Forums > Sailing General

Engine

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Created by Shanty A week ago, 10 Jul 2019
Shanty
QLD, 393 posts
10 Jul 2019 6:40PM
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well I'm not trying to start another "Mono v Multi" or "who's smarter left or right handlers". But I am interested in what other engines You guys have had experience with. I have had experience with only 5 different brands.
1. Detroit Diesels (GM)
2. Perkins
3. Cummins
4. Cat
5. Gardner
i have heard good things about Yanmars as well.

Would love to know the most amount of hours you have seen on engines or outboards.

Just interested.
Regards,
Mick

lydia
879 posts
10 Jul 2019 5:59PM
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Your average Grandma" is very good save for price of parts

nothing compared to a gardner
end of story and I have owned two including one the "40" with 3000 original hours

loved my Perkins v8 (leopard tank engine)
510 cubic inch V8 that only made 165 hp but faaaarck they were big horses

preaenrlt loving the twin Ford leemans
parts are cheap and readily available and surprisingly economic for an early 1960 engine designed as a pump motor for coal mines

but I also white carpet in the engine room as a challenge to anyone who works in it
strange I know

cisco
QLD, 11219 posts
10 Jul 2019 8:28PM
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Kubotas are hard to beat for performance and reliability. Nanni and Beta engines are Kubotas.

Bristolfashion
VIC, 488 posts
10 Jul 2019 10:38PM
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When I did the RYA diesel course, the trainer commented that all of the well known brands were pretty similar in terms of performance, reliability & maintenance.

Cheers

Bristol

Shanty
QLD, 393 posts
10 Jul 2019 10:40PM
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lydia said..
Your average Grandma" is very good save for price of parts

nothing compared to a gardner
end of story and I have owned two including one the "40" with 3000 original hours

loved my Perkins v8 (leopard tank engine)
510 cubic inch V8 that only made 165 hp but faaaarck they were big horses

preaenrlt loving the twin Ford leemans
parts are cheap and readily available and surprisingly economic for an early 1960 engine designed as a pump motor for coal mines

but I also white carpet in the engine room as a challenge to anyone who works in it
strange I know



Interesting about the Gardner. I have limited experience with them. I took an old 45 foot wooden boat up to the "Bribie Classic Boat Regatta 2016" with my mate as skipper. The trip was from Wynnum manly to Bribie. I remember the old 6lx being cold. All the past engines (Detroit, perkins) ran at 78-80 degrees Celsius. The old Gardner was running at 58-60 Celsius. Nice and quiet ran happily at 1200rpm. That's all the experience I have with a Gardner. Have heard that they are fantastic though.

Loved The old Perkins 6354T. kept up on maintenance like any other engine. Never ever let me down not as smooth as the 6lx Gardner though.

The Detroit Diesel 12v92TT was a HELL of an engine. I would never recommend one for a pleasure boat. They are Loud, heavy, Powerful 2 stroke, thirsty and leak a little oil. The sound is incredible though twin turbo was insane.


But just down let it "Run Away" tell me if you get this much power from your 4 cylinder! 1:30


Cheers,
Mick

Shanty
QLD, 393 posts
10 Jul 2019 10:47PM
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cisco said..
Kubotas are hard to beat for performance and reliability. Nanni and Beta engines are Kubotas.


Thanks for that info never knew that. Only knew kubotas as "Tractor" engines.

Cabron
NSW, 255 posts
11 Jul 2019 12:26AM
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cisco said..
Kubotas are hard to beat for performance and reliability. Nanni and Beta engines are Kubotas.


+1
Both use the same kubota block then converted for marine use, buy spares from a tractor shop and save $$ Simple, solid and reliable. If I was to repower both would be at #1, then buy on price.

Ive heard Lombardini are also good, just don't know about spares availability, good power to weight.

The next question, often the weakest link.... sail or shaft drive? Both have pro/con, more differences in a cat though

Also got warned to avoid The Green Death of Volvo's.... no experience so can't say... Spares $$$ ???

Older donks, Bukh is as basic as it gets, just get robbed on parts in Oz, and not economic to run as thirsty if compared to others in class... weekends fine, but wouldn't want on a long passage in remote areas.

Yanmar is a stable, nice motor and probably #2 on repower list, beside too many wires/electrics on newer ones..some sail drives had issues, and if turbo... keep revs up to keep clean

No experience with Universal, though look really simple and easy to work on

Sole??? No idea

Has anyone ever heard of a converted Toyota( either Hilux or Old cruiser diesel ) Simple reliable old diesels.... parts everywhere... or is there something that just doesn't suit?? Size, running on angle??? No kits to marinize?

