Forums > Sailing General

Is it really late to save ourselves?

Reply
Created by sirgallivant 2 months ago, 4 Feb 2019
sirgallivant
NSW, 1407 posts
4 Feb 2019 6:38PM
Thumbs Up

The blatantly hijacked thread of "Visiting Ontong Java..." induced me to try to draw your attention to this theorizing American professor's presentation which was televised on SBS on last Sunday evening. (3.2.2019)
The outpouring emotions about global warming and climate change and it's consequences on Dexport's thread, which turned into a farce at the end, did flare up emotions successfully without trying to suggest any remedy or aim the focus at possible solutions to the problems we face.
This total lack of ideas, which is oh so typical of such emotional flare-ups, l am trying to correct by suggesting, that perhaps a positive thought process, instead of scapegoat finding and blaming everybody and everything, might bring us closer to a possible solution.

Bristolfashion
VIC, 464 posts
5 Feb 2019 8:22AM
Thumbs Up

"The future is already here, it's just not very evenly distributed." William Gibson.

The sad thing is that science and technology has already given us the solution to many of these problems, we just don't seem to like them.

As an example, renewables plus pumped hydro, hydrogen, batteries, smart grids, energy efficiency, electric vehicles and a host of other clever tech could, right now, slash our reliance on fossil fuels, seriously reduce our CO2 footprint and bring a host of other benefits - but we lack the collective willpower.

Our astonishing and reckless squandering of the world's resources must stop. This is a social, cultural and political problem as much as a technological one.

Whilst changing our own behaviour is important, we also need to garner community support and political will to make the required structural changes. I can recycle, walk to the shops and improve home energy efficiency, but I can't build a wind farm!

Cheers

Bristol

P.s. I did consider high jacking this thread on serious environmental issues with some pretty pix of N. Tasmania!

garymalmgren
168 posts
5 Feb 2019 7:20AM
Thumbs Up


The sad thing is that science and technology has already given us the solution to many of these problems, we just don't seem to like them.

I like this one. Actually. one of Leonardo's bright ideas.



All you need is a wide, flat hot place. No water. coal, oil, uranium.
Now, where in Aus could we possible find a wide, flat, hot place.

gary

sirgallivant
NSW, 1407 posts
5 Feb 2019 11:01AM
Thumbs Up

Yes, William Gibson might be right - it is rather peculiar, that you quote a cyberpunk - but he, like others who try to find solutions to our problems, fails to realise the frightening truth, that our near demise is exacerbated by our archaic mental adherence to materialism and the present value-system, namely money, and its distribution.

The thought - that until we rid ourselves of our dissipating, meretricious lifestyle by doing away with the value-system - sofar has confounded and repelled most people with two cents in their pocket.
Jeremy Rifkin has accepted the possible existence of a duality which is untenable.

Our survival requires a paradigm shift in philosophy as well as in business of yet unimaginable magnitude.

cisco
QLD, 11001 posts
5 Feb 2019 9:16PM
Thumbs Up

theculturetrip.com/middle-east/articles/this-ancient-technique-to-make-ice-in-the-desert-is-mind-boggling/

news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/07/130703-air-conditioning-biomimicry-natural-cooling/

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windcatcher

It ain't hard people. How do you make ice in the middle of the desert?? You have a high vertical wall, on the eastern side of which you have a shallow water tight pan the same dimensions as the wall.

Mid to late afternoon you flood the pan with a couple of inches of water. Due to the extreme temperature differences between day and night in the middle of a continent (such as we have in the Australian desert) the water will freeze overnight. Get up early before sunrise, bust the sheet of ice up, salt it and put it in hessian bags. Put it in well insulated container and you will have cold storage for at least the rest of the day.

They have been doing this for centuries in Africa.

Another thing I have mentioned a couple of times before on the forum is the trial conducted by the CSIRO, FORTY FRIGGING YEARS AGO to have an off grid stand alone home with all the mod cons in Cantberra for one year.

The experiment was a complete success!!! What happened to the data and why can't you find any reference to it on the CSIRO web site and why is not every stand alone home in Australia OFF THE GRID???

Plain and simple folks, we are being conned as general consumers into subsidising the multi nationals power consumption among other things all in the name of the mighty dollar which will soon crash.

Have you bought any gold or silver lately? Good hedge against hyper inflation I believe.

An ocean sailing yacht I believe is also a good investment vehicle. They are going at bargain prices according to recent posts on the forum.

Get your's now and do you want french fries with it??

sirgallivant
NSW, 1407 posts
5 Feb 2019 11:44PM
Thumbs Up

Cisco, you are mentioning interesting things and experiments which are no doubt worth mentioning but you are really just venting your spleen without offering any solution.
Where is the paradigm shift in our psychology, economy, business, social sciences to help the solution along?

Humanity's worship of gold and silver is rather frightening, it is as far from the needed paradigm shift in our thinking as it could be. As long as we do not divest ourselves from our antiquated material thinking and it's consequences, we are doomed.
Money is the culprit and our mad desire for it.

