From my bit of the world most people go "you do what?", land sailing, "on water?", no on land, "how can you sail on land?", with wheels....end of conversation. No one is interested as I guess theres no tv, electronics, or sofa involved. And unfortunately I can't say come along and have a sail with us due to public liability insurance. I can offer them to look but not touch. The club owns a 2 seater which needs renovating which has been used once in a year. And we have links to a couple of activity sites to try for a day but no takers. Again it's not 'trendy' like kite buggies are at the moment so not a sniff

Cheers Col

Good Idea Beachball.

Just over 10 years ago before we all had the tinternet it was difficult to find anyone who knew anything about sandyachts in Ireland let alone find a yacht and someone to sail with ! There were active clubs up to the mid 80's and after lots of digging I found some of the former members, asked lots of questions got lots of info and said "OK now I understand ".

I was also lucky enough to find or be found by another person looking for a landyachter anywhere on this Island. Both of us had older Class 5 yachts which we loved to sail and we duly found a few others who had the same passion and renewed their enthuasism by getting them back out sailing.

However : In the back of our minds was the ringing sound of what the former clubs had explained which was:
The sport of racing C5s (old style A frame) got too competitive in the 80's in Ireland and scared new people and it became like "cheque book sailing" ie, spend lots of money and go faster ! It ended pretty quickly it seems and people stopped travelling to events outside the country and then within the country. Also the age profile was going up .

With this in our minds and the realisation that we were not very competitive in our older C5's when we went abroad nor had we the money to keep upgrading - we decided to have a change of tack.

We went back to basics -and got a miniyacht ! We got families and friends to try the non scary non threathening miniyachts and discovered that father and son combinations loved them and the girls didn't half mind them either . Soon we had 20, 30 , 40, 60 - 70 - 80...........etc miniyachts in various parts of the country.( We have never managed to get more than 30 or so out together.)
We now had the "tinternet" and e-mail, so we paired people off by locality so they knew of someone closest to them to sail with if they wanted. We sent out encouraging e-mails of who where and when and we meet up in 2s 3s or 10s etc.
We go on an annual pilgrimage ( few days hols) to sandyachting heaven in County Kerry , SW Ireland every May with some of the UK sandyachters and others who love the craic (Irish for fun atmosphere) and the social.

When the National Association was revived in the early 00's by the Class 8 guys they asked us to come along, we did and we got involved and helped each other out on the beach. We got involved in committees and now its the IPKSA instead of the IPKA ! ( www.ipksa.com or " IPKSA " on facebook. )
Having together managed to obtain the correct insurance and permissions we have for several years worked together to have an official event on a beach somewhere in Ireland each month from Sept to May where we race, assist each other and introduce the sport to new places and new people..

The Class 8 guys soon realised that when it was wet or very gusty we were still out having the fun in our miniyachts but they were grounded - so now many of them also sail miniyachts too ! Then the Irish Blokart Club started joining us for the miniyacht racing (it boosted the numbers for us both to sail with ) and we have had some great fun with over 30 races held last season !
We also got 1 then 2 ,then it was 10 old Seagull Standarts into the country and used them to compete in the UK, Euros and Worlds as well as at home and being a true one design we found ourselves right up there being competitive and winning now and then. More importantly we were meeting people who also loved the sport and we shared ideas and built contacts.

The Standart being a monotype yacht meant we didnt have to keep changing or upgrading as in other classes before.

Every time we have an event we get the press involved, we take lots of photos and video for the net , we get media involved when we do beach clean ups, go foreign etc etc raising the profile.
We always wave and acknowledge other beach users with a smile - they always smile and wave back - try it !

It takes a few dedicated individuals to keep people informed interested and involved , they are the glue that keeps the parts together. Where there are perceived problems or grieviences , air them and address them in a constructive manner . The aim always being to try and resolve problems in a win win fashion where possible and reviewing progress later.


Our focus on miniyachts has also helped to grow the Standart fleet to 11 and a number of class 5 s also but the big draw is miniyachts.
You only need a small area, it fits in a car trunk, family friendly etc etc.

Our class 8 pilots managed to organise and run a successful European Championship in 2005 on a shoestring at the 11th hour .- We persisted in spite of set backs and pushed hard through the contacts we made to get miniyachts as a FISLY class for years, we also did this by getting more involved in FISLY rather than just being a member country, and it happened !

