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Old Furling System

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Created by Zigeuner 1 month ago, 16 Jan 2019
Zigeuner
22 posts
16 Jan 2019 11:10AM
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Hi all,
I have a siezed old furler on my boat. Does anyone know what type it is and how to pull it apart?






fishmonkey
NSW, 379 posts
16 Jan 2019 4:16PM
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i haven't dismantled it yet, but we have exactly the same old unit on our boat.

would love to know more about it before i do a full service on it.

do you find that the furling line is prone to jamming on the drum?

Zigeuner
22 posts
17 Jan 2019 11:09AM
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Mine is fully seized so i dont know

samsturdy
NSW, 1326 posts
17 Jan 2019 2:36PM
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Looks like the one that guy in QLD used to make a few years ago. There was a complaint that the rope used to fall off the drum.
But they were not supposed to seize because they had nylon bearings...so it can't be one of his.

rumblefish
TAS, 671 posts
17 Jan 2019 2:57PM
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Ok, steps as follows
- undo lock nut under drum
- undo screws holding foil to torque tube (this is the larger tube connecting drum to foil). Get someone (or a halyard) to hold to weight of the foil while doing this as the foil should drop a few inches once screws out.
- you then should be able to raise drum and see bottom of the foil

I would reckon there is some sort of nylon bearing between the bottom of the foil and the too if the swage, they usually bugger up and jam.

Alternatively, you've got an ancient bit if kit there that's never going to be great, replace with the best
www.almasts.com.au/furling-systems/

rumblefish
TAS, 671 posts
17 Jan 2019 2:57PM
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Select to expand quote
samsturdy said..
Looks like the one that guy in QLD used to make a few years ago. There was a complaint that the rope used to fall off the drum.
But they were not supposed to seize because they had nylon bearings...so it can't be one of his.


That was a promise he couldn't keep ;)

frant
VIC, 1216 posts
17 Jan 2019 4:12PM
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Select to expand quote
rumblefish said..
Ok, steps as follows
- undo lock nut under drum
- undo screws holding foil to torque tube (this is the larger tube connecting drum to foil). Get someone (or a halyard) to hold to weight of the foil while doing this as the foil should drop a few inches once screws out.
- you then should be able to raise drum and see bottom of the foil

I would reckon there is some sort of nylon bearing between the bottom of the foil and the too if the swage, they usually bugger up and jam.

Alternatively, you've got an ancient bit if kit there that's never going to be great, replace with the best
www.almasts.com.au/furling-systems/



Mmmmm how will one undo seized lock nut underdrum.
how will one undo super seized screws holding foil to torque tube
with what should one bash the drum to get it to move on the foil?
think it's time for a new furler. And forestay

oldboyracer
NSW, 204 posts
17 Jan 2019 4:48PM
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Very similar to my early almast furler , mine has a nylon "bearing" which is just a sleeve over the forstay. At the top of the forestay mine has a fitting about 15 mm above the extrusion to allow the whole assembly to lift up and down slightly . If yours is the same try tapping it GENTLY upwards to see if it's just gummed up with salt or rust. To get my furler off it has to go up the forstay and to do so the rivets holding the extrusion together have to be removed . Hope this helps .

rumblefish
TAS, 671 posts
17 Jan 2019 5:18PM
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Select to expand quote
frant said..

rumblefish said..
Ok, steps as follows
- undo lock nut under drum
- undo screws holding foil to torque tube (this is the larger tube connecting drum to foil). Get someone (or a halyard) to hold to weight of the foil while doing this as the foil should drop a few inches once screws out.
- you then should be able to raise drum and see bottom of the foil

I would reckon there is some sort of nylon bearing between the bottom of the foil and the too if the swage, they usually bugger up and jam.

