Hi, as I assume this is the rule base for the LL Mini, is there any restriction on luff pocket size?
Are camber inducers considered to be "fairings", or does no-one really care, just make and use what you want?

Gizmo may have got you a bit confused there Kiwi307
at the time we started the lefroy mini ( on a club level) the rules were length, width, seatbelt.
they still are
RULE 1a. MAXIMUM LENGTH (WHEEL CENTRES) 1640mm
RULE 1b. MAXIMUM WIDTH(OVERALL) 1510mm
RULE 2. Yacht must have an effective seat belt which must be worn correctly when sailing.
THe following are recommendations only.
yacht should have a brake.
Designs should take into account the Australian class 6 rules if the yacht is intended to be raced in that class
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we have tried to encourage experimentation in the lefroy minis whist keeping the wheelbase the same as the blokart so that there is a measure of equality when racing together.
the yacht in the building posts is called the "explorer"
there is still the skinny wheel experiment to do , the OTT experiment to do, the full body,wingmast experiment....................
lots to be going on with

Gizmo said...

The class6 rules were developed some 20+ years ago mainly to include the smaller yachts sailing like, free flight Manta, Sandpiper and others.
It was designed be a beginners class and to accomodate open development with many and various materials in construction.
The LL Mini was based on the same size of the Blokart and also fitted into class6 specs.
There has been some talk by some to try and restrict the class6 rules....but this is being pushed by a manufacturer in order to push "his" product and not allow for it being a developmental class.
The rig has only a few limitations but must use a round mast.
By you saying "fairing inducers" I assume batten control etc.? this wouldnt expect to be outside the rules, that were aimed at elininating complex wing masts and padded sails on these small beginners yachts.

i was not aware that there was an aussie manufacturer do you have any details

Hi



I've received complaints about this post, and it certainly is slagging off an association.

Not that you're wrong, and not that you're right, but these forums are not here for that type of discussion.

Please can you direct your concerns to the association, or an appropriate body to investigate with them.

Please read the forum policy regards Complaints About Businesses

www.seabreeze.com.au/Members/Help/ForumRules.aspx#h40

Your support is appreciated.

Thanks,
Laurie

Gizmo said...

I have edited my original posting as it obviously hit a raw nerve with some.
My intention was not to offend anyone.

My advice to all currently involved in Land sailing is to continue with the existing class 6 rules until everyone is sure that the best interests of ALL in the sport are acknowledged and represented at the level of a National Body.

Now some information on the so called NALSA mini rules, they are NOT the rules of NALSA they are the rules of a small group called the “US Mini Yacht Assn.” And were created in 2006 and intended for “manufactured” yachts ONLY and not for home built yachts.

Brian, I agree with your advice 100%.

Laurie, when somebody states fact it can hardly be called "slagging off". Also it seems a bit rough to me that a person or persons who say that everything discussed on this forum is bull dust, and, who have no input into the forum, can be given any credence by yourself to the point that you consider their wishes over those of the people who actively contribute in a positive way to this forum on a daily basis.

When there are people who "lurk" around the forum and then engage in a flurry of private emails and phone calls when something is said that they do not agree with, it says to me they are hiding something and are not being honest or just afraid to show their true colours.

It is my understanding that this is a free and open forum. If that is the case, and someone disagrees with or objects to something said, the person is quite at liberty state their point of view or objection openly on the forum.

Doing this might gain them some credibility. Running to the administrator complaining "they're picking on us again" certainly will not. We are a fairly self regulating lot on the Land Yachting forum. Cheers Cisco

kiwi307 said...

Gee, what did I stir up!

Nothing as the situation has been an open wound on the face of Australian Land Yachting for some time.

This is not an implied comment on the current situation, as I know nothing of what the organisation is currently doing.

None of us know either. The organisation flat refuses to communicate with the wider Land Yachting comminity.

Here in NZ the NZLYA is sub-terranean, As is ALSA

Now, back to the question.
Is it likely that there is a need to with these dimensions for the future, or do they fit anyway?
In a previous post you would also see that I was critical of bad rules, and the Promo surely are. If this (Mini, Class 6 or?)is to become a yacht in which people compete, why not start with a level playing field? Both Paul and I, and many others can relate tales where more was resolved in argument, and protest rooms rather than on the playing surface, and personally I can't be bothered with that.