We worked with others to get a miniyacht world championships with lots of countries involved - it happened this year with entries from 20 countries and the maximum of 80 yachts reached. Now the interest in the miniyacht class is huge and continues to grow ...bringing new people to the sport and those who left it back ! The new people progress to other classes and the other classes retire to minis !

Keep the faith and get your hands dirty . We cant promote our sport here very well by sailing on windy beaches when the tide is out - which is what we do best . Why ? because no one will see us ! .
We needed to get some attention in other ways - we did it !

We do know that there will be peaks and troughs in numbers but the hardcore who "make things happen" rather than "watching them happen" or saying "what happened" when its too late , will always keep plugging away with a smile !

Keep in touch with the worldwide landsailing community through the forums, facebook pages of FISLY, IPKSA, British Landsailing, etc etc

Most importantly -- keep the faith , you can and will do it !

Alan.


I hope someone gets some ideas from our experiences and enjoy our antics by searching youtube for IPKSA www.youtube.com/results?search_query=IPKSA&oq=IPKSA&gs_l=youtube.3..0.121.429.0.1129.2.1.0.1.1.0.49.49.1.1.0...0.0...1ac.Gu25k3auNS8

I think we have tried just about everything from time to time. But we have to keep at it.
I do not think cost has had a lot to do with it in Aus. All of our Class5 are club or home built. (aus230 has not cost as much to build as a standard blokart)) Compare Blokarts to trail bikes or even golf they are cheap in comparison and the same yacht can give years of service. The great thing about Blokarts is that you can go and buy one and go sailing the next day.

The mini's can be brought second hand but there are not a lot available so have to be built. This is not a problem as most of the parts can be sourced (windsurfer sails and masts) and Pauls / Clems mini plans are excellent and easy to follow).

Class5 is now a bit different there is a lack of plans for the newer style class5(Clen has posted a set of his 5) 26" wheels were a problem but I think we have demonstrated that they can be made cheaply(over a racing season I have found that they prove to be cheaper than wheel barrow wheels due to little tire wear)

The big problem now is the availability of mast material. There is none left in Aus that I can find. Not sure where we go with that one.

There have not been a lot of new class5 built that I know of. Paul has built a few,Bill has a new one and I have built 3 but that is about it. Most of the the yachts are brought as some one drops out of the sport, so the numbers remain stagnant.

The Sandgropers numbers are good with 10 to 20 yachts showing up to race regularly, they have gained a few new sailors over the last couple of years ,but unfortunately some of the older sailors have dropped out. They still attend to help run the event which is great.

One thing that is positive is that most of the people that get a taste of sailing stay with the sport for a long time. But the problem is still to get them into a yacht of there own as quickly as possible from when they first give it a try, otherwise they will come across there next interest and never get back.(may be we should have a second hand yacht ready of sale at each event)
Bit of a ramble, sorry
Cheers
aus230

you can't have that sort of attitude, (bang head against brick wall) and expect land sailing to progress past the point it is at the moment,, i think putting it out in the public eye with displays both static and sailing days would be a start,, if people don't know it exists then they can't make up their mind if they want to explore it or not, I know i have have a few "walk ups" when i have had my yachts out the front of my house or have had them on the trailer at a servo or car park,,I haven't seen many of those people again but at least now they know land sailing is around and i have done up flyers which i always keep in my car if someone asked me about the yachts i give them a flyer as well, at least it's something....as for the second hand yachts,,, there musst be a lot of yachts or parts of yachts around the place if land sailing was as popular as it once was, perhaps an effort to locate these yachts and put them on some sort of central register,,perhaps not the buy and sell section on here but if someone wanted a yacht but didn't have the time or ability to build their own we could just look on the register and see oh yeh there's one in WA or SA or where ever and perhaps some cooperation amongst the clubs to get it to where it's wanted.. dunno just a thought....

Public perception of land sailing.... Interesting Question.
Don't shoot me but these are my personal observations and don't want to create a slanging match or bunfight......

