alternative association

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lachlan3556
lachlan3556
VIC
1066 posts
VIC, 1066 posts
14 Nov 2008 12:23am
Gotta hand it too you Wheelnut, good job keeping and eye on things. Raised my eyebrows that such a substancial (I think) happening was occuring with no wider community consultation (unless those members of clubs here arent spilling the beans for those of us only at Seabreeze )


I wouldn't worry about the lake Makoan crew only sailing blokarts, I for one am hoping to oneday sway them to the dark side with other classes/designs. Working on my latest addition, a show-off, sleek, nice looking yacht currently under construction. I however agree Blokarts are the easiest way to get their club going again.


Does anyone know how much the ALSA fees are for individuals and a club (educated estimates are ok)?
hills
hills
SA
1622 posts
SA, 1622 posts
13 Nov 2008 11:59pm
$5 per person
BeeGee
BeeGee
VIC
99 posts
VIC, 99 posts
14 Nov 2008 10:09am
wheelnut said...


And we ALL saw how rapidly the Blokart dealers came out of the woodwork when a new club showed interest in starting up and the $$$$ on the horizon


The Melbourne Blokart Club assisted the Lake Mokoan guys. I am not a dealer and never have been. The main attraction was the formation of a new club and having some more colleagues to race.

It may be a novelty for you, Wheelnut, but try getting your facts straight before commenting.
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
14 Nov 2008 6:54pm
BeeGee said...

wheelnut said...


And we ALL saw how rapidly the Blokart dealers came out of the woodwork when a new club showed interest in starting up and the $$$$ on the horizon


The Melbourne Blokart Club assisted the Lake Mokoan guys. I am not a dealer and never have been. The main attraction was the formation of a new club and having some more colleagues to race.

It may be a novelty for you, Wheelnut, but try getting your facts straight before commenting.


Bloomin' good work MBC
hills
hills
SA
1622 posts
SA, 1622 posts
14 Nov 2008 8:48pm
Yeah well done MBC! I thought some on here might have scared them away, but you brought them back!
BeeGee
BeeGee
VIC
99 posts
VIC, 99 posts
14 Nov 2008 10:14pm
hills said...

Yeah well done MBC! I thought some on here might have scared them away, but you brought them back!


They are a great bunch of guys who will be experimenting with some interesting types of events. They prove the value of having some outsiders join the sport to add fresh ideas.
wheelnut
wheelnut
WA
90 posts
WA, 90 posts
14 Nov 2008 9:02pm
BeeGee,
I am sorry if you had taken offence by my posting about blokart "dealers" comming out of the woodwork maybe the word might have been better said as blokart "community" have come out of the woodwork.
But I just got a little sceptical with a rapid string of postings from the blokart community, some of them have been watching seabreeze for some time in silence just waiting to pounce!
Mind you the first posting of yours on seabreeze was a fairly full on sales pitch for blokarts, many others also found the sales pitch was full on.

So I made the assumption "That you sell the sport of blokarting like a blokart dealer, Talk like a blokart dealer, and promotes blokarts like a blokart dealer, you would probably be a blokart dealer" Ok I was wrong but you would have to admit you do promote blokarts very well?.
In the thread of the new club most other people were promoting the sport of landsailing and not just a specific class of landyacht.
Its also interesting to note that the people that rapidly promoting blokarts at that time haven't made a posting since.

Just to put this on the record "I think Blokarts are a great Landyachts" and suit one design landsailing extremely well.

Back to the subject that we are currently on "alternative association" it seems that most people are commenting on this subject are not reading the material and links I am posting to put my point across. pity!!
BeeGee
BeeGee
VIC
99 posts
VIC, 99 posts
14 Nov 2008 11:52pm
Wheelnut,

If you read the original guy's posting, he was enquiring about blokarts, not land sailing in general. It was those trying to swing him away from blokarts that were doing the real sales pitch.
cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
15 Nov 2008 3:58am
A blokart is a landyacht no matter which way you look at it.

If it takes a blokart to get someone into land sailing, or a bunch of them to get a land sailing club up and running, more power to them I say.