Alternatively, you've got an ancient bit if kit there that's never going to be great, replace with the best
www.almasts.com.au/furling-systems/




Mmmmm how will one undo seized lock nut underdrum.
how will one undo super seized screws holding foil to torque tube
with what should one bash the drum to get it to move on the foil?
think it's time for a new furler. And forestay


Heat might work for locknut, impact screwdriver for torque tube ones.
If foil and drum don't move after undoing those, a halyard to lift drum might work?

jbear
NSW, 67 posts
17 Jan 2019 8:06PM
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I have the same furler on a Swanson 38 .I can't remember who made them but they were manufactured in Brookvale by memory .
i serviced it as it had seized due to lack of use 3 years ago. Really basic two moving parts the drum and the sleave/ male bearing witch sits on the lock nut and passes inside the drum.Over time the two alloy parts get dirt etc in them lock together and need to be released. I used the halyard and attached it to the drum to take the weight of the furler and wound the forstay and backstay and worked the sleave loose.Bit of grease and that is it in a nut shell .
They are a very basic and simple and work . this one is 36 years old and works a treat.Laurie Mitchell Sails and Swansons used them for that reason .
Bear

saintpeter
VIC, 76 posts
17 Jan 2019 8:51PM
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WD 40 !! And plenty of it !! After a good soak, will often undo with an impact driver.

fishmonkey
NSW, 379 posts
17 Jan 2019 9:02PM
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Select to expand quote
jbear said..

I have the same furler on a Swanson 38


howdy, what type and size of line do you use with yours?

frant
VIC, 1216 posts
17 Jan 2019 10:27PM
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Select to expand quote
rumblefish said..

frant said..


rumblefish said..
Ok, steps as follows
- undo lock nut under drum
- undo screws holding foil to torque tube (this is the larger tube connecting drum to foil). Get someone (or a halyard) to hold to weight of the foil while doing this as the foil should drop a few inches once screws out.
- you then should be able to raise drum and see bottom of the foil

I would reckon there is some sort of nylon bearing between the bottom of the foil and the too if the swage, they usually bugger up and jam.

Alternatively, you've got an ancient bit if kit there that's never going to be great, replace with the best
www.almasts.com.au/furling-systems/





Mmmmm how will one undo seized lock nut underdrum.
how will one undo super seized screws holding foil to torque tube
with what should one bash the drum to get it to move on the foil?
think it's time for a new furler. And forestay



Heat might work for locknut, impact screwdriver for torque tube ones.
If foil and drum don't move after undoing those, a halyard to lift drum might work?


Someone has already had a go at loosening the screws and mangled the slots. Those screws are locked in such that the force required to loosen the screw is less than the rotational shear force of the screw. If enough torque can be applied to the head then the head will shear off before the bolt unscrews. This will be irrespective of the amount of heat and WD49 applied in situ. It is buggered.

southace
QLD, 3899 posts
17 Jan 2019 10:28PM
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Select to expand quote
frant said..

rumblefish said..


frant said..



rumblefish said..
Ok, steps as follows
- undo lock nut under drum
- undo screws holding foil to torque tube (this is the larger tube connecting drum to foil). Get someone (or a halyard) to hold to weight of the foil while doing this as the foil should drop a few inches once screws out.
- you then should be able to raise drum and see bottom of the foil

I would reckon there is some sort of nylon bearing between the bottom of the foil and the too if the swage, they usually bugger up and jam.

Alternatively, you've got an ancient bit if kit there that's never going to be great, replace with the best
www.almasts.com.au/furling-systems/






Mmmmm how will one undo seized lock nut underdrum.
how will one undo super seized screws holding foil to torque tube
with what should one bash the drum to get it to move on the foil?
think it's time for a new furler. And forestay




Heat might work for locknut, impact screwdriver for torque tube ones.
If foil and drum don't move after undoing those, a halyard to lift drum might work?



Someone has already had a go at loosening the screws and mangled the slots. Those screws are locked in such that the force required to loosen the screw is less than the rotational shear force of the screw. If enough torque can be applied to the head then the head will shear off before the bolt unscrews. This will be irrespective of the amount of heat and WD49 applied in situ. It is buggered.