I have waited for a while to see what the opinion of others is but could it be a case of commitment or lack of it, let me explain.
I've been involved with water sailing and yacht clubs for more than 40 years and to be involved with that sport, there needs to be a high level of commitment i.e. many thousands of $$ for a yacht and annual club fees of $300+ per year (one of the cheaper clubs locally) so to be an active sailing member there is actually a hell of a lot of effort and commitment.
Land sailing on the other hand only requires a minimal outlay for the yacht and how often do we field questions on this forum of “Can I convert an old trampoline, street signs or recycled materials etc. into a yacht”?
And if that's the case the builder actually has very little commitment to the sport so therefore very little loss if they don't continue.
While it is true that most people tend to build their own yachts at small expense they very rarely factor in the cost of their time. If AUS 230 calculated his time at say $50 / hr his yachts would be valued at tens of thousands of dollars wouldn't they?
Also do 'Junker' yachts actually diminish the value of well made yachts, how many times has some one said “I'm building a Class5 yacht, I don't want to race it so I'm not going to build it to Spec”? This has now degraded every other TRUE class5 to equal virtual junk value and therefore lowers the perception of the sport. And how many of those builders actually hang around the sport long term anyway?..... Cheap in, no commitment ....off they go onto something else.

What would you expect the reaction at a water sailing club when some one turned up with a yacht built from a couple of packing crates, aluminium tube as a mast with poly tarp sails, would you expect them to be welcomed in or asked to move along down the beach a bit? Or would you turn up to a tennis club with grandpa's old wooden racquet that you've re strung with fishing line?

Ok most of the sailing locations that land sailors use are way out of public view (and that's hard to change) so how could the sport be made more visual?
Yachts on trailers travelling or stopped often poses questions being asked and I'm sure if 'Beachball' put his 'Sabre' yacht on a trailer and was parked at a servo station there would be many people come and look at it and ask questions conversely if he parked a trailer with 3-4 basic class tube framed yachts on it he would possibly get directions to the local tip or recycling centre.
So is it possibly a case of the yachts aren't 'Flash' enough these days or too rough in construction to encourage new people into the sport? Have a look at some of the Iceboating web sites for some WOW factor.
For example if you walked into a new car show room and there was 2 cars in there one was a Toyota Camry and the other was a Toyota 86..... Which would you look at first? Get my point!!!!!

Blokarts to some degree have re-sparked the sport but they also have a problem..... Yes they pack up nice and small and look great and have a WOW factor ....BUT no one sees them when they are travelling as they are in the back of the car or caravan. If the people have a sticker on the back of the car other blokart sailors know about it but do the rest of the public know what a blokart is if they have never heard of one before?

So have we all tried to make the sport SO cheap and accessible it actually might be killing it off?

Water sailing clubs are also finding the age of its members changing from the past, yes you get school age kids wanting to learn to sail and the baby boomers but not much in-between..... Why perhaps family life, young kids and other financial focuses in life.

Fully agree with the previous two posts, and points well made too. Out of sight out of mind and all that.
Getting the hard core group of people who are committed is the seed I think. Then creating the habit is the next bit! Same time and place next week etc etc.
Alan

Even with high profile few people bother to stop and ask questions. Whilst I used the top end of the Airport many stopped on the road side a couple of hundred yds off they rarely bothered to bothered to come in on the access road to view closer up. Those that did I would bring it up to them. On one occasion one person drove in onto the strip to get a closer look and I deliberately circled them demonstrating the agility of a Land Yacht. Not one person bothered to get out of their Car to ask about the sport. I know of two other Land Yachts, one is a massive two seater using a Hobby Cat Sail the other is, I think, a Seagull all Bolts and joints. The Big one I have seen on a trailer going places the smaller on runs Pegg's Beach. People walk these beaches but rarely bother to try to get a closer look. At one point, recently on Anthony Beach a 4WD came onto the beach and stopped for a look then took his dog for a run onthe beach so when he was nearly a K down the beach I decided to give chase, after a few minutes I managed to catch up and he speed-ed up and stayed with me for a short time and I left the vehicle for dead when he slowed for the dog I then spun Occum's Razor about and bought it back up the beach. Now if that wasn't an Apatite Whetter then what would be??
I do not wish to be seen as a pessimist but I have now decided to do my own thing and should some one decide to stop and ask and if the conditions are right I will even give them a go.. People are a Strange Kettle of Fish most of whom are not very curious and then there are a few of who are explorers that will go to new places and try new things whilst the others will Sit on their FAT Asses and do nothing but watch the Idiot Box, Drink Booze and get Fatter.. Shoot even the Gov't pretends to be concerned about their habits and the Health Haszards that they encourage. Yes! I agree that where and when we can get new membership we should but do not become despondent when you sift through a Beach of Sand or Cobbles to find one particular grain.

Ron