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How's This For A Mooring Block

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Created by TopHat 25 Mk2 A week ago, 9 Jul 2019
TopHat 25 Mk2
ACT, 91 posts
9 Jul 2019 2:43PM
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This is a mould used years ago in mall car park floors on u derside, looks to be 4x4x1 ish foot


Reckon she would do the job I'll just line with plastic add my rebar with loops and fill with cement

Shanty
QLD, 407 posts
9 Jul 2019 3:23PM
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TopHat 25 Mk2 said..
This is a mould used years ago in mall car park floors on u derside, looks to be 4x4x1 ish foot


Reckon she would do the job I'll just line with plastic add my rebar with loops and fill with cement


As discussed in another thread. Cement looses around 50% of its weight in water.

1 foot cubed of concrete weighs approximately 61kg. 16x61 equals 976 kg this means out of water your concrete block weighs 976 kg. Assuming concrete looses 50% of weight when submerged in the ocean. Your block know weighs 448 kg plus the around 5 kg you're box weighs without concrete in it.

Providing you have good chain, this should be adequate. The smooth surface of your box means it will be prone to sliding. Even if it is only a couple kg anchor, I would suggest connecting it to the box that way it Should stay where it is when the tide changes. Providing that tide isn't running at a great rate of knots.

I would think of mine like anchoring your boat. 70-90% of your boats weight is being held by the chain. Not your anchor.

PS Maths is not my strong point at all. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
Regards,
Mick

TopHat 25 Mk2
ACT, 91 posts
9 Jul 2019 5:29PM
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I wouldn't think she'd move Mick, the seabed in her area is mud I think she'd stick fast, but if I could find a cheap old tinny about 10 foot I'd fill that and sink the freaking thing, that wouldn't move in a blue fit.

UncleBob
NSW, 440 posts
9 Jul 2019 5:42PM
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Shanty said..

TopHat 25 Mk2 said..
This is a mould used years ago in mall car park floors on u derside, looks to be 4x4x1 ish foot


Reckon she would do the job I'll just line with plastic add my rebar with loops and fill with cement



As discussed in another thread. Cement looses around 50% of its weight in water.

1 foot cubed of concrete weighs approximately 61kg. 16x61 equals 976 kg this means out of water your concrete block weighs 976 kg. Assuming concrete looses 50% of weight when submerged in the ocean. Your block know weighs 448 kg plus the around 5 kg you're box weighs without concrete in it.

Providing you have good chain, this should be adequate. The smooth surface of your box means it will be prone to sliding. Even if it is only a couple kg anchor, I would suggest connecting it to the box that way it Should stay where it is when the tide changes. Providing that tide isn't running at a great rate of knots.

I would think of mine like anchoring your boat. 70-90% of your boats weight is being held by the chain. Not your anchor.

PS Maths is not my strong point at all. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong.
Regards,
Mick


Shanty, essentially you're correct, the defining point is the chain, ideally the water depth in a heavy stud link ships anchor chain, followed by a lighter springer chain about two to three metres, a good swivel to a length of 28 to 32 mm poly rope, the length determined by the water depth. The swivel should be at least 500 mm off the bottom at low tide with the boat attached.
As for a block, if concrete 2 ton which will end up weighing 1 ton in the water, or a more compact weight such as cast steel or iron weighing around the 1 ton mark. Tried and true system that only requires maintenance, boat will stay where you put it.

Ramona
NSW, 5034 posts
9 Jul 2019 5:48PM
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If your dead set on using concrete find an old large truck tyre. Lay it on sand with a bit of a hump so the bottom ends up concave, this will give some suction on a sand/mud bottom. Use reo reinforcing through a large ring that will protrude through the concrete just enough to secure a large shackle. The idea is to have a low a profile as possible that wont snag the chain. Let the mooring just sit for a few tide changes before you attach your yacht.

Cabron
NSW, 256 posts
10 Jul 2019 9:31AM
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Is it common down south to make your own mooring? Is it even legal? No annual inspection required?
Sorry to sound negative, but coughing up the $1000-$1200 to get a professionally installed mooring that's proven, sounds like a wise investment.
If your that cheap, I presume insurance is not on the list either, so basically a liability to others down wind when it let's go.
Theres already plenty of carnage of professional moorings letting go in a blow... just look back a few weeks now all we need is another uninsured boat washing around after damaging multiple well cared for boats on its way to the beach.
We all understand boats aren't cheap, and what can make it affordable to the majority is doing things ourself.
But somethings need to be done right...
Get yourself some good new long chain and a decent anchor with enough scope... i'd take that over a homemade bathtub full of rebar and cement with unproven connection points and knowledge of what's needed.
Has the thought of installing multiple decent lifting points for either inspection, or changing primary attachment point when the other rusts/wears or breaks, or just leave it as trash on the bottom.
Sounds harsh, but put yourself in the shoes of the guy who's just had his Topsides smashed/punctured in because someone saved a couple hundred bucks..
Check Gumtree, even more often now there's plenty of newish moorings coming up for sale, looked at it myself, coming to the conclusion that by the time I get a barge to lift, relocate and service... there wasn't much difference to getting a new one.
Just my opinion...

