm
No it ain't the Chassis and if I could upload the footage you would see that. There is a bit of flex in the axles but not what you might think. #" Water Pipe doesn't twist all that readily.
Ron

Gizmo
Gizmo
SA
2865 posts
SA, 2865 posts
16 Sep 2011 2:05pm
Lifting wheels and going fast are at opposite ends of the land sailing spectrum...
If you want a yacht to lift wheels and go slow use a fuller sail, by lifting wheels it actually slows you down. [but great for spectacular pictures ]
It all comes down to the use of "Energy" which in our case comes from the wind....
the more energy used to lift wheels etc the less available to be used for forward motion.
A stiffer mast will often give more drive to the yacht BUT a stiffer mast also shakes the sail and makes it less efficient. [finding the balance]
bejay10
bejay10
5 posts
5 posts
16 Sep 2011 3:17pm
As i've never sailed before, I think I would like to keep all wheels on the deck for now, so a softer mast might work for me, so I've got nothing to lose then, I'll give it ago.
nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
16 Sep 2011 8:16pm
It's actually quite a clever idea -- you could probably use an unmodified windsurfer sail without having to unpick and reshape the luff.

landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
16 Sep 2011 8:18pm
bejay10 said...

Hi everybody, I have a 4M polevault pole and was wondering if it could be used as a mast.

im sure it could , at 4m it is on the short side.what is the diameter.
do a search on the windsurfing section , or here in landyachting about the windsurfer mast bend measuring system (CMS) then follow the instructions and get a number, we can then judge further.
nebbian will probably give you the link shortly

nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
17 Sep 2011 8:24am
As requested:

www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Windsurfing/General/Masts-and-IMCS/

You can measure it yourself with a couple of sawhorses and a 30 kg weight.


IMCS = (Overall Length)cubed, divided by [(Mid-Point Deflection) X (465)squared]

All measurements are in cm.

Nikrum
Nikrum
TAS
1972 posts
TAS, 1972 posts
17 Sep 2011 10:40am
Hi Neb's,
By deflection are you saying that the Mast should be seated at the Mid Point and bottom on the Saw Horses and the weight suspended from the Top? Hm! That sounds similar to the way I compared Fly Rods and worked out their actual Weight Classification..

Ron
nebbian
nebbian
WA
6277 posts
WA, 6277 posts
17 Sep 2011 11:19am
Nikrum said...

Hi Neb's,
By deflection are you saying that the Mast should be seated at the Mid Point and bottom on the Saw Horses and the weight suspended from the Top? Hm! That sounds similar to the way I compared Fly Rods and worked out their actual Weight Classification..

Ron



Hi Nikrum,

Almost -- you place the sawhorses so that they support the ends of the mast, and suspend the weight in the middle.

However the IMCS does not measure bend curve. That is a measure of how bendy the top is in relation to the bottom. Two masts, both with an IMCS of 21 (standard for a 430 mast) can have different bend curves, and this will have a big effect on how the sail sets. I've had a sail that set like poo on one particular mast, while it set perfectly on a different mast with a different bend curve (but the same IMCS).

However windsurfers tend to be quite fussy with how their sails set due to the very fine balance between forces. Because land yachts have much better stability you can get away with mismatching masts to sails -- also recutting the luff will help here as you match the sail to the mast.
Nikrum
Nikrum
TAS
1972 posts
TAS, 1972 posts
17 Sep 2011 7:26pm
Thanks Neb,
It would seem from what you are saying that I haver been very lucky with my sail cuts. At one point (I think there are Pic's posted) I locked the mast out to the curve as suggested by Paul and found that my Gastra 5.3?mtr mast followed it near enough to perfectly. Loading it up Horizontally proved to be the difficult part as quite a bit of effort was needed to pull it around to the mark.
Ron
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