So BeeGee I can assume in overall you agree and have no major problems with my thoughts for a "National Body"
I find it interesting that you nitpick on the word "govern" I could have possibly used any of the following words;
Administer, conduct, direct, manage, regulate, reign, rule, superintend, supervise, guide, pilot, steer, brindle, check, command, control, curb, restrain, rule, sway.
But I chose "govern" because it described the intent better and while agree of your analyses of the word most words could / can be manipulated by a good wordsmith.
As we all know many people often take the same word and assume quite different meanings.
In regards to remote sailors, why have many remote sailors joined clubs that they could never actively participate in?
I think it would come back to my “touchy feely” word INCLUSION.
Why does “Cisco” drive 7 hrs to sail with his club?
Why have people in the top of Western Aust joined Perth clubs?
Why have people in remote S.A. joined the Adelaide club?
I think the answer is inclusion, the communication with others with similar interests, and to feel part of a larger group, etc.
The internet and to some degree the “Seabreeze site” has provided some resolve to problem but still doesn’t replace the concept of an organized body or club.
This is why the “Seabreeze Landsailing Group” and “Remote / Location Isolated Australian Land Sailors” were put up as suggestions some time ago.
With people sailing different types of yachts, most remote sailors still wish to conform to national / international standards.
Prior to the internet this information was only passed on through the club system.
I hope this answers your questions and puts more light on the subject.

Wheelnut,

My intention was not to nitpick on the word "govern", in fact the word itself is fine. Whatever word you use, the is a fundamental attitude of a national body that needs to be set correctly. I admit I don't know the full details (and don't wish to know), but I suspect a big part of the problems that beset ALSA was that they forgot that they were there to serve their membership, not rule over them. This problem arises when there is political turmoil within an organisation and it tends to focus inwards, rather than outwards. It loses sight of why it is there in the first place.

Your points on remote members and Cisco's 7 hour drives provides an important insight into what remote members need. First, it is not something a national body can provide. My suggestion is that you find the closest local club and hook up with them. Unfortunately, the nature of land sailing is such that it is not something you can do via email - you have to be physically present if you want to sail and race with other people. You could create your own local club, but you may find that you are the only member. A national body may allow you and other remote members to be a part of a club, but apart from giving you a warm and fuzzy feeling of being "included", it won't be able to overcome the problems of distance. Take Cisco as an example. He has a 7 hour drive to catch up with the Central Qld Blokart Club. If he was a part of a national club with members in Broome, Port Augusta, Mildura, and Katherine, he would be even further away. In my opinion, he is far better off being a part of the Central Qld Blokart Club than any national body targeting people in remote areas.

At the end of the day, if you still see a need for a club to support people living in remote areas, the answer is simple - start one. Don't just sit back and wait for somebody else to do it for you.

Brian

Wheelnut,

I think you have missed the point. Of course a national body should promote all classes in an even-handed way. The simple reality is that it probably won't, not because of any malevolence, but simply because the larger and more demanding ones will get the attention at the expense of the others. It is simple human nature. Have you ever heard the expression that "the squeaky wheel gets the oil"?

If you have a body made up of multiple groups, then each group will basically operate as a stand-alone entity and the overarching body might as well not exist. This brings things back to what I initially suggested.

If you bothered to look at what I have done on a national blokart association, you would see that it did take into account the diverse locations of the participants and ensured that being remote to a meeting did not result in a lessened engagement.

At no stage have I said that you opinion is worth less because you don't live in the city. Where do you get this crap?!

I have no idea what problems you had with ALSA. I have never had anything to do with them, so I don't see the relevance in our discussion. Anyway, they can't stop you starting a group of your own. They may have stopped you affiliating, but certainly as it was at the time, that would probably not have presented any difficulties - they didn't seem to do much anyway. I hope that has changed.

I have tried to help you, but it seems that you have a huge chip on your shoulder, believing that because you don't live in a city that the world is against you. It isn't! The sooner you ditch this counter-productive attitude, the sooner you will realise that there are people willing to help you (yes, even the ones who do live in a city), and the sooner you will get what you want. Until then, *you* will be the biggest obstacle to your own success. Groundhog Day will end the moment you decide to change and end it yourself.

Brian

Lake Lefroy Landyacht Club do meet ALL of these so why arent they allowed into ALSA?
They (LLLYC) apparently even collected the member fees and sent the cheque to ALSA only to have it returned?

WHY?

