I'm looking at buying my first keelboat, and was wondering whether this would be a good option?

6 years ago
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Neonistra
Neonistra
NSW
2 posts
NSW, 2 posts
8 Aug 2020 3:53pm
Hi everyone,

I was just looking at buying my first keelboat sometime in the future, having done a fair amount of dinghy sailing and harbour/coastal sailing aboard other people's boats. I was recently looking at this TopHat 25. which looks nice and is for a fairly good price, however it's engine isn't running :/ .....

I am looking to further my sailing experience, and just generally be able to run my own yacht, but I am conscious that there are somethings that can just be a complete money pit and break my spirits more than teach me :(

Is this something I should consider a deal breaker and to steer clear of? Or is this something that would be good to try and work with to build experience (for the right price).

The TopHat in question:

yachthub.com/list/yachts-for-sale/used/sail-monohulls/top-hat-25-mk-ii-diesel-special-order-top-hat-25/248568

p.s it is also being sold by a yacht broker Jonathan Frearson who seems to get mixed reviews around here, so any information on him is also much appreciated!!
MorningBird
MorningBird
NSW
2714 posts
NSW, 2714 posts
8 Aug 2020 4:45pm
You might get it for about $5000 which looks like a good deal to me.
Find out what Yanmar it is, see how old they are and spares availability.
I could give you a hand to check the engine/boat out if you wish. I'm inner west Sydney, Lane Cove is close.
stray
stray
SA
325 posts
SA, 325 posts
8 Aug 2020 4:55pm
That rudder is non standard, and rather ugly.
Great boats but i would look for one with the original rudder.
garymalmgren
garymalmgren
1416 posts
1416 posts
8 Aug 2020 3:27pm
Hi Neonistra

Take Morning Bird's offer with both hands.
Chances to get advice from someone with his experience don't come along twice.

Bet of luck.

gary
BlueMoon
BlueMoon
867 posts
867 posts
8 Aug 2020 3:41pm
It's a MK3 Top Hat, trouble is your kind of committed to the inboard motor, as the option of putting an OB bracket on the transom is gone, and to put original rudder back in looks like big job not worth it. If the inboard is kaput, You would have to re-instate the outboard well, remove fuel tank and what looks like a bit of fibreglass work.
Im not a big fan of the carpet lining, good while it's new but looks terrible if not maintained.
Does have some good features though, furler, good stainless work.
Andrew68
Andrew68
VIC
433 posts
VIC, 433 posts
8 Aug 2020 6:17pm
Do you get the mooring as well ?

I guess it all comes down to the motor - it could be a money pit.

A
Ilenart
Ilenart
WA
250 posts
WA, 250 posts
8 Aug 2020 6:56pm
I think you could easily sink another $15k in that boat without even trying. Assuming the engine is a writeoff (highly likely if it is salt water cooled) their's around $12k for a new engine. Would be comparing this yacht to other yachts asking $15-20k as a comparison.

As this appears to be your first keel boat I would be looking for something in better condition. I always prefer spending more time sailing than repairing.

Ilenart
Craig66
Craig66
NSW
2466 posts
NSW, 2466 posts
8 Aug 2020 9:03pm
Andrew68 said..
Do you get the mooring as well ?

I guess it all comes down to the motor - it could be a money pit.

A


Arent all "BOATs" money pits?
MorningBird
MorningBird
NSW
2714 posts
NSW, 2714 posts
8 Aug 2020 10:31pm
Ilenart said..
I think you could easily sink another $15k in that boat without even trying. Assuming the engine is a writeoff (highly likely if it is salt water cooled) their's around $12k for a new engine. Would be comparing this yacht to other yachts asking $15-20k as a comparison.

As this appears to be your first keel boat I would be looking for something in better condition. I always prefer spending more time sailing than repairing.

Ilenart


Quite possibly. But it appears sound and worth checking out.
Planeray
Planeray
NSW
221 posts
NSW, 221 posts
10 Aug 2020 10:13am
Personally, I'd say no - the engine alone is gonna take a bunch more money to get going. If it were just an outboard, you could just swap a non working one out, but with an inboard, you're kinda stuck with working on it. The rudder looks a bit odd, but I'm no Top Hat expert, so I'll leave that to the others to comment on.

That said, it'd probably be good for you to look at with MB as he's so nicely offered, so that that way, when you see something you really like, you might have a bit more of an idea of what you're looking at!

Had a quick look at others in the same price range - I reckon these would also be worth looking at, all listed lower than the Top Hat you linked;
Contessa 26 www.boatsales.com.au/boats/details/1971-contessa-26/SSE-AD-4472388/?Cr=2
Endeavour 26 www.boatsales.com.au/boats/details/1980-endeavour-26/SSE-AD-6443066/?Cr=9
J24 www.boatsales.com.au/boats/details/1984-j-boats-j-24/SSE-AD-6386859/?Cr=11 (a bit racier)
Endeavour 24 www.boatsales.com.au/boats/details/1973-endeavour-24-mk-ii/OAG-AD-16394769/?Cr=22
Cole 19 www.boatsales.com.au/boats/details/1982-cole-19/SSE-AD-6664676/?Cr=19 (a bit smaller, but looks in pretty good nick)

Jonno's an interesting guy. I've picked up some amazing bargains of bits and pieces from him, but you kinda have to know what you're buying to be sure of it. Most of his stuff is picked up as salvage, which he then pulls apart for the best bits and pieces to move on. If it's your first boat and you're more interested in sailing than in refit, possibly not the best choice. However, he's really handy to know if you're looking for help on old, discontinued parts, a dinghy to get to the mooring (he has a heap sitting round at Woodford Bay at various price points) or need help organising a mooring.
Yara
Yara
NSW
1323 posts
NSW, 1323 posts
10 Aug 2020 10:54am
The casette rudder could be OK if it is deep enough not to lose grip in a bouncy sea. It is not the first mod like this- ask at the Top hat web site- www.tophatyachts.com/
I think the ad implies it has an outboard well, so you could budget around $2k for a new outboard if the diesel is beyond repair.
GREGO5
GREGO5
7 posts
7 posts
10 Aug 2020 10:41am
I agree with Ilenart
The ports look like they leak like hell as well.
You need a dry boat with a good reliable motor that is also your battery charger & life saver.
I would say keep saving and if you plan to live a board try for atleast a 30 footer with head room.
jbarnes85
jbarnes85
VIC
297 posts
VIC, 297 posts
10 Aug 2020 12:57pm
The sum of the individual parts of a cheap boat is worth more than the boat itself.
MichaelR
MichaelR
NSW
862 posts
NSW, 862 posts
10 Aug 2020 1:20pm
As a Top Hat owner, with an outboard, I'd have to say it's worth a look. My first question is, why doesn't the engine run? Is it low on diesel, or, at the other end of the scale, is it low on compression or full of water? Find that out first, then see where it leads you.

As others have said it's got some great things going for it, but the engine could be a do or die effort.

There are plenty of Top Hats about, if that's what you want. Visit the Top Hat website and have a look around, ask questions and see what you come up with.
Bushdog
Bushdog
SA
313 posts
SA, 313 posts
10 Aug 2020 1:40pm
It doesn't have an outboard well. That lid under the tiller has space for a gas cylinder or... I actually installed an outside porta potti to satisfy regs.
the rudder mod may assist with fine steering, but whats the point in a removable rudder when youve got 1.2 mtr of keel permanently mounted underneath.
The motor is a worry. Even if it turns over ok, you could find it has corrosion holes in the head or other major issues.
Still worth a look. I checked out 5 TH's before stepping on the one I bought and immediately knew it was the one for me.
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