Shanty
QLD, 407 posts
10 Jul 2019 10:04AM
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Cabron said..
Is it common down south to make your own mooring? Is it even legal? No annual inspection required?
Sorry to sound negative, but coughing up the $1000-$1200 to get a professionally installed mooring that's proven, sounds like a wise investment.
If your that cheap, I presume insurance is not on the list either, so basically a liability to others down wind when it let's go.
Theres already plenty of carnage of professional moorings letting go in a blow... just look back a few weeks now all we need is another uninsured boat washing around after damaging multiple well cared for boats on its way to the beach.
We all understand boats aren't cheap, and what can make it affordable to the majority is doing things ourself.
But somethings need to be done right...
Get yourself some good new long chain and a decent anchor with enough scope... i'd take that over a homemade bathtub full of rebar and cement with unproven connection points and knowledge of what's needed.
Has the thought of installing multiple decent lifting points for either inspection, or changing primary attachment point when the other rusts/wears or breaks, or just leave it as trash on the bottom.
Sounds harsh, but put yourself in the shoes of the guy who's just had his Topsides smashed/punctured in because someone saved a couple hundred bucks..
Check Gumtree, even more often now there's plenty of newish moorings coming up for sale, looked at it myself, coming to the conclusion that by the time I get a barge to lift, relocate and service... there wasn't much difference to getting a new one.
Just my opinion...



When I buy a boat in the next couple of months. My mooring will have a 8l3b Gardner block that is at my mates house in Maryborough. Connected with a 400 pound cqr anchor that was a spare anchor of the one of the tugs that no one wanted. And 5 metres of 40mm ships anchor chain with some smaller chain or rope leading to the surface. That would be my "Cyclone proof" mooring. If that motherf_cker moves I owe you all a carton.

I do see where you are coming from mate. My mooring will cost 50 bucks for the float. If I had less on I could probably make one for less.

PS unless you have an engine over 4 hp you don't even need to register your boat in Queensland.

Cheers,
Mick

cisco
QLD, 11223 posts
10 Jul 2019 10:19AM
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TopHat 25 Mk2
ACT, 91 posts
10 Jul 2019 10:45AM
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I don't need a cyclone rated mooring, my boats only 2.5 ton it's not the titanic, people do make there own blocks it's not illegal , yes my yacht is insured,

Cabron
NSW, 256 posts
10 Jul 2019 11:46AM
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TopHat 25 Mk2 said..
I don't need a cyclone rated mooring, my boats only 2.5 ton it's not the titanic, people do make there own blocks it's not illegal , yes my yacht is insured,


It's not a question of weight of yacht only, I'm just pointing out that it seems your starting out and wanting to learn which is a good thing, however even questioning about basic knotcraft and other basic details doesn't give me great confidence that making your own mooring is your expertise just yet.
Q&A on forums is a source of information that should also be taken with a grain of salt, it relies on each individuals interpretation of what is described.
Glad you have insurance, and are asking lots of questions. Just know your limits.
Galvanic reaction, chain types, weights, windage, area conditions, dynamic loading, tides, currents, seabed impact and types, chaffing, swing, swivels, rope types and size etc etc.

www.clubmarine.com.au/explore boating/articles/17-4-Moor-it-Safely

At the end of the day, it's just a lump of concrete with some chain... often multiple types and size, swivels and rope... sounds easy enough yes.... but if any of it is wrong type/size/mis fitted.... it becomes the weakest link, and wearing can happen faster than you think.

Look at at the latest Sydney Storm damage thread, we see this at least once or twice a year, and in Melbourne as well, going back a few years the floods in Bundy.
Between weather and apparatus, lots can and will go wrong.
Yes we're not in Cyclone areas, but sustained 60kn or even micro bursts, with seas/swell have more power than you think, actually having a lighter yacht can make it worse as it sails and hobby horses on the mooring.
Do what you deem right, just plan it right and respect others around you.

Good luck with your journey

Shanty
QLD, 407 posts
10 Jul 2019 12:04PM
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Cabron said..