I have just been told that there is to be a new Australian Blokart Association up and running in the very near future, i persume that, that it is exactly what it means, a Blokart Association, not a landyacht Association,
As a Blokart owner and supporter why should we be bothered with all this in house Association fighting and crap that continues to be spoken about on this site, leave them to it, Blokarting in Oz is bg enough to look after itself, the last thing I want is for an association committee made up of non blokart owners telling me what i can and can't do with my Blokart whilst under their banner,

Have a look at it people, from what we have all heard ALSA made an absolute ASS of itself at Lake Gillies at Easter, and yet there has still been no accountability or even an appology posted on this site or any site i have seen from a ALSA committee member, now do we want these same committee members getting their incompertant hands on a Blokart competition, NO WE DON'T, leave them to there landyachts and leave them to to there secrecy, if they want to join us that's fine but would expect they will need to own a Blokart, if we were to join them i would expect we would have to run under ALSA, " NO THANKS "

I believe when you belong to the Harley Davidson Association you own a Harley, when you belong to the Blokart Association you own a Blokart, it's as simple as that.
From what i can see the rest of the Blokart world has not joined a Landyacht association, they create there own Blokart Association, so why should we here in Oz even entertain the idea of joining ALSA or alike, we shouldn't

Cheers
BK.

BeeGee said...

Oky,

I agree. The blokarting community is big and ugly enough to thrive on its own. I have no beef with ALSA itself, but to be blunt, we don't need them.

Brian

BeeGee,
Interesting that you have now shown your TRUE hand, at more than one stage in the last few days I thought you might have been been the right person to front up a new "United Landsailing Australia" obviously with your last posting your not!!
As you say you sail a blokart and not a landyacht may i suggest that you go to blokart.com/ (by the way its a quiet place over there)

seeya

C'mon Wheel nut, ease off!

This forum was set up for all landyachters and most definitely includes those who sail Blokarts. Its fine to have differences of opinions, but you do not have the right to tell people to leave this forum!

The way i see it Wheelnut, is the reason the Blokart forum being as you put it quite is because it is there to inform people and not be used as a tool to antagonize pleople, as we all know it doesn't take much to pee someone off while sitting behind a keyboard

This Association Topic seems to contain a hell of a lot talk but bugger all action,

From what i can see ALSA is still plagueing your Landyachting faternity, be constructive people, don't just talk about it on a forum, sort it out, get some answers from these committee members,
Tell them what you as a sailing community want, if they don't listen or can't deliver then maybe you guys have to start your own,
Questions need to be asked and ANSWERS need to be given, if ALSA can't at least give you that sort of corrospondence, then ask yourselves, do you really want these people to run your sport, i know i wouldn't, but again that is my personel opinion,
Don't you guys want to know the reason why the Lake Lafroy Club not accepted, i'm dame sure i would, "questions need to be asked an answered"

Maybe this could be a good project for you Wheelnut, something constructive for you to dig your teeth into, gathering up a few quetions to be answered and then then informing all concerned through the correct channels!!!! someone needs to do it?

As a Blokart owner i'm excited to hear that we will have our own association up and running in the near future, constuctive comments and support by people like BeeGee make the process of moving the association forward that much easier.

Best of luck with yours, Landyachters

Cheers
BK

Hills,

I don't dout for one minute that this forum has been benifical to many a person for various different reasons but if you read between the lines me old mate, you'll understand that i'm knocking the forum at all, just purely stating a fact.

Cheers
BK

cisco said...


I think the Australian "Yachting Association" is a good structural model for us to emulate but I do not think it would be beneficial for us at all to be part of it.

The AYA includes more "One Design Clubs and Associations" than you can poke a stick at.

So the question STILL is "Will ALSA open itself to all classes of land yachts and communicate with the wider land sailing community on a free and open forum such as this one (the obvious choice)."

And the blokart forum. If you haven't lost your tongue ALSA, why do you not talk with us?

I sincerely thank you for your last post Susan and your ongoing efforts.

The AYA INCLUDES more "One Design Clubs and Associations" than you can poke a stick at.

If that works for them, is there some reason why it can't work for us?

Why does Cisco join a Blokart Club that is a 7 hour drive away? 1. Because he can and WANTS to, because that club is inclusive in that it accepts membership of sailors of other than blokarts even though Cisco currently is sailing a blokart only. (If it has wheels, a sail and goes fast I don't care what you call it.) 2. A highly favoured sailing site (Farnborough Beach, Yeppoon) is about halfway between us. 3. The low cost of telecommunication today enables me to be present at club meetings.

Why do people form/join clubs? Is it not to engage with like minded people?

Why do people form/join forums? Could be the same answer as above. May be not.

What is a "forum". Concise Oxford Dictionary, Fourth Edition 1951, reprint 1956 (the year television arrived in Australia and the start of the bugger up of the English Language), noun (Rom. Ant.) public place, market-place, place of assembly for judicial & other business, esp. at Rome; place of public discussion;court, the law courts, (fig. the forum of the concience etc. [L]

Let us keep it nice and stick to discussion, Ladies and Gentlemen.

Just remember two things. Lord Laurei wears the big butt kicking out boots and nothing succeeds like a budgie.
Cheers Cisco.

Promo girl said...