Electric with Genset and ****e loads of lithium is the future. Just cost/space prohibitive for smaller boats.

I dont think theres much in performance between most, power to weight would be the biggest difference , economy ... and price/availability of parts.

Just keep all well maintained and the right sized prop...all it should be reliable.


woko
NSW, 476 posts
11 Jul 2019 7:20AM
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Never heard of toyota being used. Diecon marinized Nissan industrial engines, I have the ed33 parts are ok

tired
24 posts
11 Jul 2019 5:52AM
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We have a 29 ft carvel hulled cruiser with a marinised hilux diesel,
Only had it 6-7 weeks, bought as a cheap project,
Followed us home,
was just after a outboard actually,

Also have a tamd 40 VP that over heats...naturally

lydia
879 posts
11 Jul 2019 6:21AM
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Small Sole are made by the company while larger ones can be Mercedes Benz.

Some latter small volvos were perkins bases while small Mercruiser diesel are usually Volkswagen based.

One thing to look out for is that yanmars will have mechanical fuel pump while marinzed industrial motors will have electric pump.
But this never seems to be problem though but I often being warned about it.

The straight 6 cylinder Yanmar is a Land Cruiser base and while not sure if this is correct but have been told that Yanmar make the blocks for Toyota.

twodogs1969
NSW, 904 posts
11 Jul 2019 8:24AM
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I can't complain about my ovlov Perkins based

termite
NSW, 266 posts
11 Jul 2019 8:46AM
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The universals are also Kubotas marinised in the US. I have a Universal M3-20B built in 1981 and its still going well. The WM diesels (Wichard Marine in Sydney) are also Kubotas and I haven't heard anything but praise for them. Bill

LooseChange
NSW, 1963 posts
11 Jul 2019 9:26AM
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lydia said..
Small Sole are made by the company while larger ones can be Mercedes Benz.

Some latter small volvos were perkins bases while small Mercruiser diesel are usually Volkswagen based.

One thing to look out for is that yanmars will have mechanical fuel pump while marinzed industrial motors will have electric pump.
But this never seems to be problem though but I often being warned about it.

The straight 6 cylinder Yanmar is a Land Cruiser base and while not sure if this is correct but have been told that Yanmar make the blocks for Toyota.


I was under the impression that the smaller Sole engines are Mitsubishi based. This came up recently in a thread on here, I think it was something to do with a gearbox engine combo.

Shanty
QLD, 393 posts
11 Jul 2019 10:39AM
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Never seen any. In some of the old "Moreton Bay Cruisers" like from before 1960. Had old Holden engines. I could see a Landcruiser working. Thought I read something about a 1hz in a 30 ft motor boat in an Afloat magazine. But I might be getting ahead of myself. Pretty reliable. On gumtree you see them on nearly 1,000,000 kms
regards,
Mick

shaggybaxter
QLD, 1665 posts
11 Jul 2019 11:11AM
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Shanty said..
Never seen any. In some of the old "Moreton Bay Cruisers" like from before 1960. Had old Holden engines. I could see a Landcruiser working. Thought I read something about a 1hz in a 30 ft motor boat in an Afloat magazine. But I might be getting ahead of myself. Pretty reliable. On gumtree you see them on nearly 1,000,000 kms
regards,
Mick




Made me think of the forklifts running around with the old holden 138 grey motor still going strong near 70 years later.

troubadour
NSW, 111 posts
11 Jul 2019 11:49AM
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Most marine engines except the gardiners etc are usually based on road engines. Yes the 6 cyl Yanmars are land cruiser engines etc etc etc

have had volvo genset that had perkins on the block. the Ox diesel outboards are GM car engines

Lazzz
NSW, 445 posts
11 Jul 2019 11:50AM
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shaggybaxter said..

Made me think of the forklifts running around with the old holden 138 grey motor still going strong near 70 years later.


Ahhh, the old Holden 138 grey motor.

First motor I "worked on" - bigger cam, twin carbs & extractors. Them were the days!!

lydia
879 posts
11 Jul 2019 10:45AM
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LooseChange said..

lydia said..
Small Sole are made by the company while larger ones can be Mercedes Benz.

Some latter small volvos were perkins bases while small Mercruiser diesel are usually Volkswagen based.

One thing to look out for is that yanmars will have mechanical fuel pump while marinzed industrial motors will have electric pump.
But this never seems to be problem though but I often being warned about it.

The straight 6 cylinder Yanmar is a Land Cruiser base and while not sure if this is correct but have been told that Yanmar make the blocks for Toyota.