Rhys, if you go to the earlier posts on both these classes you will see that the general intent of both class's rules is for them to be as nonrestrictive as possible and for them to be an entry level suitable for just about anybody and for them to be developmental classes in which builders can experiment with different construction and materials. Another intent is for them to be inclusive of and competitive with commercially built "mini" yachts such blokarts, Mantas, Siroccos, X-Sails, Ludics and Pottys without the higher financial expenditure.

At the Sandgropers Club it appears the blokarts and other mini yachts have been racing together quite happily. Different conditions favour different yachts

The "level playing field" has been achieved to it's ultimate with the blokart "One Design" concept which has been highly successful.

A class 6 or Lefroy Mini is the yacht for the individualist, the nonconformist, the experimenter, the tinkerer and the "I did it my way out of a dumpster person." (sounds like somebody I know)

Brian Reynolds (Gizmo) wrote the class 6 rules in 1985 (before the advent of most of the commercially built yachts) to fill that need for a more universal yacht. I think he would agree with what I just said.

I think most people who opt for a class 6 or LLF Mini would be more interested in having fun than winning a race. I hope this gives you another perspective. Cheers Cisco

Hi Cisco et al.
No need for another perspective, I have been around long enough to consider that fun is the primary reason for doing damned near anything.
As an aside, "the human is the only animal which does not realise that enjoying life is the only reason for being alive".
Taking the last sentence, if/when those of almost like mind gather it would be nice if at the end the comments were more like "Your yacht (insert whatever you like here) is great" if the "rules" (and I use that word in quotations on purpose) are common that may happen. If not, it's more likely to be "you only went better cos you have (again choose your preferred comment) bigger wheels, better bearings, better aero, wider axle, bigger sail etc etc.
Please do not take this as a personal criticism, however I have been at Blokart events where these comments have been used too. If you have followed my ad nauseum diatribes, you will know that I know Paul Beckett well, and that's why some of the sub-classes have been created. Animal Farm, the book has a very good phrase that could be used re equality.
You either like one design, respect it, or don't like at all, just like "born again christians", keep that in your own beliefs, and I will keep mine!
Again, this is NOT a personal comment, just a comment. Lets have a good long drink together! No Paul, not that many again!

Paul, can you put a carriage return in your "XXX"s as its making the posts too wide!

So
1640 wheelbase
1510 width
Seatbelt.
That's it.
Please confirm or deny!
I still don't like the rule that keeps you in the yacht. The injury from "duck waddling" was very painful, and if it had been much worse could have resulted in amputation.

confirm!
the beauty of these little yachts is they they are really light. If it wont move off under its own steam , you shouldnt bother trying to sail
If you lose a foot from waddling a mini , I'll buy you a crutch and a parrot, cisco will probably throw in the eyepatch for effect.
The blowies hve a really nice rul that says that you can only push on the wheels, add that to a flying start, and lifes good

Patch pics please..

Does that mean that Mini sailors are all one eyed?

In the land of the blind the one eyed monster reigns supreme. LOL

Not spending TOO much time in front of the computer are we

Back to the "slightly serious"
No mention of round mast in the "confirm or deny"?

landyacht said...

We have tried to encourage experimentation in the lefroy minis whist keeping the wheelbase the same as the blokart so that there is a measure of equality when racing together.
The yacht in the building posts is called the "explorer"
There is still the skinny wheel experiment to do , the OTT experiment to do, the full body,wingmast experiment....................
lots to be going on with

lachlan3556 said...

Good to see this discussion going ahead without major arguments. One question; what is "duck waddling" and how does it cause injuries

The old starting method for Australia, as expressed to me when I was the President of the NZ association, and when we had the first International event (1982) was that you had to have your seat belt fastened at the start of the race, and always after till the finish. With a static start the only way to start was to "waddle" with your feet. Remember with a class 5 you can't reach the wheels to push. Cos we had "guests" we went with the Aussie start rules as put to us at the time.
The injury resulted from trying a bit harder, my foot caught on the surface, dragged back under the axle, tore the achilles, and most of the tendons on the top of my foot, and broke a few bones too. VERY VERY painful. In the cold weather I still feel it 27 years later!