Status of ALSA - to my knowledge committee remains the same and my understanding will remain so until the 2010 Nationals in Perth when an AGM is held. The current ALSA committee chooses not to use this forum for a medium of information exchange. Perhaps they will use the ALSA website when that is finished?

I’m trying to get my head around the letters AGM doesn’t this mean Annual General Meeting.
And “annual” meaning yearly is that right?
Well if there was no AGM held in 2008 does it mean the last one was held in 2007? and you’re now saying the next will be in 2010?
And that’s only if they want to have a meeting.
This would have to be some kind of joke right? It would be funny if it wasn’t serious.
Would we accept this sort of thing from government, business, schools, etc? NO!!
I would have thought that the clubs belonging to ALSA have a duty to act on this inaction and stupidity.
Why on earth are club members paying membership fees to an organization that basically doesn’t exist?
This is in my opinion; it’s a strange way to run an organization
There appears to be no accountability by the existing committee members, holding a position DOES hold some responsibility.

Come on guys pass the batten on to people that ARE going to do the right thing by the sport.

Maybe you are thinking that we all will sit back and say nothing until 2010?
Or are you prepared to put up with the ever increasing level of anger from others?

Thanks for your opinion.
Many times in life questions need to be asked, and to get truth in the matter they need to be at times asked anonymously .
Often the ONLY way to avoid reprisals and retaliation.
The committee hasn’t posted on the forum let alone going to answer tricky questions are they?
Just a few more things to think about in the subject of AGM’s
Have the financial dealings been audited since the last AGM which is more than a year ago and have those been presented to the appropriate Government body as ALL incorporated bodies need to do this.
If not why not?
Or do we also need to wonder about the financial dealings of this incorporated body with the lack of openness that they are currently showing?

If you think we are the only sport with problems at the moment, have a look at some of the other sections of Seabreeze.

Hi All,
Seems like I have upset someone again by daring to comment on this forum about ALSA.
What follows is the unedited contents (except for bold italics) of an email I received today from phoenixlandsail.

The first line is the message, and the rest was my response to a tirade of emails I had been recieving from the same party prior to the ALSA Lake Gillies fiasco. Note the date.
[i]

[[Contents of PRIVATE email removed - moderator]]

One might assume "suppress" means "surprises". If it does, I can't wait. Surprises are what makes one learn how to think on one's feet.

The biggest surprise would be ALSA actually coming out of the closet.

If I get any more good emails like this one, I will surely copy and paste them onto the forum so that we all know which page we are on.

[[It is not appropriate to post private emails in a public forum - moderator]]



Adios Amigos, Cisco

cisco said...

If I get any more good emails like this one, I will surely copy and paste them onto the forum so that we all know which page we are on.

Please don't. A private email is intended as a private email, and that's something we respect here on seabreeze.com.au.

Thanks,
Laurie

It's interesting how a thread seems to go cold, plenty of people reading but no one responding.
Let me drop some more pieces into the picture for the landsailing community, as I have said
"I have NO hidden agenda my ONLY interest is for a vibrant sport to exist"
I wish the same could be said for some committee members of ALSA,
For example have a look at this site.

http://www.phoenixlandsailing.com/Pheonix_Landsailing_Frameset.htm
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"The launch of the Phoenix Swift has been delayed for a couple of months.
Due to the Australian mini yacht class rules coming into line with the international rules the Phoenix Swift will now have a 5.0 and a 3.8 metre sail."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So when did these rules change? Or when is it right to change the class rules to suit the yachts YOU manufacture?

I thought it was class 5 & 6 and Blokarts sail in Australia?

And another case, a committee member in fact the president of ALSA is selling plans of the "Pacific Magic" which are available FREE on Seabreeze

Here is the link to the FREE PLANS
www.seabreeze.com.au/Articles/Land%20Sailing/Original-Pacific-Magic-Plans-by-Paul-Day_1514690.aspx

Here is the link if you wish to pay for the same thing
www.adelaidelandyachtclub.com/
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

? Plans The Adelaide Land Yacht Club has plans for sale by mail order for the" Pacific Magic" and the" Australian Fed 5. Both of these yachts are designed for high- speed racing and to conform to the class 5 international design parameters. Low maintenance requirements and simple construction adds up to conform to a machine that gives maximum fun for minimum work more time sailing ).All welded parts are steel to eliminate the need for specialist alloy tubing is use for axle tubes and the mast and the spars to keep weight to a minimum.

To Order plans contact the person below.

David Rose, President of Adelaide Land Yacht Club ?2003
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I think this is a bit ironic the ALSA committee don't wish Lake Lefroy LYC to be members but will sell the plans Designed and drawn by Paul Day from LLLYC.

And we ALL saw how rapidly the Blokart dealers came out of the woodwork when a new club showed interest in starting up and the $$$$ on the horizon

It seems money is the focus of many people in this sport.

As I have mentioned before "Come on guys pass the batten on to people that ARE going to do the right thing by the sport".