The greedy Harpagons sitting on those mountains of riches all in our history, obviously think otherwise.

We won't make, not without an earthquake like change in our ways !

fishmonkey
NSW, 409 posts
6 Feb 2019 9:45AM
Thumbs Up

IMO the crux of the matter is that we humans are nowhere near as "advanced" as we like to imagine we are.

when it comes down to it, we are a relatively sophisticated animal and each of us at the core has a powerful fight/flight/freeze system in operation, a system that is not well-adapted to our rapidly changing sociocultural environments. this is partly why anxiety and depression are such common human experiences. we also have a powerful reward system. it's no surprise then that fear, survival, addiction and endless accumulation are such dominant behaviours. i think that materialism is one of the expressions of this.

it also makes it pretty obvious why politicians and other people who like to control others and accumulate power very often use messages that sow fear and discontent.

sirgallivant
NSW, 1407 posts
6 Feb 2019 11:03AM
Thumbs Up

Admirably put, fishmonkey, l was not game enough to mix religion - a perhaps even more controversial subject than our value-system - into the equation, however, the 'crux of the matter' is the necessity of immediate and radical change!

Change of the way of thinking and behaviour, much faster than in the last two centuries, or we might not live in peace to see the next ones.

As long as money and power are the pinnacles of our existence and this very same forces control us and our leaders actions, we are doomed.

The subject of this thread is deviating way too much from sailing, perhaps, l should have started it in "general discussions", so this is my last post on this theme.

Did any of you watch the presentation mentioned above, yet?

Bananabender
QLD, 600 posts
6 Feb 2019 12:30PM
Thumbs Up

Yes, interesting if not somewhat idealistic but hey with technology thesedays anything is possible however as he points out the best times in History are blank pages in the history books . Unfortunately history books are full of events over the last 2500 years and we are not immune to another ( world war) especially with the ever burgeoning world population , forget Europe look to Asia .

Seebreasy73
QLD, 318 posts
6 Feb 2019 6:59PM
Thumbs Up

it is crying wolf, like many fanatics have done it for centuries. How many times the World was suppose to end and yet here we are still today. Just a week or two ago the world was suppose to end at Blood Moon.
One thing people forget about is that the Earth is a mind boggeling machine - it sorts itself out. The only thing people should worry about is nuclear arms and our human nature to kill. Push comes to shove and any of us, any given day will cut the negbour down, if circumstances call for it. Perhaps we deserve this, so for us to debate how should we fix what a couple of greedy bastards done to the world for personal gain won't change a thing. Hystory repeats itself in cycles, civilisations rise and fall. It is what it is, mostly just hypocracy...

FreeRadical
WA, 815 posts
6 Feb 2019 5:17PM
Thumbs Up

Climate change, resource depletion and/or self annihilation provide a good explanation to the Fermi Paradox.

Feralfather
WA, 25 posts
12 Feb 2019 12:02AM
Thumbs Up

All right.
I live on a sailboat because someone gave me a copy of "Sailing the farm" back in the 70's.

I just watched the mentioned program because someone also gave me a copy of "Prosperity without growth" a decade ago.
Both can be downloaded as free pdfs.
Jackson' prosperity is an economic text on sustainable systems. Well worth the study in that it actually gives you some hope for the future.

Now that I've retired to live aboard I now have the time to solve the world's problems under the stars during watch.

Trek
NSW, 830 posts
12 Feb 2019 7:39AM
Thumbs Up

I dont hold much hope. When I see little kids running around today their future wont be good.

This is halfway so its not fiction> All seafood will run out in 2050, say scientists. The world's stocks of seafood will have collapsed by 2050 at present rates of destruction by fishing, scientists said yesterday. A four-year study of 7,800 marine species around the world's ecosystems has concluded that the long-term trend is clear and predictable. A 10yo kid today will see dead oceans. Thats a reason China is busting to grab the South China Sea. ie. To get whats left.

This is 40% there so not fiction> World faces 'catastrophic' risks over insect extinction. Global insect population could vanish within 100 years creating a 'frightening' threat to the Earth's ecosystems. ie. No way to fertilise crops. No corn. No rice. No grass for cows to eat, no nothing.

Humans have wiped out about 60 per cent of the planet's animal life since 1970, according to the latest Living Planet Index.

For those who dont live in Sydney the suburbs of Lidcombe, Carlingford and Green Square to name a few have new apartment blocks adding about 1000 apartments to each suburb. Thats 3000 more toilets flushing into the ocean, 3000 more loads on the coal power stations we use, 3000 more cars, 9000 more meals per day. And thats only in three Sydney suburbs. The horizon here is a maze of cranes, they are everywhere building more. I see them as doom. Imagine this worldwide its horrific.