TopHat 25 Mk2 said..
I don't need a cyclone rated mooring, my boats only 2.5 ton it's not the titanic, people do make there own blocks it's not illegal , yes my yacht is insured,



It's not a question of weight of yacht only, I'm just pointing out that it seems your starting out and wanting to learn which is a good thing, however even questioning about basic knotcraft and other basic details doesn't give me great confidence that making your own mooring is your expertise just yet.
Q&A on forums is a source of information that should also be taken with a grain of salt, it relies on each individuals interpretation of what is described.
Glad you have insurance, and are asking lots of questions. Just know your limits.
Galvanic reaction, chain types, weights, windage, area conditions, dynamic loading, tides, currents, seabed impact and types, chaffing, swing, swivels, rope types and size etc etc.

www.clubmarine.com.au/explore boating/articles/17-4-Moor-it-Safely

At the end of the day, it's just a lump of concrete with some chain... often multiple types and size, swivels and rope... sounds easy enough yes.... but if any of it is wrong type/size/mis fitted.... it becomes the weakest link, and wearing can happen faster than you think.

Look at at the latest Sydney Storm damage thread, we see this at least once or twice a year, and in Melbourne as well, going back a few years the floods in Bundy.
Between weather and apparatus, lots can and will go wrong.
Yes we're not in Cyclone areas, but sustained 60kn or even micro bursts, with seas/swell have more power than you think, actually having a lighter yacht can make it worse as it sails and hobby horses on the mooring.
Do what you deem right, just plan it right and respect others around you.

Good luck with your journey


The mooring I was describing is just all the crap I can collect thrown on the bottom. I reckon you would want a cyclone proof mooring in Sydney.

In Sydney it sounds like you guys get big cells come through with heaps of wind.

I Wouldn't believe a government official that their moorings are "Cyclone Proof" . There are so many stories of boats being lost because of relying on "Cyclone" or "hurricane" proof moorings.

Regards,
Mick

Zzzzzz
190 posts
10 Jul 2019 12:24PM
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TopHat 25 Mk2 said..
I don't need a cyclone rated mooring, my boats only 2.5 ton it's not the titanic, people do make there own blocks it's not illegal , yes my yacht is insured,


That is fantastic who did you manage to get your yacht insured with ?
i can't get mine insured unless I get it rerigged lifted out of the water for a full survey $6000 later , and I can go to sea in my yacht .

Cabron
NSW, 256 posts
10 Jul 2019 2:55PM
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Zzzzzz said..

TopHat 25 Mk2 said..
I don't need a cyclone rated mooring, my boats only 2.5 ton it's not the titanic, people do make there own blocks it's not illegal , yes my yacht is insured,



That is fantastic who did you manage to get your yacht insured with ?
i can't get mine insured unless I get it rerigged lifted out of the water for a full survey $6000 later , and I can go to sea in my yacht .


I couldn't even get ClubMarine with a current survey, and new rigging... apparently I put the book value to low, minimum $1500 a foot of length. though they did my previous 1978 Compass 28 with only a survey and no mention of rigging.

SunsetSailer
TAS, 17 posts
10 Jul 2019 3:48PM
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I ran into that $1,500 per foot rule when I tried to get my boat insured a year or two ago. Actually it was $1,000 quoted then.

Couldn't see the logic in a 25' boat needing to be valued at $25,000 to get insurance while a 40' would be ok at a $40,000 value. I had multiple boats insured with Club Marine over 30 years and they refused me because my boat was too cheap!







Sectorsteve
NSW, 2125 posts
10 Jul 2019 4:39PM
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Everyone should self insure. Put the insurance companies out of business.

Donk107
TAS, 2209 posts
10 Jul 2019 6:21PM
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Regardless of what you put on the bottom unless you are going to dive on it to service it, it needs to be able to be lifted to inspect it and replace whatever is needed

I wonder if the design of the mooring block and what it does on the bottom is more important than the actual weight for holding

Regards Don

SandS
VIC, 5637 posts
10 Jul 2019 8:01PM
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Sectorsteve said..
Everyone should self insure. Put the insurance companies out of business.


good luck with you break free and tbone that new 50 footer near you

SandS
VIC, 5637 posts
10 Jul 2019 8:05PM
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cisco said..






i remember when you fabricated and installed those , a few years ago ? how are they going can you inspect ok or is the water too cloudy to see anything ??

cisco
QLD, 11223 posts
10 Jul 2019 8:41PM
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SandS said..
i remember when you fabricated and installed those , a few years ago ? how are they going can you inspect ok or is the water too cloudy to see anything ??