I was under the impression that the smaller Sole engines are Mitsubishi based. This came up recently in a thread on here, I think it was something to do with a gearbox engine combo.


Older ones are dedicated marine engine.

UncleBob
NSW, 439 posts
11 Jul 2019 1:41PM
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troubadour said..
Most marine engines except the gardiners etc are usually based on road engines. Yes the 6 cyl Yanmars are land cruiser engines etc etc etc

have had volvo genset that had perkins on the block. the Ox diesel outboards are GM car engines


Gardner engines were used in the london busses I believe.

Shanty
QLD, 393 posts
11 Jul 2019 1:45PM
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troubadour said..
Most marine engines except the gardiners etc are usually based on road engines. Yes the 6 cyl Yanmars are land cruiser engines etc etc etc

have had volvo genset that had perkins on the block. the Ox diesel outboards are GM car engines


Did Gardner build a few engines to put in Buses and trucks? On the internet you can see a few with Gardner's in them.

I would say the Gardner was just put in. On this one

lydia
879 posts
11 Jul 2019 12:36PM
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Buses in London and Hong Kong

Ramona
NSW, 5024 posts
11 Jul 2019 6:03PM
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My fishing boat had a Gardner 6LW main and a Kubota 8kva generator. The Kubota I installed and it had done 17,000 hours when I sold the vessel. The Gardner would have had many times more than this. First launched in 1945. Same engine was used in London double decker buses and some trains. In Australia it was used mainly in mining pit trucks. The single cylinder and twin cylinder versions were used in the British canal boats. 4 cylinder versions were used in large yachts and it was a common engine powering trawler winches. 5 cylinder versions were used in Victorian and SA aft cabin cray boats. The first 6LW's started as army truck engines in 1928. My engine was faultless in the 23 years or so I had it with the only maintenance retensioning the timing chain and replacing the dry exhaust manifold. I actually installed a truck manifold upside down! I could shut down 5 cylinders and it would run on one fine!
Mate has a freshly overhauled 4LW sitting in his shed if anyone is interested.

Shanty
QLD, 393 posts
11 Jul 2019 6:23PM
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Ramona said..
My fishing boat had a Gardner 6LW main and a Kubota 8kva generator. The Kubota I installed and it had done 17,000 hours when I sold the vessel. The Gardner would have had many times more than this. First launched in 1945. Same engine was used in London double decker buses and some trains. In Australia it was used mainly in mining pit trucks. The single cylinder and twin cylinder versions were used in the British canal boats. 4 cylinder versions were used in large yachts and it was a common engine powering trawler winches. 5 cylinder versions were used in Victorian and SA aft cabin cray boats. The first 6LW's started as army truck engines in 1928. My engine was faultless in the 23 years or so I had it with the only maintenance retensioning the timing chain and replacing the dry exhaust manifold. I actually installed a truck manifold upside down! I could shut down 5 cylinders and it would run on one fine!
Mate has a freshly overhauled 4LW sitting in his shed if anyone is interested.



Hey Ramona,
have you ever noticed the old Gardner run at about 60 degrees Celsius? Nice fishing boat btw saw it on another thread while sitting in the "sin bin". What's the history on it?

PS is an Onan generator a Kubota or Cummins engine. Or was the guy I was talking to at Yamba the other day Bullsh!tting to me.
Thanks
Mick

MorningBird
NSW, 2169 posts
11 Jul 2019 7:14PM
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LooseChange said..

lydia said..
Small Sole are made by the company while larger ones can be Mercedes Benz.

Some latter small volvos were perkins bases while small Mercruiser diesel are usually Volkswagen based.

One thing to look out for is that yanmars will have mechanical fuel pump while marinzed industrial motors will have electric pump.
But this never seems to be problem though but I often being warned about it.

The straight 6 cylinder Yanmar is a Land Cruiser base and while not sure if this is correct but have been told that Yanmar make the blocks for Toyota.



I was under the impression that the smaller Sole engines are Mitsubishi based. This came up recently in a thread on here, I think it was something to do with a gearbox engine combo.


They are Mitsubishi based. I have a 20hp Sole Mini 23, 3 cyl 1 litre. It was installed at build in 1984. It has been thoroughly reliable, smooth and gets 1.5 litres an hour cruising.
The later versions are a bit easier to service than my older one but I would recommend them to anybody needing a small diesel.

shaggybaxter
QLD, 1665 posts
11 Jul 2019 7:44PM
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Lazzz said..



shaggybaxter said..

Made me think of the forklifts running around with the old holden 138 grey motor still going strong near 70 years later.





Ahhh, the old Holden 138 grey motor.

First motor I "worked on" - bigger cam, twin carbs & extractors. Them were the days!!




