Bilge Pumps

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MorningBird
MorningBird
NSW
2711 posts
NSW, 2711 posts
10 Oct 2011 11:30pm
I have a small Rule (500GPH) auto bilge pump under my engine to remove any rain water or minor flows from the stern gland. It isn't an emergency pump, I have two good manual pumps for that.
The Rule pump often gets an air lock or something similar and runs but won't pump water. If I put water in the bilge and then turn it on its side it will start sucking and pumps very well. After it has pumped out and stopped, if I put water in the bilge within a very short time it will restart and pump normally. Usually, but not always, it won't pump if it has been some time since it last went.
The electrical side works fine, it just doesn't pump unless the air lock is cleared when it pumps fine, plenty of flow.
It only has about 1 metre rise and about 3 metre of hose to the outlet in the cockpit drains. I installed a non-return valve to keep the hose charged but no change.
I can't fit a bigger pump (which it doesn't need) due to hose size limitations where it passes through a number of not easily accessed bulkheads in the bilge.
Any ideas on why it air locks and what I can do about it?
Thanks
John
saltiest1
saltiest1
NSW
2575 posts
NSW, 2575 posts
10 Oct 2011 11:57pm
is it submersable? or is it a hose on the inlet side? i think the rule pumps are mostly submersable from memory so an air lock cant happen.
if its hose fed on the inlet, fit a check on the low end to keep it primed.
maybe it doesnt have enough depth of water prior to activation, causing it to suck air. does it run off float swithes or are they internal?
zilla
zilla
145 posts
145 posts
11 Oct 2011 9:57am
Could be a faulty float switch. I had an intermittent problem with a Rule setup and located the problem in the float switch. It is a sealed unit (costs about $60) but I cut it open anyway. The small spring inside was made of crappy steel (not stainless) and had rusted through. It was only 2 years old and just out of "warranty". Whitworths didn't want to know about it. I won't be buying Rule again.
MorningBird
MorningBird
NSW
2711 posts
NSW, 2711 posts
11 Oct 2011 5:18pm
The pump has an internal float switch. This isn't a problem as the pump motor turns on and off perfectly, the pump is running but doesn't pump when it has an air lock. It is submersible but even with the water level well above the pump it gets an air lock. It just occurred to me that there might be a vent near the top of the pump to let the air out so that the pump fills with water. I will check if there is and make sure it isn't blocked.
Rule pumps are regarded as the most reliable available, this spring pronlem is the first negative I have heard on them.
Ramona
Ramona
NSW
7757 posts
NSW, 7757 posts
11 Oct 2011 6:36pm
Rule submersibles are good value but I have broken a few over the years. Usual failure is the impeller, it eventually just slips on the ss shaft. Impeller picks up a bit of rubbish and jams in place. The domed ss screen that fits inside the lower case is a good investment. The 360's and 500 are cheap enough to buy and just throw away when they play up.

I would not bother with pumps with built in float switches. The only bilge switch worth buying is the Water Witch, cat No 84771 for $80 at Whitworths. This is the only switch that lasts in the bilges of trawlers.
An other alternative is an automatic washing machine water level switch mounted up under the deck with the switch being made with air pressure up a rubber hose from a suitable air chamber in the bilge water.
If you wish to keep buying the traditional float switches use an automotive relay to switch on the pump, this extends the life.
Charriot
Charriot
QLD
880 posts
QLD, 880 posts
11 Oct 2011 6:49pm
I had very similar problem. Narrow bilge and nearly 1m deep.
Got air lock, by the time I came back to boat, bat. dead.
Bought new bat. installed one way valve, next time
new bat. dead and took pump with it. Start again.
My fix was, fitted the switch just above the pump and no air-lock.

Before you install the floater / you can still use your pump, just
treated as no switch inside / give him I reckon the same lavel as
a OUTlet hose, make sure as ramona mention, switch has current rating,
otherwise needs relay/ selenoid to run a pump.
Just for a sake of it try your unit, let say in 20degrees angle/ tilted /
when switch is up and prop. down. have fun
Disralei
Disralei
NSW
127 posts
NSW, 127 posts
12 Oct 2011 12:10am
I would like your input as to what you think is the best solution to my bilge pump issue.

I have a 361 Beneteau Clipper, currently have a electric and manual bilge pump but not auto. Have had advice as to what would be best practice but the problem is that the Beneateau does not have a descent well to mount a Rule type pump in. I was considering putting an auto float mechanism onto the current electric pump that is Electrically/manually operated to make it auto, the electrician tells me that I would not be able to operate it manually if I was to do so, is he taking the piss, is he trying to take an easy way out or is he correct. I am no expert on this type of issue but would like to do a little "Due Diligence" prior to making up my mind as to the best practice.
To sit a Rule type bilge pump into the bottom of the hul (not the tiny well)l would require at least and inch or 2 of water to be there at all times before the switch would kick in, I look forward to your replies.

In advance thank you for your input.



Ramona
Ramona
NSW
7757 posts
NSW, 7757 posts
12 Oct 2011 8:26am
Disralei said...

I would like your input as to what you think is the best solution to my bilge pump issue.

I have a 361 Beneteau Clipper, currently have a electric and manual bilge pump but not auto. Have had advice as to what would be best practice but the problem is that the Beneateau does not have a descent well to mount a Rule type pump in. I was considering putting an auto float mechanism onto the current electric pump that is Electrically/manually operated to make it auto, the electrician tells me that I would not be able to operate it manually if I was to do so, is he taking the piss, is he trying to take an easy way out or is he correct. I am no expert on this type of issue but would like to do a little "Due Diligence" prior to making up my mind as to the best practice.
To sit a Rule type bilge pump into the bottom of the hul (not the tiny well)l would require at least and inch or 2 of water to be there at all times before the switch would kick in, I look forward to your replies.

In advance thank you for your input.






Yes he is full of sh?t. The Water Witch is your answer. No float so is mounted very low in your case. Operates by moisture touching a stainless steel plate on the outside of a sealed unit. Has a delay of about 11 seconds so that splashing does not keep switching on the pump and the same for switching off.
Directions for wiring up as you require is on all pump switch packaging.

http://waterwitchinc.com/online_cart/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=5

They are $80 at Whitworths or buy online for less than half!

Get a new electrician.
Disralei
Disralei
NSW
127 posts
NSW, 127 posts
12 Oct 2011 9:25pm
Hi Ramoana

Thank you for your input, Have checked out the product and it looks just the ticket.

Cheers.
Charriot
Charriot
QLD
880 posts
QLD, 880 posts
12 Oct 2011 10:14pm
Disralei of course manual - auto is normal. I was wondering if this would be any good idea. Just currently tested self -priming pump from Whit. works very good, and with delay switch - perfect. You can install pump where is good spot.
In my case no bilge at all, perhaps good for small or shallow bilges
where is rick air-lock,
Only self-prim. pump need good pre-filters.
cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
13 Oct 2011 1:03am
With electric bilge pumps I wire them up with a three way switch.

On, Off or Auto (float switch) and regularly check the float switch for correct operation.

If the float switch is too deep in the keel to get at by hand conveniently, use a straightened out wire coat hanger.

God bless the man who invented those things. It had to be a man. Right??
Disralei
Disralei
NSW
127 posts
NSW, 127 posts
13 Oct 2011 10:39pm
C
Disralei
Disralei
NSW
127 posts
NSW, 127 posts
13 Oct 2011 10:41pm
Thank you Cisco

The coat hanger thing, yes it was a man.

Albert J. Parkhouse
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