Or maybe drill them out and re tap.

gwiongwion
9 posts
18 Jan 2019 4:57AM
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Select to expand quote
Zigeuner said..
Mine is fully seized so i dont know




Looks like my Reefit system A (no longer made) by Almast.
Is it the halyard return model with the halyard block on the top extrusion and no top swivel? I dismantled mine a few time including removal of the BIG screw in the centre of the drum , marked DO NOT REMOVE in the manual.

A couple of things can cause it to jamb, but its so simple , easy to fix.

If the compression starts to elongate the holes that attach the extrusion then any small downward movement binds on the central axle.
Eventually the ring of plastic ball bearings (1/4 inch) collapse and then the axel corrodes to the drum.

The axel with these bearings is accessed by removal of the BIG SCREW in the centre of the drum and sliding the drum upwards leaving the axel behind.

Performing this procedure in situ result in the loss of a lot of the plastic ball bearings. :)
Speaking from experience. :)
You need to undo the 3 screws holding the rope guide before doing this.
This also allows access to the lock nut on the topside of the rope guide plate.

jbear
NSW, 67 posts
18 Jan 2019 3:28PM
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Fishmonkey 10mm and the angle the line comes off the drum must be right or it will tangle .
cheers

fishmonkey
NSW, 379 posts
18 Jan 2019 4:15PM
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Select to expand quote
jbear said..
Fishmonkey 10mm and the angle the line comes off the drum must be right or it will tangle .
cheers


thanks for the info. our furling line is running through the attached stainless steel lead. with a new line and careful attention to keeping some tension on everything it is okay, but it's pretty unforgiving and prone to overriding turns on the drum.

if you could post a photo of your lead setup sometime that would be grand.

jbear
NSW, 67 posts
18 Jan 2019 5:41PM
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Fishmonkey
You can see the furler rope lying on the deck (blue spec) port side it runs through five Harken blocks on the scuppers.
this gives you a basic idea on my set up.When l'm on her this weekend l'll take some detail photos
cheers

fishmonkey
NSW, 379 posts
18 Jan 2019 6:50PM
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thanks!

ours runs through a small turning block near the cockpit, then through two stanchion fairleads to the leader ring on the furler. i guess all blocks would be less friction.

i'm especially curious about the entry point and angle of your line near the furler drum...

jbear
NSW, 67 posts
19 Jan 2019 4:37PM
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HiFishmonkey From the drum to the first block is about 3 m hope these help








fishmonkey
NSW, 379 posts
29 Jan 2019 1:08AM
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thanks! the feed angle into the drum looks very similar to our setup.

i'm curious to know how freely a well-maintained system should spin...

LooseChange
NSW, 1857 posts
29 Jan 2019 9:11AM
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www.almasts.com.au/furling-systems/

jbear
NSW, 67 posts
29 Jan 2019 5:58PM
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Hi Fishmonkey
Im cutter rigged with a yankee on the furler , and one tug and it flows out with no problems. I haven't touched it in 3 years ,its all about using it otherwise it will seize !
Just a very basic simple furler that works


fishmonkey
NSW, 379 posts
30 Jan 2019 8:16AM
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thanks for the info. unfurling the sail is fine, it's the furling that is often quite difficult. it is a big Genoa though.

i reckon i'll try some small blocks instead of the fairleads and see if that helps.

fishmonkey
NSW, 379 posts
3 Feb 2019 9:15AM
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i'm also curious about how you deal with controlling (or not being able to control) the halyard tension with this system?

jbear
NSW, 67 posts
3 Feb 2019 4:31PM
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Sir G re your message this is my staysail club boom set up ,the out haul passes through the out haul box to a 2:1 purchase in the boom and out the side of the boom to the black cleat in the picture.






Fishmonkey this is the downhaul set up on my furler again simple .

Zigeuner
22 posts
9 Feb 2019 3:25AM
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Thanks all. I freed it up using a combination of halyard and car jack




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"Old Furling System" started by Zigeuner