A serious land sailor will soon reach the limitations of a blokart and at least desire, if not move into, something bigger, better, faster. Good for the sport overall.

Criticism of blokart dealers or users eager to fill the gaps is then hardly justifiable.

Given the claims by trumpy of X hundreds of them having been sold into the Australian market and the number of them generally observed in use, it would appear there are enough unused secondhanders around to economically supply the market for fledgling LAND SAILING Clubs. Cheers Cisco
BeeGee
BeeGee
VIC
99 posts
VIC, 99 posts
15 Nov 2008 8:51am
cisco said...

Given the claims by trumpy of X hundreds of them having been sold into the Australian market and the number of them generally observed in use, it would appear there are enough unused secondhanders around to economically supply the market for fledgling LAND SAILING Clubs. Cheers Cisco


Actually, the second hand market is pretty dry. I am constantly asked about the availability of second hand blokarts, but have to disappoint. The ones that do come up are from people replacing their old kart with a new one.

The notion that people 'upgrade' to a bigger and allegedly faster land yacht is a myth. I'm not saying it never happens, but if it does, it is extremely rare.
lachlan3556
lachlan3556
VIC
1066 posts
VIC, 1066 posts
15 Nov 2008 12:45pm
BeeGee said...

The notion that people 'upgrade' to a bigger and allegedly faster land yacht is a myth. I'm not saying it never happens, but if it does, it is extremely rare.



I imagine this is due to the lackof commercially available landyachts, building one oneself appears to be a big turn-off for many, unfortunately. This and the fact such a (relatively) large support and interaction group exists for Blokart use.
hills
hills
SA
1622 posts
SA, 1622 posts
15 Nov 2008 6:48pm
I agree and also think that its similar motor sport. There is a huge number of people into go-cart racing but only a small percentage then move into a class of car racing (I was going to say V8 supercars, but didn't want to imply class 5 is like that ). Even if only 1-5% move into class 5 I think that would be great for both classes.
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
15 Nov 2008 9:46pm
the problem onlefroy is that the now impoverished BLOKARTERS have to hae the choice of spending on lots of bling to catch a LEFROY MINI or just building a MINI to keep up
BeeGee
BeeGee
VIC
99 posts
VIC, 99 posts
16 Nov 2008 1:58am
landyacht said...

the problem onlefroy is that the now impoverished BLOKARTERS have to hae the choice of spending on lots of bling to catch a LEFROY MINI or just building a MINI to keep up


If the Lefroy Mini is so fast, why does a blokart have to be 'crippled' to race them (e.g. no pod, etc)?
Gizmo
Gizmo
SA
2865 posts
SA, 2865 posts
16 Nov 2008 7:48am
Paul its not fair, you have to add a pod to the mini to keep it equal.
Arjay
Arjay
VIC
267 posts
VIC, 267 posts
16 Nov 2008 9:51am
tsk tsk Paul!!! You antagonist you!!(sarcasm included) Blokarts and Mini's are different beasts!!

Just like an NS14 and a Javelin are even though they are both 14feet. or you could be a Dennis Connor and take a catamaran to sail a monohull. (woops no Kiwis on here is there?)

And by the way, when are you guys having another major event on Lefroy (like Pacrims) Love to get back there and sail on that surface!!

Hmmm maybe 2011 Blokart Nationals???

oh I'm just havin fun, and trying not to crash too hard when I'm going too fast, although the waters of Sandy Point last week were alot less harming to me and the kart!! Made a good bow wave though!

Russell (still drying out from the states)!
landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
18 Nov 2008 8:48pm
Arjay said...

tsk tsk Paul!!! You antagonist you!!(sarcasm included) Blokarts and Mini's are different beasts!!

Just like an NS14 and a Javelin are even though they are both 14feet. or you could be a Dennis Connor and take a catamaran to sail a monohull. (woops no Kiwis on here is there?)

And by the way, when are you guys having another major event on Lefroy (like Pacrims) Love to get back there and sail on that surface!!

Hmmm maybe 2011 Blokart Nationals???

oh I'm just havin fun, and trying not to crash too hard when I'm going too fast, although the waters of Sandy Point last week were alot less harming to me and the kart!! Made a good bow wave though!