Visibility is near zero due to mud and tide. I have to go fishing for my downstream mooring line. The buoy either sank or was cut off. Not looking forward to it.

SandS
VIC, 5637 posts
10 Jul 2019 8:48PM
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cisco said..

SandS said..
i remember when you fabricated and installed those , a few years ago ? how are they going can you inspect ok or is the water too cloudy to see anything ??



Visibility is near zero due to mud and tide. I have to go fishing for my downstream mooring line. The buoy either sank or was cut off. Not looking forward to it.


yeah , so could you get a diver to attach a rig and get a big boat with a massive winch to lift then ??

TopHat 25 Mk2
ACT, 91 posts
10 Jul 2019 9:11PM
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I have been given a mooring at Batemans Bay had a 36 swinging of it , it's in a ok spot, it's all coming together, it's not my first rodeo Cisco I had an old gaff rigged day boat, been around boats for 35 years, I have a good engineering mind, I suck at knots no mistakes, but I'm learning the basics and as time goes along Tern and me will become lovers, she fits my plans, in a few weeks she will be home, she's been cleaned, the fouls holding up ok, the old fella who's running her down is safety checking her, he has 60 years experience, everything's come together nicely without denting my wallet, now it's just gaining experience, I know enough to get her out in the wind, my Nile is SA is a long time sailor and former commodore of the Port Augusta yacht club, I'll con him in to coming over for a holiday and go sailing,
I want to do navigation courses, radio courses

tired
25 posts
10 Jul 2019 8:00PM
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Your profile says " total newbie " though...

wildemann
VIC, 27 posts
13 Jul 2019 6:22PM
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Two concrete blocks. Only part of one
visible. Note second chain running down to fully buried one. Works well if they are properly set.

TopHat 25 Mk2
ACT, 91 posts
13 Jul 2019 9:46PM
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Just so we're clear on a few things, forums I would have thought especially this one when younger fellas are getting into the game the older more experienced fellas would kind of be supportive and encouraging, it seems young mick has fallen foul with a few of you and he felt the need to exile himself, that's bloody poor form.
Im a newbie yes, a boat is a boat wether it's solely reliant on engine or sail, moorings are new too me I have my fears with them, I have owned 25 boats including a beautiful old gaff day sailer, I have built three to old to do another.
My dear old dad always said Never be afraid to ask if you don't know something, shouldn't matter if your 15 or 50 your never too old to learn, if we were all perfect there'd be no room for improvement. Rant over.

garymalmgren
225 posts
13 Jul 2019 8:17PM
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Fair enough Top Hat , but this thread is about,"How's This For A Mooring Block", isn't it?
What do you think of Cisco's Bulldozer drive wheel moorings?

gary

tired
25 posts
14 Jul 2019 8:55AM
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TopHat 25 Mk2 said..
Just so we're clear on a few things, forums I would have thought especially this one when younger fellas are getting into the game the older more experienced fellas would kind of be supportive and encouraging, it seems young mick has fallen foul with a few of you and he felt the need to exile himself, that's bloody poor form.
Im a newbie yes, a boat is a boat wether it's solely reliant on engine or sail, moorings are new too me I have my fears with them, I have owned 25 boats including a beautiful old gaff day sailer, I have built three to old to do another.
My dear old dad always said Never be afraid to ask if you don't know something, shouldn't matter if your 15 or 50 your never too old to learn, if we were all perfect there'd be no room for improvement. Rant over.


Poor form on forums can also include writing in your profile " a total newbie... always wanted to build a boat but never had the time blah blah"

Now it's " l've owned 25 boats and built 3 "
WTF?
how can ya describe yourself as a newbie??

WHICH version is to be believed?

Donk107
TAS, 2209 posts
14 Jul 2019 1:04PM
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garymalmgren said..
Fair enough Top Hat , but this thread is about,"How's This For A Mooring Block", isn't it?
What do you think of Cisco's Bulldozer drive wheel moorings?

gary


Looking at Cisco's mooring it appears to be made out of truck brake drums

Regards Don

cisco
QLD, 11223 posts
14 Jul 2019 8:50PM
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^^^ Correct. They are truck brake drums with large cog wheels welded on as the base plate but the drums prior filled with brake discs, clutch plates and the like.

The double drum blocks came in around 250 kg and the singles around 190 kg.

Sunk into a mud bottom, they do not move but I know the single drum block (the stern downstream block) can be lifted by a Carter 33 if the tackle is shortened up on a low tide.

Wander66 can confirm that.



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"How's This For A Mooring Block" started by TopHat 25 Mk2