Lazzz, you might recognise this one then?
My first car, an EH wagon. Being 17 and really intelligent(not), I thought it would be fun to bolt on a supercharger. The blower was off a 6 cyl diesel, you have to shift the end plates down to increase the boost enough but rock solid blowers.
If you drove too slowly on grass it used to set it alight . I ended up getting ticketed off the road, but it was fun while it lasted.
If you were being silly it averaged 1mpg, so the standard EH tank was only good for about 9 miles.
Great engines the holden 6's.

Apologies for the thread drift Shanty.


Lazzz
NSW, 445 posts
11 Jul 2019 7:51PM
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shaggybaxter said..

Lazzz, you might recognise this one then?
My first car, an EH wagon. Being 17 and really intelligent(not), I thought it would be fun to bolt on a supercharger. The blower was off a 6 cyl diesel, you have to shift the end plates down to increase the boost enough but rock solid blowers.
If you drove too slowly on grass it used to set it alight . I ended up getting ticketed off the road, but it was fun while it lasted.
Great engines the holden 6's.

Apologies for the thread drift Shanty.



Wow!!!!

The EH was one of the General's finest!!
The best I could manage in my EH was a 192 with triple SU's

Yeah, sorry Shanty.

TopHat 25 Mk2
ACT, 91 posts
11 Jul 2019 9:14PM
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Old 4 cyl Cats yes, my fav outboard chrysler, but Johnson's and Mariners make best under 15 hp motors, have both Chrysler 115 and 140 , Johnson 70 on my glass boats, still hunting for a lil longshaft thing for a Tern.

TopHat 25 Mk2
ACT, 91 posts
11 Jul 2019 9:20PM
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Old 4 cyl Cats yes, my fav outboard chrysler, but Johnson's and Mariners make best under 15 hp motors, have both Chrysler 115 and 140 , Johnson 70 on my glass boats, still hunting for a lil longshaft thing for a Tern.
My first car HR Holdoon 161 powerglide real speed demon lol my second was an XY GS Fairmont 250 2v 4 speed that was a freaking rocket, long list of Fords ever since.

TopHat 25 Mk2
ACT, 91 posts
11 Jul 2019 9:22PM
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Shanty said..
well I'm not trying to start another "Mono v Multi" or "who's smarter left or right handlers". But I am interested in what other engines You guys have had experience with. I have had experience with only 5 different brands.
1. Detroit Diesels (GM)
2. Perkins
3. Cummins
4. Cat
5. Gardner
i have heard good things about Yanmars as well.

Would love to know the most amount of hours you have seen on engines or outboards.

Just interested.
Regards,
Mick


Fella moving my boat has a lot of Gardner stuff

TopHat 25 Mk2
ACT, 91 posts
11 Jul 2019 9:27PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Shanty said..
well I'm not trying to start another "Mono v Multi" or "who's smarter left or right handlers". But I am interested in what other engines You guys have had experience with. I have had experience with only 5 different brands.
1. Detroit Diesels (GM)
2. Perkins
3. Cummins
4. Cat
5. Gardner
i have heard good things about Yanmars as well.

Would love to know the most amount of hours you have seen on engines or outboards.

Just interested.
Regards,
Mick


One of the nicest Dieso I ever come across was an Allis Chalmers in a 58 grader my mate has, simple like a Holden six, need a can aerostart to get her going no glowplugs just runs n runs, smooth as, mine when the grader gives out. My old Cat 971 track loader a jap cat bout a 1975 model 4 cyl motor she had a good 20,000 hours on it, we used it for shifting horse **** onto an old Dodge D5N, couldn't kill her, she's still going strong.

TopHat 25 Mk2
ACT, 91 posts
11 Jul 2019 9:27PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Shanty said..
well I'm not trying to start another "Mono v Multi" or "who's smarter left or right handlers". But I am interested in what other engines You guys have had experience with. I have had experience with only 5 different brands.
1. Detroit Diesels (GM)
2. Perkins
3. Cummins
4. Cat
5. Gardner
i have heard good things about Yanmars as well.

Would love to know the most amount of hours you have seen on engines or outboards.

Just interested.
Regards,
Mick


One of the nicest Dieso I ever come across was an Allis Chalmers in a 58 grader my mate has, simple like a Holden six, need a can aerostart to get her going no glowplugs just runs n runs, smooth as, mine when the grader gives out. My old Cat 971 track loader a jap cat bout a 1975 model 4 cyl motor she had a good 20,000 hours on it, we used it for shifting horse **** onto an old Dodge D5N, couldn't kill her, she's still going strong.



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"Engine" started by Shanty