Russell (still drying out from the states)!

Yes they are, arnt they. When I started building LEFROY minis the plan was and still is to use the overall dimensions as a basis for equality for racing . It was a good decision and we ( LLLSC) still hold to that . with progress in design and some positive experimentation we have managed to move beyond the yardstick originall set by the parameter.. perhaps we will have to start making LEFROY mini sailors run with one underinflated tyre to make them equal again.On the one occasion that good fast LEFROY minis and Blinged out blowies have sailed together It was the concensus of the mini owners that the yachts were equal.. The Blokarters who were there( LAke GILLES) are more than welcome to disagree. in fact,bring it on[}:)]
last week I raced lefroy minis and a BLOKART to get the feel of them since Im going to be competing in few months. THE BLOKART was stock stainless wth a 4m sail, and sadly I have to say they feel like sailing a wet sock. I now understand why you add all the carbon and pods.
Please note , that the thought of racing in a large fleet of wet socks will still be great, due to the equality of the socks.
2011 sounds Great. I would suggest that the Queens Birthday (I hope shes still with us then)weekend in late sept/early Oct is best for weather and wind. The club area is now much improved for camping , and the run in time would be ideal.
Our club would be happy to think about this, on the proviso that I get to set the course for the marathon no wimpy single laps next time

landyacht
landyacht
WA
5921 posts
WA, 5921 posts
18 Nov 2008 8:59pm
BeeGee said...

landyacht said...

the problem onlefroy is that the now impoverished BLOKARTERS have to hae the choice of spending on lots of bling to catch a LEFROY MINI or just building a MINI to keep up


If the Lefroy Mini is so fast, why does a blokart have to be 'crippled' to race them (e.g. no pod, etc)?

well now me old fruit thats a posting subject of its own. THe LEFROY mini rules are simple. the subject of glad wrapping and soggy nappies for seats or humungous spinnaker sails doesnt get a mention. nothing , nada,zip..
You would be refering to the ever changing ALSA mini rules, which even I cant keep up with
With the LEFROY mini we set a course to see what we could develop and we have only just set sail . eventually they will start to cost a bit to build, but we havent got anywhere near that point yet. ( still at the 3 minis for the price of a blowie stage)
The blokart issue is an ALSA one that needs to be taken up with them, although to be honest , it would be more condusive to discuss it with a future commitee , not the present one.





Hmmmmmmm , a pod.................

cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
18 Nov 2008 11:50pm
This discussion reminds me of the good old days in Darwin in 1974.

We were all riding motor bikes then and when an arguement arose as to whose bike was faster, it was "Right, next first Sunday of the month, Noonamah drag strip (the old emergency strip next to the highway about 3 mile past the pub), wear jeans, leather jacket, shoes and a full face, pay your 50 cent entry fee and we will sort it out."

Since then of course, insurance companies, litigous mentality and blame laying have totally buggered that kind of impromtu sportsmanship.

The main point here is that many blokart riders need to realise that there is "One Design Racing" and there is "Class Racing" and one does not necessarily preclude or exclude the other.

Victory in "One Design Racing" is mainly determined by skill and tuning. Victory in "Class Racing" brings one other element into play. That is innovation and "Innovation" is the industry of the future.

Within a strict but simple set of "Class Rules", ie, length, breadth, weight and sail area as an example, it is possible with "Innovation" to produce yachts with quite considerably differing performances.

One may favour light airs, one may favour heavy airs and one may (temporarily, thanks to innovation) favour all airs. Example the Bob Miller/Ben Lexen America's Cup design that ripped the Cup out of the Yank's hands.

What my mind is pictureing here is a showdown at the hoedown between LLF Minis and Blokarts (blinged or otherwise).[}:)]

Only question is where and when??
Cheers Cisco.
aus230
aus230
WA
1660 posts
WA, 1660 posts
19 Nov 2008 12:35pm
Right on Cisco, this is the reason that I like class 5, it gives plenty of scope for playing around within the specs
Cheers
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