Overpopulation is the problem. Toyota for example make over 10,000,000 cars per year. No wonder the Earth is getting shot to bits!! Those politically correct nongs that shouted down reducing population are by their own hands going to get the result they didnt want. The Earth will look like Mars by 3000

Seebreasy73
QLD, 318 posts
12 Feb 2019 9:55PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Trek said..
I dont hold much hope. When I see little kids running around today their future wont be good.

This is halfway so its not fiction> All seafood will run out in 2050, say scientists. The world's stocks of seafood will have collapsed by 2050 at present rates of destruction by fishing, scientists said yesterday. A four-year study of 7,800 marine species around the world's ecosystems has concluded that the long-term trend is clear and predictable. A 10yo kid today will see dead oceans. Thats a reason China is busting to grab the South China Sea. ie. To get whats left.

This is 40% there so not fiction> World faces 'catastrophic' risks over insect extinction. Global insect population could vanish within 100 years creating a 'frightening' threat to the Earth's ecosystems. ie. No way to fertilise crops. No corn. No rice. No grass for cows to eat, no nothing.

Humans have wiped out about 60 per cent of the planet's animal life since 1970, according to the latest Living Planet Index.

For those who dont live in Sydney the suburbs of Lidcombe, Carlingford and Green Square to name a few have new apartment blocks adding about 1000 apartments to each suburb. Thats 3000 more toilets flushing into the ocean, 3000 more loads on the coal power stations we use, 3000 more cars, 9000 more meals per day. And thats only in three Sydney suburbs. The horizon here is a maze of cranes, they are everywhere building more. I see them as doom. Imagine this worldwide its horrific.

Overpopulation is the problem. Toyota for example make over 10,000,000 cars per year. No wonder the Earth is getting shot to bits!! Those politically correct nongs that shouted down reducing population are by their own hands going to get the result they didnt want. The Earth will look like Mars by 3000


let say you are right - so as an Australian, I do not think we are overpopulating - let me ask you, do you think the countries like India, China, holding over 1/3 of Earths popultion give a potato? - nope, nor do any other countries in Africa, Americas (except probabpy Canada), Russia, Asia - so, the 25 million of us in this large small country with some other consciencious EU nations will solve all of Earths problems if we change our habits in this country? Nope, and when food runs out and territory runs out, the Chinese and any other country will go to war to take away land from countries "that care so much" - histry repeats itself and I think our children have other things to worry about that running out of food....To have any dent in these theories and the only way to do it is to change fundemntal human behaviour - good luck with that one.

sirgallivant
NSW, 1407 posts
13 Feb 2019 1:15AM
Thumbs Up

"Ede, bibe, lude,
Post mortem nulla voluptas."

It is fun to read the classics, they penned down two thousand years ago what is news for most of us today!

Trek
NSW, 830 posts
13 Feb 2019 7:58AM
Thumbs Up

Hi Seebreazy you are right, those countries dont give a ratz. I used our little backwater Sydney as an example of whats happening world wide. I wish the care agencies would hand out birth control because it would prevent the growing starvation and disease problem before it started (Im an MSF field partner and I wish we did) . At one stage I think somewhere one did but they got shouted down as unethical. Like China and their one child policy. They should have stuck to it. Whats even more ridiculous is the TV stations, such as 7 and 9 place a lot more importance on a loser football player getting busted for drink driving than they do about the planet running out of food and water

Seebreasy73
QLD, 318 posts
13 Feb 2019 10:44PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
sirgallivant said..
"Ede, bibe, lude,
Post mortem nulla voluptas."

It is fun to read the classics, they penned down two thousand years ago what is news for most of us today!



all I say: in vino veritas, sirgallivant! Repeticio est mater studiorum - and that is what I remember from my latin classes from my childhood. And do not ask me about the Greek ones - yupp, some time ago when we had to read Homer, the Illiad and all those Greek teaching tales as they were written in their own languages. Like I said, history repeats iself....well, eventually

Seebreasy73
QLD, 318 posts
13 Feb 2019 10:48PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Trek said..
Hi Seebreazy you are right, those countries dont give a ratz. I used our little backwater Sydney as an example of whats happening world wide. I wish the care agencies would hand out birth control because it would prevent the growing starvation and disease problem before it started (Im an MSF field partner and I wish we did) . At one stage I think somewhere one did but they got shouted down as unethical. Like China and their one child policy. They should have stuck to it. Whats even more ridiculous is the TV stations, such as 7 and 9 place a lot more importance on a loser football player getting busted for drink driving than they do about the planet running out of food and water


well, let's hope for the best and stop watching TV!

sirgallivant
NSW, 1407 posts
15 Feb 2019 1:10AM
Thumbs Up

"Historia est magistra vitae."???
No! I don't think so, not any more! Not ecologically!
Nobody ever imagined, let alone seen, yet, what is coming. And l'm not even a pessimist.



Subscribe
Reply

Forums > Sailing General


"Is it really late to save ourselves?" started by sirgallivant